Talk:Encephalitis lethargica/Archive 1

book on this topic
Has anyone read the book Asleep: The Forgotten Epidemic that Remains One of Medicine's Greatest Mysteries, by Molly Caldwell Crosby? It might have some info that could go into this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.52.215.9 (talk) 21:41, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

The
The original author wrote:


 * This description was taken (with permission) from the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke.

-- Cyan 01:29, 13 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Salem Witch Trials
"It is also believed that in Salem witch trials the girls that were apparently bewitched could have possibly been affected by the disease. The visions of spirits could have been the double vision that is possible and the fits and tremors the girls experienced are all possible symptoms."

Anyone fancy supplying some references for this? If it's acceptable as true on face value alone(... ) then it should be re-written to reflect the fact that EL has been interpreted in such a way as to influence superstition/culture, and not just them thar Salem gurls... Geno-Supremo (talk) 19:00, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * Medical and psychological explanations of bewitchment has a mention of the theory with a reference. -Seventh Holy Scripture (talk) 20:08, 21 March 2008 (UTC)


 * I have deleted the suggestion that the girls from Salem were actually infected with this disease. With only one reference, and that by a historian, does not, in my opinion, make it worth mentioning.  12.148.235.4 (talk) 02:09, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

I have no qualms with leaving this in the article, but I'd really like to see some mention of reactions to the theory from other historians/those in the medical profession. I remember when this theory came out, it seemed to me that it was pretty briskly dismissed by a lot of people doing research in the field, but for the life of me I can't remember where I read that, over a decade ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.186.171.129 (talk) 23:26, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Pretty unreal. This is a medical condition that eventually caused catatonia and other neurologic damage rendering the patient mostly unable to participate in daily life. The Salem Witch Trials were instigated by people in full control of the their verbal capabilities, able to certainly accuse and single out at first vulnerable members of the community and when emboldened by success, more established members. Encephalitis lethargica? Hardly. Sociopathic behavior? Absolutely. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.190.185.238 (talk) 06:48, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

unclear sentence
The last sentence under "symptoms"--

' "Postencephalitic Parkinson's disease may develop after a bout of encephalitis, sometimes as long as a year after the illness."

--could either mean the symptom could start a year after the illness, or the symptom lasts for up to a year. It seems to be the first, so I'll edit the page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.193.15.198 (talk) 03:29, 7 January 2007 (UTC).

Preludes and nocturnes
In the first volume of Gaiman's Sandman, it is suggested that the disease was a result of the main character's imprisonment. I think that this ought to be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.74.226.48 (talk) 12:31, 14 July 2009 (UTC)

Size of epidemic?
The article should mention how large the epidemic 1915-1926 was. How many were affected, how many recovered fully, how many developed Parkinsonism? AxelBoldt (talk) 02:35, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know where to find the figures but yes, I agree with this. I came to the article looking for the scale. JohnHarris (talk) 19:31, 20 January 2014 (UTC)


 * AFAIK Flutrackers has the only info on the web. Here:   Good Luck!  Gandydancer (talk) 00:10, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Sleep Inversion
One of the mentioned symptoms is "sleep inversion" - what does that mean? Jedikaiti (talk) 19:23, 8 September 2010 (UTC)
 * it means a reversal of normal night(sleep)/day(wake) pattern of sleep/wake.UnderEducatedGeezer (talk) 05:29, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

"Umbrella" by Will Self
Not read yet, but reviews indicate that this disease is a major element of the plot. The book has been nominated for the 2012 Man-Booker fiction prize, and has been well-received in general. Nick wright61 (talk) 17:22, 13 September 2012 (UTC)

What does 'distal infection' mean?
I couldn't find the term in the cited reference. In Wiki section 'Cause' it says,: "...unlike H5N1 Bird Flu did not infect the brain, they propose that a distal infection might have provoked an autoimmune mediated destruction of dopaminergic neurons, while leaving no direct evidence of brain infection." UnderEducatedGeezer (talk) 05:02, 3 September 2015 (UTC)
 * Secondary, possibly?-- Auric   talk  21:21, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Edits of this day
Today, I substantially revised the content of the causes section, which in large part had summarized two primary reports, leading to the perception (based on the over-detailed attention paid to these), that there was preponderance of scientific/medical opinion fully in favour of an autoimmune etiology (which is not the case).

These two reports are still cited, but their main point is imply summarized—rather than presenting their one-primary-source findings and P values—and they are called out as primary sources in need of replacement by review or monograph perspectives.

In addition, the earlier content contained dead links (fixed), and it misrepresented a Vilensky citn as being favorable to the influenza hypothesis (when it was intact neutral to negative), a situation corrected by quoting from that article's abstract.

Finally, I will compile secondary sources in the Further reading, so further, future work can focus on the interpretations of published experts, and not begin to veer toward WP editor interpretations of emerging (not yet substantiated) primary literature.

Le Prof Leprof 7272 (talk) 16:51, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Pay Wall
In the further reading section, one of studies linked to is behind a pay wall. Is this allowed? It doesn't really seem fair. The study is "Vilensky, J.A.; Foley, P.; Gilman, S. (2007). "Children and Encephalitis Lethargica: A Historical Review". Pediatr. Neurol. 37 (2, August): 79–84. doi:10.1016/j.pediatrneurol.2007.04.012. . Retrieved 8 December 2015." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.199.53.2 (talk) 02:29, 11 April 2017 (UTC)

Inclusion of the "EL and EMR" hypothesis in the external Links
Hi, i would like to include an external link to the website "EL and EMR" wgich presents a scientific hypothesis on the possible involvement of radio waves in the epidemic of encephalitis lethargica.

I checked the wikipedia guidelines for external links and to include this website in the external links seems appropriate for the following reasons:

1. The link fits point 3 of the guidelines for links to be considered:

"Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues,[4] amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons."

In particular the site "EL and EMR" contains a lot of interesting information extracted from scientific sources.

2. The site does not violate the guidelines for "Links normally to be avoided"

My first inclusion of the link was deleted with the comment "pseudo science". Please let me therefore give a brief outline of the hypothesis to demonstrate that it is clearly a scientific, and not a pseudo-scientific, hypothesis:

a) Severe infection may lead to chronic pre-inflammatory conditions within the brain. This is a scientific fact and not a hypothesis.

b) The pre-inflammatory state entailed by severe infections can be amplified by the electric currents induced into the brain by radio waves. This either activates subclinical infections (e.g. the one done by the real encephalitis lethargica virus/bacterium) and in this way entails a real encephalitis. Or the induced electric currents amplify the pre-inflammatory state to a full-blown, so-called "sterile" encephalitis.

After the Britanica entry for "Scientific hypothesis": "The two primary features of a scientific hypothesis are falsifiability and testability, which are reflected in an “If…then” statement summarizing the idea and in the ability to be supported or refuted through observation and experimentation."

All parts of the hypothesis are testable and falsifiable, so it's a scientific hypothesis. Though, admittedly, an uncommon one.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Elandemr (talk • contribs) 22:23, 6 September 2018 (UTC)

I'm not trying to sound dismissive of this idea, but radio transmission was in it's infancy when this disease was described. I don't understand how it can be related. Aside from the technical problems with this, it just doesn't seem to pass the smell test as far as the science behind radio transmission goes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:387:0:80F:0:0:0:73 (talk) 06:27, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Society and Culture
The epidemic inspired how the story of Vertigo comic, Neil Gaiman's Sandman begins. In the first volume, the main protagonist, Morpheus, is captured by human antagonist. Lord and personification of dreams and inspiration of stories, his imprisonment prompt widespread infliction of Encephalitis lethargica in the fictional universe Morpheus influence. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Taesu19 (talk • contribs) 22:12, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

"Nellysa disease"
Nellysa disease (now trimmed) was added to the infobox in an inappropriate IP edit dating back to 2017 (diff). The phrase can currently also be found around the internet on findagrave.com and elsewhere. 86.138.231.127 (talk) 14:35, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

trimmed sourcing

 * 86.172.7.156 (talk) 14:46, 27 January 2021 (UTC)