Talk:Endurance (TV series)/Archive 1

Thirteen puzzle pieces?
The article notes that a thirteenth piece, Friendship, was added this season. However, the list of pieces shows only twelve but includes Friendship. Which piece is missing? C.Fred 15:56, 8 January 2006 (UTC) Never mind, I found the official website and answered my own question. C.Fred 16:01, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Removing redlinks and bad links
I will shortly remove all the redlinks. Most people won't have articles on them any time soon (or ever). For any who have articles, or are notable outside the show (and warranting articles), I will keep the link (or add it if not there). A classic problem of auto-linking is shown by two cases I found: Sabrina Lloyd links ot an article about an actress to old ot be on the show (both people with same names have separate imdb entries). Worse, Wayne Williams is the name of a person convicted of murder, in the famous Atlanta Child Murders. So, it's to avoid those types of problems I'll be doing a masss de-linking. At the same time, I'll make the last names displayed (so info won't be lost). --Rob 09:41, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Where is Season 1 still in first run?
Where is Season 1 of Endurance still in first run? I see the spoiler warning moved from Season 4—the current episode in the U.S.—to Season 1. Is part of the world still only getting the first season? C.Fred 01:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Where were first seasons shot?
I think the main piece of data missing is the location of the early sets. It suggest the first two were on islands. Which islands? For season 3, we know its Hawaii, but could we get more specific? Also, wording at the beginning is somewhat misleading, as it talks generally of "beaches". I can't fix it at the moment, as I didn't watch the show much, and haven't read enough on it. --Rob 06:27, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I updated the some of the locations based on an article I found at KidzWorld.com (adeded article to External Links section) -- User:SleepheadKC 11:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

colors
Is it just me, or do those colors make it impossible to read the text for dark colour teams. I suggest trying lighter colors (e.g. same color, but lighter) or removing the effect entirely. --Rob 06:47, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree. The colors definitely need to be much more pastel. I may have to play with them this evening, if nobody else has. —C.Fred (talk) 16:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I hope my revisions work out. --  Wikipedical 02:58, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think your changes are a great improvement. Thanks.  --Rob 02:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, they look good. Thank you! —C.Fred (talk) 04:59, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Left a note on user's talk page. Fredil Yupigo 13:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

Season 5 teams table
The idea with the tables is to have consistent formats for the results throughout the article. That includes the background colors, which are pastel to enhance readability. Using a bold color as a background makes it hard to read in certain situations. Obviously, some teams are still in the game, so I think a separate section for teams still in the game makes sense. By contrast, Garret and Anna are eliminated, so they're in a section for eliminated teams, and their final standing (8th) is listed. Other than that, we've got a defined format for the tables, so there's no reason to go reinventing the wheel for Season 5. If anybody disagrees, though, let's talk about the situation here. —C.Fred (talk) 16:07, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree with the format of the tables. Great job! I will, by all means, help you set them up as the teams go home as I had done with the teams as they were formed yesterday, five minutes after the episdoe had ended.

-Endurance fan

How to...
Can someone tell me how to change the logo at the top of the page? I have the logo for season 5 in "My Pictures", but I do not know how to add it. Can someone either tell me or give me a link on Wikipedia on how to do so? This would be very helpful.

-A loyal Endurance fan —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.231.167.60 (talk • contribs) 20:40, 26 October 2006 (UTC).

Well, for one thing, you can't add new content (images or articles) until you've registered on the site. Secondly, look through the help section on uploading images, including noting in the image file where you got the image and what type of license (I'm guessing you've got a screen capture, so it's copyrighted screen capture and fair use) the image is. —C.Fred (talk) 16:11, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Thank you- I will be sure te register soon.

Season 5 - Anna and Garret's color--or lack thereof!
I just watched the repeat of "Unwind." When J.D. set up the game, he referred to the last place team as the team that finishes "without a color." Even though historically brown was used as the eighth color, it was not in play in Season 5, there was no brown shirt present on the set during taping of the game, so I don't see any reason why Anna and Garret should be listed as the brown team. —C.Fred (talk) 18:20, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Because they're not the brown team, J.D. never assigned them that color- Masterwiki 16:45, 14 April 2007

What does this mean?
Under 'Endurance High Sierras', it says that (and I quote) "By contract, Lilly completed the mission without falling into the water." What does this mean? Did that make sure that Lilly did not fall, and made sure everone else did? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.231.167.60 (talk • contribs) 20:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC).


 * No, it means I made a typo. It now reads "By contrast...." —C.Fred (talk) 00:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks!

In that same paragraph, it seems somewhat irrelevant and unfair to declare that Martina "is the first player in Endurance history to give up on a mission". It could be argued that players have "given up" on previous missions when they finally let go of a pole or something similar. Vandelay 22:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Martina literally said "I can't do this, I give up" in the RTS episode. I don't remember if any other contestant has been caught on tape saying that or close to saying the same words during a mission. -E3Fan5 31 December 2006

Season 5 casting poll
Is the casting poll for Season 5 relevant? Do we really need the names of the four people who lost the Internet poll? If so, how do we decide which people who auditioned and didn't make it get to appear in the article? —C.Fred (talk) 04:28, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Since it's the only known detail about the new season, I suppose it's not a big deal for now. But I would agree that those names should be removed once the full cast has been announced and other details become available. Vandelay 14:26, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it's time to remove the names of the contestants who lost the casting poll. Not particularly relevant. Agreed? Vandelay 22:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Endurance Fan-Website
I am a member of an Endurance Fan-Website, where it has almost all the information about Endurance, and has boards for fans. The boards have also been visited by past Endurance Players such as:

Jonna, Ashley, Christian, Sabrina, Maryelle, Keetin, Calley, Jeff, Max, Nicole, Monroe, Lindi, Reece, Daniela, Shea, Isaac, Amelia, And more recently, the majority of the cast for Endurance 5!

We are trying to get more members, plus we think we are the only fan-website for Endurance. I put the link up before, but I forgot to clarify with Wikipedia. Anyways, may this link to the website be put up on the page? http://groups.msn.com/EnduranceonDiscoveryKids/main.msnw —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.161.168.150 (talk • contribs) 16:40, 22 November 2006 (UTC).

No, you may not put the link up on this page. A couple of comments you made are key reasons: "I am a member of an Endurance Fan-Website" and "We are trying to get more members." It is very bad form to advertise one's own site through Wikipedia, which is what this link placement does. Wikipedia has guidelines established about what kind of external links are allowable, and I don't see this as meeting them.

Another big issue is, what's the source of the info on the fansite? My quick scan turned up lots of opinions and rankings but no citations back to original sources (e.g. news articles, press releases).

Finally, there was a large notice on the front page cautioning users against copying from the site, yet no acknowledgement of source on the cast photos—which more likely than not were taken from a Discovery Kids site and with no trace of permission, so there are issues there with copyright concerns.

If other established editors see merit in the site, it's possible it can be put back up, but right now, I don't see any reason for it to be included. —C.Fred (talk) 16:48, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

- The majority of the pictures have been posted by, yes, members, but the pictures are almost all taken by the members themselves, or borrowed from other members with permission and edited, blended, or cropped. I think that this website should be listed because, well, isn't all of Wikipedia used by people saying their opinion? Same for Endurance on Discovery Kids. Also, there are some newspaper articles mentioned, listed, or linked. Saying that this website is not reliable is the same as saying that Wikipedia is not reliable. WHile I am not a member to Endurance on Discovery Kids, I am in the process of registering, because I saw the site originally on Wikipedia. Quote in Quote from Cfred, 'It is very bad form to advertise one's own site through Wikipedia'. Techinically, it's not her site, so what you said is backwards. I feel I have given my two cents on the matter for now.

I tend to agree with Cfred on this one. The site is interesting, but read the WP:EL rules. I just don't see a provision for linking fan-run websites. Or check out the Wikipedia articles about other TV shows -- no fansites listed. But what you CAN do, according to the rules, is this: go to the DMOZ.org directory and create a section for Endurance sites. List your site in that section of the DMOZ. Then you can edit the Wikipedia article to link to the DMOZ. Vandelay 18:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

Should we really show...
... The last names of only some of the High Sierras contestants? I think we should take them out for now, and not add them back until we have everyone's, so the table is consistant. What do you think?

-EnduranceFan, 12-17-06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.227.158.43 (talk) 13:33, 17 December 2006 (UTC).


 * I say show as much as we have. That way, we know whose last names we need to track down and add to the article. —C.Fred (talk) 18:36, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * That makes sense, but still...

-EnduranceFan, 12-17-06


 * Added Darci's last name. Only Aeriel's last name is outstanding.

-Another Fan of Endurance. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.159.206.70 (talk) 22:13, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

I'll check http://groups.msn.com/EnduranceonDiscoveryKids/main.msnw every day until someone finds Aerial's last name... hopefully soon! I'm not a member yet but still go to it several times a day.

-Endurance Fan, 12-25-06

Browser Issue: IE vs Firefox
IE and Firefox gives me two different versions of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_%28TV_series%29

I've cleared cached, used even ccleaner and still getting different versions of this article. Anyone experience this issue?--72.235.163.247 05:39, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I'm going to trust Firefox version for now... --72.235.163.247 05:57, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

Season 5: "Challenge" vs "Episode"
I was wondering if we should be calling each episodes as "Challenge"? I think we should rename them to "Episode" (or "Mission"). --72.235.163.247 05:54, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I think that we should call them 'Episodes', because significate things may have happened in before or after the actual mission. --I Will Endure 18:18, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Season Pages
We should have pages for individual seasons. I have already started the e3 page and it is linked to on this page. We would have more info on individual seasons and this page could just have notes about each season. What do you think of this idea? Themoolah196 21:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I disagree that each season should have its own article. According to WP:SIZE (scroll down to the "Splitting a page" section), you probably don't to split an article until the article length gets above 32KB.  The main Endurance article is only 22KB.  I'd prefer to keep everything in one article at this time.  Also, I read your Endurance Hawaii article, and there are several statements there which go against Wikipedia's "neutral point of view" policy (see WP:NPOV).    Vandelay 00:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Hrm. Interesting edit history on Endurance Hawaii. It was created about 18 months ago and survived a VfD. Then a year ago, it was quietly redirected to this article. Then in September, it was created again. I don't see any need to go creating articles for all the seasons yet, nor do I think the E3 article needs deleted. However, I agree that some of the expanded coverage, like the challenges detail, may be better split off to pages for the seasons, once this article gets over 32kB. —C.Fred (talk) 01:28, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Now that the season has progressed...
I think that now that the season has progressed, we can omit some things in the "High Sierras" section, such as "The 20 contestants are: Adrian, Aerial, Alex, Anna, Aric, Cameron, Cealey, Connor, Dakota, Darci, Garret, Isaac (Ike), Kelsey, Kristine, Lilly, Martina, Max, Rafael, Stefanie and Taylor. Two girls (Martina and Stefanie) and two boys (Adrian and Rafael) were eliminated in "Balance Is the Key." " Does anyone disagree? --I Will Endure 20:42, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Endurance Hawaii AfD
As an FYI, there is an Articles for Deletion discussion underway for the Endurance Hawaii article. I will not rehash here what I've already said there, since that's where discussion on the issue should go. However, I wanted to advise that the discussion is going on. —C.Fred (talk) 02:57, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Where's the Trivia?
I think this page deserves a trivia page and I'd been trying to keep things in check with adding more and more things that would be considered as Endurance Trivia, why did we get rid of this? Gamloverks 16:22, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I got rid of it because most of the items there were covered elsewhere in the article. As a rule, trivia sections are discouraged (see the template). Since everything in the trivia section was covered elsewhere, we didn't need the catchall section, so not only did I delete the redundant items, but I also deleted the section. —C.Fred (talk) 23:31, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Alrght then, I just figured it would be a good idea to do it since tehre are a lot of things surrounding Endurance that would be considered as a trivia thing. Gamloverks 17:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Add a notes column to the table?
I'm thinking that a notes column would be good to separate the team name from all of the Samadhi and temple activity. The only thing I worry about with this is Season 4 showing the team names, so we wind up with something like this:



I think that enhances the readability. Does anybody object if that's done to all the tables? —C.Fred (talk) 05:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The only thing I might suggest changing is to put the Team column as the first column. Other than that it looks fine to me, and it's an improvement over what's there now..  Vandelay 05:33, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Looks good to me. How about noting who has the Immunity along with current holder of the Samadhi.--72.235.163.247 06:50, 5 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Comment: is there a reason why this table was changed on March 8 by User:Teremoana to eliminate the Hometown info.? JGHowes 02:44, 11 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Note: Hometown info. put back in, also moved Dubela image to top of article, to illustrate the entire series concept. JGHowes 11:20, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Endurance: Season 6
I know we have the stuff up there (the applications) for Endurance the Sixth, but shouldn't we at least mention in the actual article that a sixth season is planned and the location is unknown? (I knew I was forgetting something)Gamloverks 15:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * It's done. (by the way, please sign your post)  JGHowes 05:03, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * No, no, no, not in links, but as part of the season stuff, you know, like what wwe did before we knew where Season five was going to be held. Gamloverks 15:06, 14 March 2007 (UTC)


 * well, I did add a second paragraph about E6 in the Production section. If you have more to add, how about you doing it? JGHowes 15:36, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Hometown
Is there any reason that we need the hometown for the Season 4 of Endurance and not for any other season?Gamloverks 15:09, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I presume it's the opposite, that Season 4 is the only one we've been able to find it for, and we'd add it to the others as we came across it. —C.Fred (talk) 17:05, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll watch the TV schedule for when the first episodes of the season air again, because that is where the hometowms are found. --66.227.158.43 13:32, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
 * That's right, since they usually say it as they are entering during the first episode of it.Gamloverks 19:50, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I added Season 5 today, going through all of the articles about the contestants. I couldn't find Ike or Lilly, but someone came though and added them.  However, my source (http://www.topix.net/content/kri/3321366234118066473441612641480309177324) says that Max is from Leawood, Kansas, which is a close-in suburb of KC, and the show's official website shows him from Kansas.  Nevertheless, the same person changed Max to KC, which I've changed back, unless we don't list suburbs. AyaK 23:01, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Dang, had I recorded that episode the other night, I could've gotten all the information I needed for Endurance 2's hometown (Besides Max and Jenna) However, I did notice that on the IMDB sites, that they had where they weere born for the majority of the kids.Gamloverks 15:11, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Where they live now might be different from where they were born, but I'm not sure.

Time to move E5 "Challenge summaries"?
Now that the season is over, should this be moved to Endurance Episodes?  JGHowes talk  -  15:34, 20 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes. AyaK 20:16, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

layout change
Hi, made some layout changes, such as suppressing Table of Contents, moved photo up, and centered "Season Summaries". Let me know what you think.  JGHowes talk  -  14:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I think it looks fine. --I Will Endure 10:21, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Not much of a diffrence, but good anyway. Masterwiki 16:52, 14 Arpil 2007 (Central Time)

Aeriel Miranda's hometown
I think the link may have gone dead, but the referenced source very clearly stated Aeriel is from Plano, Texas—not Dallas, even though the former is a suburb of the latter. Please do not change without a source stating she is from Dallas or some other solid reason. —C.Fred (talk) 17:26, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Temple of Fate
I wonder how the element rises after it is choosen, do they press a button or what?--ERDRGZ 21:50, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

No, the players tell a producer the element they choose, then write it on the rock/wood for dramatic effect. The producers then make the elements rise.

Who's been to Temple?
The article currently notes that Orange sent Yellow to Temple, but it also says that Red was eliminated in Temple by Green. So who's been to Temple so far? That's three teams, and unless they changed it drastically, it isn't a three-team situation. —C.Fred (talk) 01:20, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This points out the bigger problem &mdash; no episode results are being sourced as Wikipedia requires. Is there a WP:RS for the results?  JGHowes talk  -  18:48, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point. I just reverted changes made by an IP to remove the results, and right after I did that, I said, "Wait a minute. How do I know the first elimination is reliable/verifiable?" Endurance isn't on the radar of Television Without Pity, so we can't use them for a source (though reliability would rear its head there). The episodes themselves are primary sources. That leaves the official website, or at least everything there except the forum, unless episode synopses are in some form of a TV Guide-type digest. —C.Fred (talk) 22:55, 5 November 2007 (UTC)