Talk:England/GA2

GA Review
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Hey all, I'll be reviewing this article for possible GA status. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:34, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm still in the process of reviewing the article, but I'm almost certainly placing it on hold. It's a good article, but not a Good Article (if that makes sense). I'll do my best to finish the review quickly and respond to comments promptly, but real-life circumstances are curtailing my online time for at least the next week. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:46, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Writing and formatting

 * Should "God Save the Queen" be included as a de facto / historical anthem? ✅ (nope, anthem of UK as whole)
 * Hold on, GSQ is played at the start of all international matches for the ENGLAND team etc.  it is de facto the national anthem (as well as the UK),  I've yet to hear Jerusalem played in the same context.  -- Snowded  TALK  21:34, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * IMO, the sentences in the first paragraph of the article should be reordered. Given current arrangement 123456, my preference would be 132546 - in particular, I think 2 and 5 should be adjoining. Also, sentence 6 would probably be better off in the third paragraph of the lead, where population is discussed. ✅
 * Directions should be consistent: either "south-west" or "south west", not both ✅
 * Why is 4th century linked in Etymology? ✅
 * "Albion is now applied to England in a more poetic capacity" - needs ending punctuation ✅
 * Dates of settlement are inconsistent - lead says 29,000 years ago, History says either 35,000 or 11,000 ✅
 * "This advance was contained for a while after the British led Battle of Mount Badon" - grammar. Also, "British"? Should this be "Britons"? ✅
 * It says that Christianity was "reintroduced", but it doesn't explicitly discuss its disappearance ✅ (it mentions the invasion of pagans in the history)
 * "Its ties and nature, however, were forever changed following the Norman conquest of England in 1066" - what is being referred to here? The country? The dynasty? Why was there this change?✅
 * The last paragraph in Middle Ages seems disjointed and out of order.✅
 * "with the Scottish king James VI accession to the English crown" - grammar ✅
 * History should be in chronological order as much as possible
 * 1746 hardly seems "contemporary" - the Contemporary section doesn't fit well, and surely there is some more recent history that merits inclusion?✅
 * The article needs a general major copyedit - there are numerous issues with grammar and punctuation
 * Try to avoid linking the same term multiple times ✅
 * Avoid ambiguous wording: "William Shakespeare who authored the plays Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth and A Midsummer Night's Dream, remains one of the most championed authors in English literature" reads as if these plays were the only ones written by Shakespeare. Consider "who authored such plays as" or "whose works include" ✅
 * In "Literature", why do only Tolkien and Rowling have works listed? And if those mentions are necessary, can the punctuation of that phrase be improved? ✅

Accuracy and verifiability

 * I noticed an unresolved discussion on the talk page about whether England's parliamentary system is in fact the world's oldest. A caption on a picture seems a bit insufficient to source a statement like that, especially given the fact that it is disputed - is there another source available that confirms the claim?✅ (it now just says that the English form of the system has been adopted by various other countries)
 * Ref 6 redirects to the main page of the site. Is there a permanent link to the desired page? ✅
 * "the "Kings of England" used England as a source of troops to enlarge their personal holdings in France" - why is "Kings of England" in quotations here?✅
 * Need citations for:
 * As the seas rose, it was separated from Ireland 9,000 years ago and from Eurasia half a century later✅
 * In the 3rd century, emperor Septimius Severus died at York, and in that city Constantine was proclaimed emperor.✅
 * Christianity was first introduced around this time, though there are traditions linked to Glastonbury claiming an introduction through Joseph of Arimathea, while others claim through Lucius of Britain.✅
 * Northumbria and Mercia were the most dominant forces early on. However, following Viking conquests in the north and east, with the insertion of Danelaw, the premier English kingdom became Wessex under Alfred the Great.✅
 * The English crown did not relinquish its last foothold on mainland France until Calais was lost, in 1558, during the reign of Mary Tudor (the Channel Islands are still crown dependencies, though not part of the UK)✅
 * The English Reformation paved the way for the spread of Anglicanism in the church and other institutions✅
 * During the interregnum, the Church of England's monopoly on Christian worship in England came to an end and the Protestant Ascendancy consolidated in Ireland✅
 * Constitutionally, the wars established a precedent that British monarchs could not govern without parliamentary consent, although this would not be cemented until the Glorious Revolution later in the century.✅
 * Berwick remains within the English legal system and so is regarded today as part of England✅
 * The county of Monmouthshire had been an ambiguous area with its legal identity passing between England and Wales at various periods✅
 * The Pennines which are known as the backbone of England, are the oldest range of mountains in the country originating from the end of the Paleozoic Era around 300 million years ago✅
 * The Greater London Urban Area is by far the largest urban area in England and one of the busiest cities in the world. It has a population larger than other countries in the United Kingdom besides England itself. Other urban areas of considerable size and influence tend to be in northern England or the English Midlands. There are fifty settlements which have been designated city status in England, while the United Kingdom in general has sixty-six. ✅
 * a large population is not necessarily a prerequisite for a settlement to be afforded city status. Traditionally the status was afforded to towns with diocesan cathedrals✅
 * England's economy is the among the largest in in the world, it has an average GDP per capita of £22,907✅
 * The economy of England is the largest part of the British economy; combined with the other countries of the United Kingdom has the 18th highest GDP PPP per capita in the world✅
 * since the 1970s there has been a decline in traditional heavy and manufacturing industries, towards a more service industry dominated economy✅
 * While agriculture is intensive and highly mechanised, producing 60% of food needs with only 2% of the labour force.✅ Two thirds of production is devoted to livestock, the other to arable crops.
 * Rail transport in England is the oldest in the world, with the system originating there in 1825✅
 * Much of Britain's 16,116 kilometres (10,014 mi) of rail network lies in England, covering the country extensively.✅
 * Funded through taxation state-run schools are attended by approximately 93% of English schoolchildren✅
 * Around 7% of English schoolchildren attend private schools which are funded by private sources✅
 * There are more than 90 state funded universities in England✅
 * Students attending English universities now have to pay tuition fees towards the cost of their education, as do English students who choose to attend university in Scotland. Though Scottish students attending Scottish universities get their fees paid for them through the devolved Scottish Parliament.✅
 * England has a strong history of promoting education and its top institutions enjoy a respected reputation internationally✅
 * The largest form practiced in the present day is Anglicanism✅
 * architect Christopher Wren was particularly championed✅
 * Prince Charles since the 1980s has voiced strong views against it in favour of traditional architecture✅
 * the food of England has historically been characterised by its simplicity of approach such as meat and two veg, honesty of flavour, and a reliance on the high quality of natural produce✅
 * The French sometimes referred to English people as les rosbifs, as a stereotype to suggest English food is crude or unsophisticated✅
 * Prominent amongst twentieth century artists was Henry Moore, regarded as the voice of British sculpture, and of British modernism in general.✅
 * The best known secular prose is the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle✅
 * William Shakespeare who authored the plays Hamlet, Romeo and Juliet, Macbeth and A Midsummer Night's Dream, remains one of the most championed authors in English literature✅
 * Marvell was the best known poet of the Commonwealth✅
 * More radical elements were later countered by Edmund Burke who is regarded as the founder of conservatism✅
 * Seventeen of the twenty-five United Kingdom UNESCO World Heritage Sites fall within England✅
 * are amongst the largest and most comprehensive in the world ✅
 * England has won it 92 times✅ (apparently been removed?)


 * "Usually regarded as a mixed market economy, although it takes on many free market principles compared to the Rhine Capitalism of Europe, England has an advanced social welfare infrastructure" - without references, this reads as WP:OR - revise and reference✅
 * Tertiary sources should be avoided where possible - given the relative prominence of the topic, secondary sources should be readily available✅
 * Student-written papers or websites are also poor sources, and should be replaced✅
 * Blogs are to be avoided✅
 * More consistency in referencing format would be ideal, but at minimum the footnotes should reflect the references. I noticed a couple of missing words in titles and other small mistakes✅
 * Stradling is in References but not Footnotes✅
 * Should note where links require login or subscription for access, and where sources are not English-language✅
 * There are multiple broken links in Footnotes✅

Broad
This criteria is well-done considering the incredible scope of the article. For improvement, I would consider adding some more recent information, especially in the History section (as mentioned above, 300+ years ago isn't "contemporary")✅

Neutrality

 * There's one WP:WEASEL tag in the article, and from what I can see there should be more. There's also some issues with WP:PEACOCK.
 * Look at WP:ASF - any assertation that someone or something is "the most famous", "the most prominent", "the greatest", etc, should be cited and qualified or reworded✅
 * Look at WP:WTA - certain words introduce an editorial bias to articles and should be avoided

Stability

 * There are a couple of as-yet-unresolved discussions on the talk page regarding content, but they aren't resulting in edit wars, so that's fine
 * I see some content-based (non-vandalism) reverts in the recent article history - civil so far, but merits watching

Images

 * The "distribution of English language" image is duplicated in one of the boxes at the bottom per comment below
 * Technically not an image, but the Rolling Stones excerpt needs a more detailed fair-use rationale. Mansell is not mentioned in the article text, it has an insufficient fair-use rationale, and a different sound sample would better reflect English music - I advocate for its removal ✅
 * The England flag of St George is not appearing at the top. Furthermore, I have noted that the Argentina flag is coming up instead on other pages, against the likes of English persons e.g. footballers, to denote their nationality. The link of these images where the Argentina flag appears, comes back to this England page, hence why I was checking it. As the image is not present, but there is a link to a correct version of the St George flag, I do not understand what the problem is and why the Argentina flag appears instead (a leftover from some vandalism, perhaps?); only that there is one and the correcting of the flag's appearance on this page might be the solution.✅

Comments
Thanks for reviewing the article. In response to the "distribution of English language" image, one is part of the article, the other is part of a template. Within the text, it helps the reader quickly visualise the distribution of the English language. The template is for further information, and allows the reader to click on each country to learn more about the English language usage. Hayden120 (talk) 03:30, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Consolidation
I'm just going to consolidate and reiterate (mostly for my own benefit) what's still to be done here. Nikkimaria (talk) 19:19, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Writing and formatting

 * 1746 hardly seems "contemporary" - the Contemporary section doesn't fit well, and surely there is some more recent history that merits inclusion?✅
 * Response from a semi-involved editor: This is certainly a problem. Can I suggest the entire text under the heading "contemporary" belongs within the "politics" section (though i putting it there would give undue weight to Berwick / Monmouthshire issues which arguably should not be included at all in this summary article). The article currently lacks any post-Union history. At the bare minimum surely there should be some text here about the origins of the industrial revolution; a cross-reference to the British Empire (I realise that is a topic for Britain, and is covered in History of the British Empire, but we should not have the present article written as though such a thing was of no consequence for England); the growth and dominance of London; bombing in WWII. Those would be my initial thoughts. hamiltonstone (talk) 02:50, 21 September 2009 (UTC)


 * The article needs a general copyedit - there are some issues with grammar, punctuation and clarity ✅ (put it through a copyeditor and every seems OK)

Accuracy and verifiability

 * Citations needed for:
 * Two thirds of production is devoted to livestock, the other to arable crops.✅

Broad

 * Possibly update with more recent information, especially in the History section✅

Neutrality

 * Minor issues with WP:WEASEL and WP:PEACOCK. ✅
 * Look at WP:ASF - any assertation that someone or something is "famous", "prominent", "great", etc, should be cited and qualified or reworded✅
 * Look at WP:WTA - certain words introduce an editorial bias to articles and should be avoided ✅

Finishing up
Just a few more minor things to deal with for GA: WP:WEASEL, WP:WTA, WP:PEACOCK. You might also want to read through one more time to double-check clarity and flow. Cheers, Nikkimaria (talk) 03:06, 13 October 2009 (UTC)