Talk:Ender's Game (novel series)

Comments
The Ender's series was awesome. The second best series I've ever read, the first being The Alvin Maker series. The first of the series, Ender's Game, was by far the best of the series. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.240.64.66 (talk • contribs) 13:19, 21 September 2004‎ (UTC)

Ender's Game was truly spectacular, and Ender's Shadow is even more so. The 'Enderverse' as they call it, is a very cool world.

I think this page could use some editing. Maybe talk about the world, how the Russian Empire under the Second Warsaw Pact stretches from the Netherlands all the way to Pakistan, the inventions of the world such as the nuclear shield, and Dr. Device. The political situation on Earth in the Enderverse catches my eye and I'd like for this page to explain it at least a little. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.7.128.51 (talk • contribs) 23:11, 5 July 2005‎ (UTC)

16Feb06 - TDT
I removed the term 'space opera' from the opening line of the article, as science fiction is about people in general. I don't recall which, but one of the great science fiction founders was asked by his publisher to write a 'science fiction' story, when it hadn't even really emerged as a genre in the '30s or '40s. His reply was "I don't write about things, I write about people". His publisher's response was basically that that's exactly what he wanted him to write about...people and interractions between them, as that is what good writing is typically based on. The thing that made this science fiction writing was that the setting would be futuristic, or include then-non-existent inventions(if anyone can find a reference for this event, please mention it).

Hence when reading the 'Space Opera' entry that says: "It meant an action-oriented tale of space adventure instead of "respectable" science fiction story that concentrated on effects of technological progress and inventions" and that it "emphasizes romantic adventure, interstellar travel, and space battles where the main storyline is centered aroundinterstellar conflict and character drama", it seems it is definitely an errant term to begin with. If anything, it would be more appropriate to label science fiction that is more focused on "things" than people as something like techno-science-fiction, or dry-sci-fi, rather than apply the term to the style used by 99% of the writing in the genre

Hi i just noticed a book called "a point in time" in the listing of the books by chronological order. I would like to know more about it. I tried to search for it but I could not find anything. I would greatly appreciate any information on this book. Thank You  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.128.156.232 (talk) 06:13, 2 July 2012 (UTC)


 * Space Opera doesn't really have the strong negative connotation some apply to it. It is pooly defined though, and makes for interesting discussion. It seems to be used often in lieu of "science fiction fantasy", Star Wars being the actual standard. But it's true it only weakly applies to some things, and Ender's series has many elements of both science and fantasy.


 * The term you're looking for is "hard science fiction" - sf primarily about science rather than adventure. I doubt that 99% of science fiction is space opera, just the most visible stuff on the shelves. The above-quoted definition of space opera is correct: a better example would be the show "Babylon 5" or the Uplift series by David Brin. "Science fiction fantasy" implies a magical aspect to it, such as the Force in Star Wars, which isn't necessary in space opera.Pooneil 05:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I see no need to apply it if is questioned. --Shadow Puppet 14:14, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

UN

 * The Shadow series gives vauge mention of a spectacular end to the United Nations.

This is likely true, but I don't want ppl to think we are trying to imply a theme of hypothtical or fictional end to an evil UN. I'm going to look it up and reword this tonight. --Shadow Puppet 14:10, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Changes made 25-Mar-2006
Hi. I went to fix a one-letter typo in the article and ended up doing a whole bunch of changes, mostly to do with putting book titles in italics and short story titles in "double quotes", per Manual of Style (italics). There are still a few problems with the grammar. (I haven't read any of these books since Xenocide, so I can't comment on the content of the article.) Feel free to boldly edit my changes! —Chris Chittleborough 18:12, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Multiplicity of articles
There seems to be a tendency to generate new pages that discuss bits and pieces of the fictional creation related to this series. Usually, it is better if those pieces are merged into the main article. I have suggested one such example for merging. Rather than list them all, it makes more sense to just use the "What links here" as they all reference this page. NThurston 20:27, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Please see the following examples for the rebuttal to this argument: Category:Star Wars, Category:Star Trek, Category:The West Wing (TV series), Category:The Simpsons, etc etc etc. &mdash; Scm83x hook 'em 20:46, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm. I'd more or less agree -- it would seem preferable in many cases to have a series of redirects, if the majority of articles just end up being brief stubs. But in the particular case of the species categorization, I feel that particular idea might be notable enough to warrant its own article. The way I see it, it's not so much an issue of having too many articles, but more about whether those articles are fleshed out, could potentially be fleshed out, or are worthy ideas in their own light. Luna Santin 18:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Predators as Varelse
This is my first time to comment on Wikipedia, I hope I don't break any conventions. I don't want to jump in and start editing things, so I figured I'd put this as a question. The article mentions the movie monsters 'Aliens' and 'Predators' as varelse, impossible to communicate with or peacefully coexist with. Should Predators be included in this? At the end of Predator 2, the Predator chief gives Danny Glover's character an old pistol after he kills a Predator, and then leaves him in peace, and in Alien vs. Predator one of the Predators cooperates with the human woman against the Aliens. BaikinMan 03:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Heey. I'm pretty new, too. You bring up a good point. Reading that, I think it mentions Predators, but only specifically calls the Aliens varelse. Which seems right. I'll admit I'm not too familiar with the AvP (etc) series, but it seems the Aliens would fit far more readily into the category. The Predators may usually fight humans, but if a situation did arise where they had a mutual interest, I have little doubt that their ability to communicate with each other would prove useful. Maybe. That said, I'm not entirely comfortable with the mention... feels like it's just a plug, or worse, an implication that the Ender series needs to lean on AvP for legitimacy. Luna Santin 18:44, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

I've been thinking on it, and I believe that the text indicates that Predators are included as 'varelse,' so I've removed that portion of the article for the reasons I mentioned above, leaving only the 'Aliens.' BaikinMan 21:10, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, good point, just remove confusing phrase altogether. =3 I rewrote the sentence, just since it felt a bit awkward, syntax-wise. And also added a link to Xenomorphs, now that I did a little more reading up on this. Luna Santin 22:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Added graph
I just added a timeline graph. Any comments? MarkRofler 10:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Awesome graph, but now it needs "A War of Gifts" ... I haven't read it yet, so I can't really say where it fits in.128.187.0.164 17:27, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

Intergalactic Medicine Show
I am a little confused about the short stories from this webzine. On this wiki, it lists four short stories from the webzine, that are a part of the Enderverse. The first three are correct. But the fourth, listed as "Gloriously Bright", I can't seem to find anywhere. Is that indeed a short story from the webzine, set in the Enderverse? On top of that, according the webzine's official website, the fourth and fifth stories included in the fourth and fifth issues, respectively, are titled "A Young Man with Prospects" and "A Gold Bug". Yet these aren't listed. I admit that I haven't read the stories, so I didn't want to add/change them in the wiki entry. Anybody have any insight on these?

P.S. Yes, these books are great.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Lilscoy22 (talk • contribs) 14:55, 29 August 2007‎ (UTC)

just finished reading
what happens after he passes the end of the world? who is Enders speaker for the dead? is it ever explained to the people how he was tricked into xenocide and that he wasn't a bad person? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.111.213.212 (talk) 02:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

The movie
I would like to point out that there is now a movie in pre production based on Enders game and shadow to be directed by Wolfgang Petersen —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.144.4.89 (talk) 03:58, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Error in series flowchart
Will the original author/someone please fix the grocer's apostrophe in the title of "Shadows in Flight" on the flow chart? It currently reads "Shadow's in Flight," which is both erroneous and really unprofessional. XreDuex (talk) 18:32, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Also, am I mistaken, or is the flowchart missing "Ender in Exile"? --Lilscoy22 (talk) 18:12, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

Flowchart is Missing
I noticed the flowchart is missing. When you click on it, it says something about needing to replace the jpg with a vector graphic. However, right now, there simply is nothing on the page. Can anyone restore this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.160.119.251 (talk) 21:05, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

Single volume combining EG, SftD & short stories?
When I first read Ender's Game about three years ago, it was part of a volume that contained Ender's Game (novella & novel), Speaker for the Dead, and the short stories from First Meetings (The Polish Boy, Teacher's Pest, and The Investmemt Counsellor) -- all in one illustrated paperback collector's volume.

I hadn't heard of the book before, I just saw it at some supermarket (I remember it being on sale, for something like $4) and got it on a whim. I don't have it anymore, unfortunately, and now it's driving me insane as I can't seem to find it again.

Maybe my memory is deceiving me and I really bought three separate books, but that seems pretty unlikely -- I know I got it at that supermarket, and I wouldn't have bought three.

This is really bugging me now. Does anybody know which edition I'm talking about? (Sorry for abusing the talk page, but it's semi-relevant to the article.) 87.78.3.205 (talk) 01:54, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

"Shadow saga" / "Shadow series"
Currently, the Bean quartet is referred to as the "Shadow series" in several places, such as in the Orson Scott Card navigational template. However, the section heading in this article is "Shadow saga", which leads to lots of broken section links. This needs to be standardized, but in Googling I couldn't find any evidence as to which term is preferable. Does anyone know of evidence for either of these names? Princess Lirin (talk) 01:55, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

Flowchart?
I am not knowledgeable about adding material to Wikipedia, and trying to navigate the rules has proven to be akin to getting a college degree. I'm therefore restricting contributions to the non-article bits.

Though the idea of an Ender series chronology seems a necessary and good one - excuse bluntness - that Ender chronology "flowchart" thing is awful. Even though it's relatively large on the article page, it appears as a bunch of blurry lines conveying nothing and as such, wastes space. Even at 470x600 resolution on the image page it's decidedly fuzzy where the previous version was not.

At full resolution it's monochrome, spidery, aliased appearance is off putting. More importantly, on close observation the meaning is confused by the structure. It's unclear if it's supposed to depict relationships of publishing dates, or story chronology, or both. If someone like myself, conversant with the "Enderverse" finds it difficult to comprehend, it must be still more confusing to the uninitiated seeking information.

I already happen to be working on a straight forward but loose timeline for all the stories for use elsewhere. I would like to tighten it up, but as I've read only one short story (A War of Gifts) and my knowledge of the novels, though I've read all published so far, is not finely grained enough to know precisely when each takes place relevant to the others, I'm currently unable to do so.

I'm searching for the relevant information with only limited success and not enough time to delve too deeply. Were I provided the information, or a source thereof, I could complete the graphic and make it available here as a rights-free SVG.

Deinonychus rex (talk) 09:10, 9 May 2010 (UTC)

Missing novel?
I remember seeing on the bookshelves a novel called "Peter", about a year or so after "Children of the Mind" was published and long predating the "Shadow" series. It is a very clear memory. I did not buy it at the time, however (I was poor!), and I have rued it ever since -- for it seems to have vanished without trace. I have tried several conventional searches, but you can imagine what happens when I try to search for any combination of Ender Scott Card + novel + Peter. I do know that Card is prone to rewriting old works -- the new version of "Ender's Game" is rather different in places from the original novel version. (I own both.) But where would one look for a vanished novel? - Tenebris —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.254.157.107 (talk) 02:49, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Formic terminology
When was the term 'Formics' introduced to the series? I read Ender's Game for the first time a few months ago, and just finished Speaker for the Dead, and I don't remember the term being in either book. My memory is far from flawless, however, but this seems like the sort of thing I'd remember: I don't like the term 'bugger' (where I grew up it was slang for 'sodomy'). Phlegat (talk) 16:42, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It was introduced in Ender's Shadow. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.87.147.188 (talk) 01:31, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Governments in the Enderverse and Short Stories
I am moving the information in the Governments in the Enderverse to List_of_Ender's_Game_series_organizations. IMO it is out of place on the main Ender (series) page and would be better suited on the Ender organizations page. I am also clearing away the lists of short stories and moving any information that is not on List_of_Ender's_Game_series_short_stories to that page. If anyone thinks that these moves aren't worthy, discuss it here or just change it, I don't care that much, just trying to make it look nicer. Have a good one! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.22.24.100 (talk • contribs) 19:38, 7 February 2012‎ (UTC)

A Point in Time
In the chronological listings of works in the Ender saga, there is a listing for one "A Point in Time". Thus far, I have seen no evidence that such a work exists and, indeed, it is not in the list of works by publication date. Obviously, "A Point in Time" is a rather tough phrase to Google (though better than Peter as a contributor above mentions, another book I would be curious to see if anyone has further info on such a book), but I am inclined to believe that no such work exists due to the simple fact that targeted searches for "orson scott card"+"a point in time"+"ender" among others yield no truly promising results (just one librarything entry claiming a copy). Any more info if such work even exists? Irc.limerick (talk) 07:56, 2 July 2012 (UTC)

The Formic Wars series
Should the Formic Wars books be separted from or left in the Ender's saga? - Dracuns (talk) 14:11, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Anton's Key
Why does a search for Anton's Key redirect to this page, when this article makes no direct mention of it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.219.116.120 (talk) 20:54, 13 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Because there's no better place for it to redirect to. Ollieinc (talk) 03:59, 14 February 2014 (UTC)


 * Anton's Key should redirect to Bean (Ender's Game) since it's a concept introduced in the Shadow series and pertains mainly to his character. -AngusWOOF (talk) 13:46, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, it could redirect to Anton himself over at List of Ender's Game characters where it can be bolded. -AngusWOOF (talk) 19:53, 25 April 2014 (UTC)

Earth Afire
I could be very much mistaken, but according to both Amazon and the Barnes N' Noble websites, Earth Afire doesn't release until April 29th, 2014, not June 4th, 2013. This is the publication date that I have seen on both Wiki articles that I have read concerning this book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Afire and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ender's_Game_(series)) and so I was very confused when I went to go looking for where I can purchase it and discovered that it is only available for pre-order on both Amazon and Barnes N' Noble right now. Can someone please fix this so that it is less confusing and less misleading? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.243.211.122 (talk) 02:12, 23 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The June 4, 2013 date is for the Hardcover, and April 29, 2014 is for the Mass Market Paperback, so both are valid. -AngusWOOF (talk) 13:51, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Notion of Prequel Trilogies and Sequel Trilogies
How about the notion of trilogies in the Enderverse?
 * 1) the three first sequels (Speaker of the Dead, Xenocide and Children of the Mind) are commonly regarded as a trilogy (it's mentioned in the section Ender Series as Speaker Trilogy.
 * 2) both the Formic Wars Series are regarded as prequel-trilogies (cfr. tweet of OSC : The Second Formic Wars trilogy titles released: The Swarm; The Hive; The Queens.
 * 3) however, the first three sequels to Ender's Shadow, are very rarely referenced as a trilogy.

Which is, since there are two more shadow sequels written/planned, not that particular, although the Bean-series was once planned to be limited to four books. And both Shadows in Flight and the forthcoming Shadows Alive are somehow seperated from the three first sequels (Shadow of the Hegemon, Shadow Puppets and Shadow of the Giant).

In summary, I find it quite stunning that the Enderverse is not mentioned as having four Trilogies, both:
 * Two Sequel Trilogies:
 * The Speaker Trilogy
 * The Shadow Trilogy
 * Two Prequel Trilogies:
 * First Formic Wars Trilogy
 * Second Formic Wars Trilogy

Any thoughts whether it'is worthwile as an entry (in a more substantive form)? Clockworkske (talk) 22:04, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Book 20 is Shadows of Fight
Book 20 will probably be Shadows of Fight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1001:B010:1EB3:94C:D8C5:21A7:1369 (talk) 21:53, 3 August 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 12 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved ʍaɦʋɛօtʍ (talk) 23:36, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

Ender's Game (series) → Ender's Game (book series) – per WP:CRITERIA No.1 and No.2 and per the category which says Category:Series of books. Rightly or wrongly since (series) alone on Wikipedia is de facto used by WP Video games to mean (video game series) and is the expected meaning of (series) here. For comparison we are clear with (TV series), hence here (book series). This is being picked as a typical franchise book series article - although one where video game development is "on indefinite hold". In ictu oculi (talk) 21:24, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Please note as per this discussion Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games the video game WikiProject never claimed exclusivity to the sole use of series not did anyone else agree with the claim that the primary use of series was TV series.--67.68.21.146 (talk) 23:30, 12 November 2017 (UTC)
 * No the WP Video games project never claimed exclusivity, but given that WP Television uses (TV series) for TV series, the de facto result of WP Video games project's decision to use just (series) instead of (video games series) and the large number of video games series articles is that the expected meaning of (series) across en.Wikipedia is invariably by default (video game series), ...that's what's causing a knock on effect here with a much rarer (book series) article. The proposal here is to improve recognizability (see WP:CRITERIA) that this is a book series not a video game series based on Ender's Game. In ictu oculi (talk) 08:27, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose I'm not sure why the opinion of WP Video games matters here. power~enwiki ( π, ν ) 06:21, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * It doesn’t and even if it did it would be irrelevant since the link In my last comment clearly shows that the WikiProject never held such and opinion in the first place.--67.68.21.146 (talk) 06:47, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Oppose - The content of the article is more accurately described as Ender's Game (franchise) as the content covers many forms of media (comics, film, manga). Barring that, then the current title is sufficient. Even better might be to move to Ender's Game as a WP:CONCEPTDAB and merge/eliminate Ender's Game (disambiguation) which only has content related to this franchise (current article on the self-titled book can be moved to Ender's Game (novel). This is similar to how we recently handled Knight Rider where the franchise now holds the primary topic.. -- Netoholic @  11:40, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * that is actually a better suggestion that the proposed move, and a neat way of solving the meaningless "(series)" dab. In ictu oculi (talk) 13:41, 13 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Indeed, it would be neat to first move the novel to Ender's Game (novel), to free up the primary topic to be held by the franchise. Clockworkske (talk) 14:04, 13 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 20 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved. There is no evidence here that the novel – which is the subject of the article at Ender's Game – isn't the primary topic of the term. ErikHaugen (talk &#124; contribs) 17:52, 30 November 2017 (UTC) ErikHaugen (talk &#124; contribs) 17:52, 30 November 2017 (UTC)

Ender's Game (series) → Ender's Game – As proposed in the move request by for the page Ender%27s_Game_(series), where the following suggestion for merge/elimination was done by


 * Even better might be to move to Ender's Game as a WP:CONCEPTDAB and merge/eliminate Ender's Game (disambiguation) which only has content related to this franchise (current article on the self-titled book can be moved to Ender's Game (novel).

Indeed, all 5 links on the disambiguation page are also available on the page for the book series (apart from the book series of course)
 * Ender's Game is a 1985 novel by Orson Scott Card.
 * Ender's Game may also refer to:
 * Ender's Game (short story), a 1977 story by Orson Scott Card
 * Ender's Game (series), a series of science fiction books by Orson Scott Card (note: this page is no longer restricted to only books)
 * Ender's Game (comics), a series of comic book adaptations of the novels by Orson Scott Card
 * Ender's Game (film), a 2013 film based on the novel

Suggestions:
 * 1) Move Ender's Game to Ender's Game (novel)
 * 2) Move Ender's Game (series) to Ender's Game
 * Merge/elemination of Ender's Game (disambiguation)

Results:
 * 1) Dedicated page for the novel (with the annotation _(novel)
 * 2) Dedicated page for the series/franchise (for all media related to the franchise: short stories, novels, comic book adaptations, audio play, film, ...)
 * 3) No longer a disambiguation page, as the series/franchise page already has all links for disambiguation:
 * Ender's Game, the franchise based on the science fiction book by Orson Scott Card (page moved from Ender's Game (series))
 * Ender's Game (short story), a 1977 short story by Orson Scott Card
 * Ender's Game (novel), a 1985 novel by Orson Scott Card (page moved from Ender's Game)
 * Ender's Game (comics), a series of comic book adaptations of the novels by Orson Scott Card
 * Ender's Game (film), a 2013 film based on the novel

Clockworkske (talk) 14:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Support When a franchise crosses several types of media as this one does, it becomes more valuable to use the primary topic as a WP:CONCEPTDAB when the main title is shared among them. In this case, "Ender's Game" is ambiguous as one could just as frequently be referring to the short story, or the novel, or the film, or the comic, or broadly as a reference to the entire series. In this case we also gain the benefit of removing a largely redundant Ender's Game (disambiguation) page which illustrates that every related media could make claim to the primary topic.  Please see the recent precedent at Talk:Knight Rider for a similar scenario. -- Netoholic @  21:31, 22 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose I agree the disambiguation page is unnecessary, but the novel is far and away the primary topic for the title. I believe the best approach would be to leave the articles where they are, delete the dab page, and use hatnotes at the novel's article. James (talk/contribs) 10:26, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I agree with James that the novel is still far and away the primary topic. There would need to be some pretty compelling evidence to disabuse me of that notion and I don't see that any has been provided so far. Jenks24 (talk) 15:13, 28 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

External links modified (January 2018)
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