Talk:Endorsements in the 2012 Republican Party presidential primaries

Help! I have no idea what I'm doing!
If anyone is good with HTML and tables, I have data from multiple sources on this. Every candidate's campaign page has endorsements, but a lot of those are celebrities and commentators who would clutter this table tremendously. I want to distinguish the early states from the rest of the states, as I intend to include all the other states that have endorsed candidates.-- Sc r ew ba ll 23 talk 02:52, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

http://race42012.com/2011/09/20/endorsement-chart-920-update/

http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/09/23/romney-leads-endorsement-race/


 * Alright, I like this idea and I want to help out. Let's brainstorm some default categories to use for endorsers, such as Elected Officials, Business Leaders, Celebrities/Pundits, and Other? I think having a defined set of categories is important to readability. Then we should transition every candidate to its own (collapsible, sortable) table, which I think I can easily throw together when we're ready. Then we can finalize the structure, fix the Contents table, and make it perfect.


 * Finally, we should decide on a designation for current v. withdrawn candidates as we approach primary season. Maybe a separate section when the first candidate withdraws, and in each section sort candidates by last name. Or maybe a color? Thoughts? --&rarr; talk page ( JakeBathman ) 15:55, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Um...Are we, or are we not, including state senators and reps?? I think it would be good if we could, but the feasibility of such an endeavor is questionable at best. Thoughts? Light-jet pilot (talk) 21:44, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I don't see the wisdom of having this page
We have endorsements in the candidate's own articles, and they're more thorough as well. This is just a repeat of what we did in their articles. So this should either be deleted or just link to the candidate's campaign pages as more information would inevitably be there. J390 (talk) 23:50, 4 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Exactly. We should have a centralized place for all the endorsements, and this will be the one. A lot of the candidate pages are way too disorganized and they list every single endorser and their mother. It's about time we set a place where things are standardized. I don't agree with letting a campaign page have every single endorsement they've ever achieved. A lot of pages are loaded with non-notable endorsements.-- Sc r ew ba ll 23 talk 05:08, 5 November 2011 (UTC)

I agree. We need one place to see all the endorsements, rather than looking up all the candidates pages. Light-jet pilot (talk) 13:13, 5 November 2011 (UTC)


 * But an endorsement is notable if a recognizable figure or state senator endorses a person. I haven't noticed too much of a problem with non-notable endorsements on the pages. J390 (talk) 20:09, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * To me, it's the convenience of having all the major ones in one place. Light-jet pilot (talk) 20:28, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * J390, I beg to differ. Let's remember that state senators and assemblymembers greatly outnumber house reps and senators. Many of them don't even have wikipedia pages, and their endorsements are verified only by links to candidate websites. To argue that those caliber of endorsements are notable and influential is absolutely not true. In theory the campaign pages would work okay, but the reality of the situation is, people edit candidates that they gravitate towards, and I've seen enough politicking on wikipedia to know this is true. That creates a push for endorsements that are unnotable and uninfluential, if only for the simple reason that an editor wanted to promote a candidate. That's not fair, and it should be a priority to create a standard practice for listing endorsements. Call me crazy for being such a stickler, but I noticed already that the Ron Paul campaign put Sonny Purdue as an endorser, when he actually endorsed Gingrich. Errors like that would not occur if we avoided the individual pages, which are too insular. I also want to preserve the history of the endorsements, as I expect a large shift to occur when the nomination is won. This page is not unprecedented too, I might add, as there was a page from 2008, Congressional endorsements for the 2008 United States presidential election, and McCain and Obama both have wikipedia pages dedicated entirely to their endorsements as well (again, for what reason, is beyond me, but the information is available - and should be available - for anyone to find.)-- Sc r ew ba ll 23 talk 04:04, 6 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should have self-endorsements. J390 (talk) 03:01, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree, it looks weird in hindsight. I will keep it now because these candidates will bow out of the race and endorse someone else eventually, so it is useful to leave it to build on later. If you still disagree, let me know what you would like to do with it now. Overall, I hope we're on the same page now about this wikipedia page?-- Sc r ew ba ll 23 talk 03:11, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Self-endorsement and future changes
With regards to self-endorsements, maybe we could set up a table for former candidate endorsements. This could mirror the contents of the USPE Withdrawn Candidates subsection as far as whom to include. Right now, it would just have Pawlenty (endorses Romney) and as candidates withdraw and give their endorsement we'll add them. Thoughts? --→ talk page ( JakeBathman ) 22:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Also, Bachmann, Gingrich, Paul and Perry will, assuming none of them quits, be appointed unpledged delegates to the nominating convention next summer. That could mean including such self-endorsements under the headings of current Governor and Representative, if they're selected as their state's at-large or "bonus" delegate. But, in the long run, it could prove actually important to include.--&rarr; talk page ( JakeBathman ) 22:06, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Fixing Vandalism
Someone has deleted the "Romney" section, which is probably unhelpful. It happened between 50 and 100 edits ago. Anyone know how to fix this? Cheers. Jamesofengland (talk) 05:33, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe it was because, at the time, we had decided not to include state senators and representatives, and that should be all that was deleated. Light-jet pilot (talk) 13:27, 9 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Is there a reason that this principle applied to Romney, but not to Gingrich, Bachmann or Huntsman?Jamesofengland (talk) 21:47, 10 November 2011 (UTC)
 * None that I know of. I noticed this too, but I was trying (per post above) to get suggestions on whether or not there was a feasible way to include all the state level endorsements before I took action on it. (I didn't remove Romney's) Light-jet pilot (talk) 00:09, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Based on precedent with these types of pages, it may be helpful to include such endorsements for all candidates. I like the direction this article is moving now, but we should come up with a better way to define the "Tier" system and just go with it.--&rarr; talk page ( JakeBathman ) 16:49, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Tags
Can we remove the Notability and Update tags, since I'm working practicly every day on this page, and the notability has already been debated?(see above) Light-jet pilot (talk) 20:32, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * As long as there are empty sections, the article is not good enough for Wikipedia and should be updated. Night of the Big Wind  talk  20:47, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That's what I'm working on. What about the Notability one? Light-jet pilot (talk) 20:50, 15 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't really see how this article needs a copyedit.--Slon02 (talk) 01:34, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Task List for this article
Alright, I really like this article and want it to be really good. So I want to create a Task List for us to get it all in order before primary season really starts. Feel free to edit this to add anything you think needs to be done, and when something is completed give it a good strike through and sign your name after the task, if you'd like. This will give anyone wanting to edit the page somewhere to start, and a bite-sized task to accomplish. --→ talk page ( JakeBathman ) 20:32, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Task List

 * 1) Update endorsement lists in Tier 3 section into one table, as is started at the beginning of the section. [Goal: Dec. 15] Light-jet pilot (talk) 03:18, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 2) Complete the state representative lists.[Goal: Jan. 28]
 * 3) Copy edit the intro paragraph, adding citations or editing out ambiguous stuff (such as "Political scientists debate the importance and influence that endorsements have..."). [Goal: Dec. 22] (talk) 14:26, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 4) Add citations for all endorsements, and try to find the date of endorsement. Add both to appropriate column in table. [Goal: Dec. 31]
 * 5) Compile list of sites that track endorsements, and list below. This is for our reference only, and shouldn't be used as citations. [Goal: ongoing]
 * 6) Study other Wikipedia endorsement pages, and list them below. Maybe we can learn something from their structure and what they look like after the election has ended. [Goal: ongoing]
 * 7) Properly deprecate endorsement listings for withdrawn candidates. I'm not sure how this should be done, especially since an endorsement from someone may change as that person leaves the race. [Goal: Dec. 31] Light-jet pilot (talk) 03:27, 20 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 8) Add section for non-person endorsements (maybe?). These could include organizations and newspapers, and will be good to track as primary season heats up. [Goal: Dec 31]

Again, feel free to add as needed. Let's make this article great!

Other Wikipedia endorsement article examples

 * Obama 2008 endorsements
 * Romney 2008 Endorsements
 * Newspaper endorsements in 2008 primaries
 * Newspaper endorsements in 2008 general election (this is where the summary table on this article came from).

External sites that track or discuss endorsements
Again, these sites should be used for editors' reference only, and shouldn't be considered citation-worthy (lest we have an article littered with a single citation). This will just help us keep track of new endorsements.
 * Race 4 2012 blog: http://race42012.com/category/endorsements-of-2008-presidential-candidates/ (not a central list, but category of blog posts)
 * P2012 site, many with citations (although many are to press releases from the candidate's campaign): http://www.p2012.org/candidates/natendorse.html
 * CQ Roll Call tracking list for Congressional members: http://innovation.cq.com/pub/table/index.php?id=69
 * Good place for candidate-sorted info/articles (not just endorsement stuff): http://www.politico.com/2012-election/
 * NYT GOP Candidate info; lots of good, compiled info to help finding citations/endorsements: http://elections.nytimes.com/2012/primaries/candidates

Tiers
Where does the concept of Tiers come from?Naraht (talk) 22:45, 21 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Me. I forget where I've seen it before, but it seemed the logical order of importance. Light-jet pilot (talk) 16:16, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, and it may make sense to list them in that order, but I think actually assigning them 1,2 & 3 is WP:OR.Naraht (talk) 17:12, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I can kinda see what your saying. What do you mean, "1, 2 & 3"? Could you give me an example? Light-jet pilot (talk) 04:55, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Governor Nathan Deal's endorsement of Newt
I know it's been confirmed Governor Deal endorsed Gingrich, but the date of the entry cited, January 2011, was made before the race started. Endorsements only count if made during the election, when a person is running. We need to get a source of him officially endorsing him. So I changed it to his official endorsement. J390 (talk) 03:00, 10 February 2012 (UTC)

Deletion Tag
I am removing the deletion tag and the update tag, as I, and a few others, have been updating this page regularly for the past few months. The endorsements for candidates who are no longer running are clearly for the historical purpose you referenced. As for the number of endorsements, we have kept it to three groups of people and will not be including the "thousands of local endorsements". Now, it is true that many politians change their endorsement to the winner at the convention, but we always include their original endorsement for the above stated "historical purpose". There are similar pages to this one for the 2008 elections, and the relevance of this page has already been discussed (and dismissed) in this talk page. I am not saying you are wrong, I am simply removing the tag, and stating my defence. I welcome further input. Respectfully,Light-jet pilot (talk) 04:06, 14 February 2012 (UTC)

Eric Cantor
I saw on the news last night that Eric Cantor was endorsing someone, but whom? Bearian (talk) 16:40, 5 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Mitt Romney. I have the info, but I'm working on 6 different things at once, so it might be another few hours before I can get it on here. Light-jet pilot (talk) 17:32, 5 March 2012 (UTC)

Juliette Lewis
http://www.politico.com/blogs/click/2012/01/juliette-lewis-rooting-for-ron-paul-110481.html Is it valid? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.21.40.248 (talk) 21:20, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Yep. I'll add it. Thanks. Light-jet pilot (talk) 21:54, 25 March 2012 (UTC)

Adding to the Tables
When adding info to the tables, the reference comes after all the other info. Example, |Name |Party |State |Endorsement |Date |Notes |Reference Light-jet pilot (talk) 19:23, 1 April 2012 (UTC)

Kelly Clarkson didn't actually endorse Ron Paul
No only was what she said not an endorsement, but when it became clear that people were trying to construe it as one, she backed off her statements pretty fast.74.67.100.241 (talk) 06:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)
 * From what I could find, she didn't back off, she only clarified her intent, and then told off the haters. Link >>> Kelly Clarkson Tempers Her Ron Paul Endorsement Light-jet pilot (talk) 13:47, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Expanding to include foreign endorsements
"Mitt Romney cheered in Poland, endorsed by Walesa" Iconic Polish leader Lech Walesa gave Romney a warm embrace. He then endorsed him for US president. This has gravitas! — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 14:04, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually, this endorsement can go in the 'Third Tier' section, directly. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 22:15, 4 August 2012 (UTC) — ✅

Clint Eastwood (and the Second Amendment)
FYI: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/make-my-day-clint-eastwood-endorses-romney/ (shows picture w/rifle, "Make my day!") Culture is bigger than Politics, and Clinton Eastwood's endorsement of Mitt Romney for president is a larger endorsement than some of the nationally-unknown legislator/politicians listed herein. Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 22:13, 4 August 2012 (UTC) — OK — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 23:59, 4 August 2012 (UTC) ✅

Mike Huckabee,Sara Palin and Jim Duggar Endorsed Santorum.
http://www.ricksantorum.com/pressrelease/huckabee-grassroots-leader-endorses-rick-santorum

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/03/rick-santorum-duggar-family-endorses_n_1180647.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwLZvR14elw

Santorum had a lot of Endorsements from a lot of conservatives.. Allen West originally Endorsed Newt Gingrich but when he dropped out he backed up Santorum,he also had an Endorsement form Ted Cruz before he became a senator..

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 03:04, 21 November 2017 (UTC)