Talk:England national football team/Archive 3

England vs Scotland 1870
I feel that this page should refer to the very earliest international football match of 5th March 1870 and not to the 1872 one as the origin of international football. The 1870 match was approved by the FA and the 1872 "official" one happened was before the Scottish FA even existed (and therefore could not approve it!). The 1872 match is often used to argue that scotland invented football and I feel strongly that the English origin should be remembered and indeed asserted. Thoughts? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Stewdoug (talk • contribs) 14:30, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

England vs Brazil
Strange, I updated the page to include England's first home match at Wembley against Brazil, but it was removed?
 * I don't think you pressed "Save Page" because nothing has appeared in your contribution history. -- Boothman   /tɔːk/  18:04, 2 June 2007 (UTC).

Yeah, whatevz.

New England Kit
England recently changed their kits, and the kit picture needs to be updated. JLeP

It has, there is not enough space to put on all the detail,also they are just a outline, not a photograph Chaza93 20:14, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Infobox
Infobox looks broken in Firefox 2 - can someone who knows how these things work take a look? 217.42.248.144 21:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Squad
Are all of those squad boxes really needed? Chaza93 20:13, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Beckham
recalled, changes, now, make em
 * page, updated, already Paulbrock 01:19, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

I've heard in discourse among Major League Soccer fans that Beckham may be the first England player to be named captain (T&T friendly) while playing for a club outside of Europe. Would this be verifiable somewhere online? ~Beach blvd (talk) 08:11, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

UK divided
Why do England, Scotland, Wales and Nothern Ireland have their own football teams?? If I remember correctly they still are one country! That is SO unfair towards other countries. France, Spain, Italy, Germany and so on are not divided. When did the UK deserve the right to play unfair? Sincerely, an angry/confused non-Englishman. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.193.1.91 (talk • contribs).
 * I believe it is related to the fact that rather than a UK or british Football Association, historically we have had separate orgs - the (English) Football Association, Scottish Football Association, etc, plus separate leagues, each of which is separately affiliated to UEFA/FIFA. If it's any consolation,  combining the teams into a UK eleven would make a more competitive team!! Paulbrock 01:07, 31 May 2007 (UTC)


 * i dont see how it is unfair, what would be unfair would be if france, spain, italy and germany played as a single team. paulbrock has it spot on --Numberwang 14:55, 14 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Unfair? maybe if the nations were split further, north and south England for example? Gazh 18:52, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


 * There is no way in hell that the UK is competing as a sole football team, whoever posted this is an idiot and does not understand the history of the UK, hopefully, sooner rather than later, the UK will be disbanded anyway and all the countries that are bound with in this torturous union will once again be sovreign nations. iammadeofjelly91.110.119.56 (talk) 19:52, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Good point. There's been talk of a Scottish Independence referendum. Digifiend (talk) 14:18, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

List of matches
I removed this section as being unencyclopedic. Please discuss here before adding it again. Thanks. --John 16:11, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Squad/Recent Call Ups
I know the idea is to remove anyone who hasn't been called up in over a year, but looking down the list on glaring obmission is Owen Hargreaves. Obviously he hasn't been called up since the WC, due to injury, but this is different to say Campbell or Beckham (when he was left out) as they weren't due to injury. He was a regular squad member so it's different to, say Dean Ashton, who has only made one squad. Personally I think players in Hargreaves situation should be included. JimmyMac82 10:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)


 * It's a reasonable point. I'd still argue for leaving him out, just to retain the objectivity of the article - when you make one exception, you open a can of worms. It doesn't matter that much, but I think leaving him out makes more sense.--Pretty Green 17:38, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Squad numbers
I notice that squad numbers have been added to the 'latest squad' section. As these players are rightly listed in order of caps won, surely adding squad numbers makes it look random and messy? Also, squad numbers only hold any relevance at all during major tournaments, not friendlies or even qualifiers. I've not altered anything but would value further opinion. Bentley Banana 10:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Worldcup 1970
the articel says "In the 1970s England did not qualify for the World Cup", but they did actually enter the 70´s wc in mexico. i dont know if the intention was, to speak about the qualification (which probably was in ´69?). anyway its missleading, maybe someone can change it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.229.249.182 (talk) 19:56, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * They didn't qualify for the 1970 World Cup as they were automatically entered as holders of the trophy. Bentley Banana 01:07, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

recent form
can someone clear up the section in recent form regarding England's away match against andorra. its rubbish. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.54.62 (talk) 15:16, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

England or English
Is it England national football team or English national football team. There seems to be inconsistency right from the first line of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Capo975 (talk • contribs) 12:18, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * All national team articles are named with the name of the area, rather than the "nationality". Quite a lot put the "nationality" on the first line though, however I also think it should be the area name (England) in both places. - MTC 13:23, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Recent Form
'recent form' suffers recentism!!!! jesus christ really!? shock fucking horror. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.154.155.83 (talk) 23:20, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Possible Protection?
Might it be worth protecting this article from editing for a short period? Given current circumstances I fear this will become a ripe target for vandalism. 81.151.86.138 (talk) 21:03, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Too late, my friend ... Jake the Editor Man ( talk  ) 21:58, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Kits
England's kit has been white for a good year now. ie their shorts AREN'T BLUE.

-> I think this may be the case for some matches where the team's blue shorts would clash with those of their opponents, but the blue ones would still be worn against other teams

Overly negative second and third paragraphs?
Is it just me, or do the second and third paragraphs seem overly negative? Is there any need for the clause mentioning that the World Cup win was "controversial", as surely many countries' wins ccould be described? Also, since the late 1980s until the end of the 1990s England's fans were perhaps "known for violent behaviour", but since then this has become far less of a problem.

Admittedly these two things deserve inclusion, but I disagree with their prominent inclusion in the introductory three paragraphs.

Condensed McClaren era descriptions
Read more like end of year news review than anything else. Condensed to two sentences and if you are not happy with my choice, feel free to revert it. --JNZ (talk) 20:30, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Semi-Protect?
should we ask for that page to be semi-protected to stop unregistered users from changing who the "current manager" is as i have had to revert numerous times due to Jose Mourinho being added.Skitzo (talk) 22:29, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes I think so, Fabio Capello is keep being added as the manager and confirmation of that has not rose so far. Blueanode (talk) 15:58, 13 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I provided a citation for this before, and it was STILL reverted. Please stop ignoring IP users!!! 84.67.14.70 (talk) 15:59, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Well stop adding Capello. He has not been confirmed as the england manager yet. Blueanode (talk) 17:24, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Well he has now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.4.227.114 (talk) 20:51, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

More shit on the manager bit, Owen Harrison? Fixing to Steve McLaren now. Ghostreveries (talk) 22:49, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

The England Challenge Cup
Why has not this minor cup compertition not on wikipedia because i want to know —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.64.171.242 (talk) 17:26, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

Head Coach or Manager?
Why do people keep refering to Fabio Capello as England's "Head Coach"? The FA have referred to him as "England Manager" throughought. In England we have Managers not Head Coach's as head of our football teams. Can you imagine Arsene Wenger or Sir Alex Ferguson being referred to as "Head Coach"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Consulrjo (talk • contribs) 13:48, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

On 09 January 2008 the FA website describes Italo Galbiati as "Assistant Manager" and Franco Baldini as "General Manager". comment added by Consulrjo (talk


 * If Capello is genuinely "manager" rather than "head coach", he would be first to hold that role since Graham Taylor. AFAIR, the role was redefined as "head coach" when Terry Venables took over, as he'd been previously barred from hold positions as company director, so the FA wanted to make it clear that he was only in charge of team affairs.  All men in charge of the England team since have been named "head coach", so Consulrjo's statement that we do no have head coaches is definitely incorrect.  robwingfield «T•C» 19:06, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

thats not true. capello is never called the "new england coach". Rob you got proof? and if u ask for proof watch the news and when they mention capello they will say 'manager.' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.203.0 (talk) 19:52, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Records
what happened to the biggest win/loss etc. records in the info box, they are for England's overall performance not just under Capello.Skitzo (talk) 18:35, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Overall Results against teams
I think this section looks sloppy whilst unfinished; I'm not sure who has developed it but I think it needs finishing before inserting. I'll put it into a subpage for now for development; the table can be found at /results. Pretty Green (talk) 23:04, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

lame
this article is getting worse and worse, the history section is minuscule, surely the founding country of football has a much longer history than this. The intro is also pretty poor, it says england have made it to the semi-finals once, in 1990. Why does this article keep getting worse and worse!?

I suggest you fix it then? Redman19 (talk) 16:14, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

thats not constructive, you expect one person to re-write a page, no help, suggestions or anything. nob head. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.251.40 (talk) 16:21, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

Nickname
I see that "The Three Lions" is included as a Nickname for the England team. I'm not aware of this being the case, and can't think of an occasion where the term has been used in such a fashion. As far as I'm aware the England team does not have a nickname at all. Dancarney (talk) 13:21, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

heard the song "three lions?" do a search for three lions on google news you will see plenty of results. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.162.201.174 (talk) 21:36, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Amazingly enough I have heard the song Three Lions, but that is terrible evidence. If such a thing was the case then West Ham would be nicknamed the bubble-blowers. Anyway, to humour myself I did look up Three Lions on Google news, and it turns out that quite a few low-quality sources (The Scum, etc) do use the term. Well I never. Still never heard the term used on TV, in conversation, etc. Dancarney (talk) 14:37, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

history
the history section is a bit strange, previously it was criticised for its "recentism" and now all the history seems to have been transferred to another page. If the main history goes there where does the recent stuff go, and surely more should be said about the worlds first football team? 21:40, 28 May 2008 (UTC)~


 * I'm not trying to be nonconstructive here, but we cannot allow all the minute details that are of marginal significance to appear on this article. After all, this is supposed to be an encyclopedia article, and friendlies results are of peripheral interests years later. --JNZ (talk) 09:19, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

England vs USA
This was in the forthcoming fixtures list. I've added the result, but I don't know if the match, which isn't mentioned elsewhere in the article, should be removed from the table? Digifiend (talk) 14:20, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Just checked the page about the USA national soccer team, it has a recent results table, that sounds like a better place for mentioning the USA game, and the T&T one after it's played at the weekend. But there isn't currently such a table on this article. Digifiend (talk) 14:23, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I think it needs to get ridding off unless theres an aticle about englands results then it should be there. Pathfinder2006 (talk) 14:42, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

Straw Polls on "Association" being added to UK and Irish football articles: England
There is a straw poll at Talk:Football in England on whether the word "Association" should be added to Football in England. --Matt Lewis (talk) 17:17, 29 May 2008 (UTC)


 * This happened in Feb 2008 at Association football in the Republic of Ireland. A popular reason is to "conform" with Association football. The poll is to give your view about England. --Matt Lewis (talk) 23:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

this page is a complete mess
no one seems to acknowledge it!! can we please get some to review it, it certainly is not worty of a B rating... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.156.170.254 (talk) 22:05, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

Hi, my username is limesen, I wrote this in the article "Joao Havelange (former FIFA President from 1974 to 1998) claimed that the 1966 and 1974 World Cups were fixed so that England and Germany would win respectively" but I can't add the source to the references http://www.goal.com/en/Articolo.aspx?ContenutoId=753029 Can someone do it 4 me?

A lot of the debut info is missing in the Most recent squad
Someone's removed most of the info regarding the players' debuts in the "Most recent squad", can someone please restore it please?-- Alasdair 07:59, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

I updated the World Cup history
I have included the 2010 World Cup with simply "Not Yet Qualified" if that is OK. I have observed that Euro 2012 has already been included for for the European Championships so I thought it logical to do the same for World Cup which is the next tournament that England will be trying to qualify for. Hope that helped a little. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.235.97.133 (talk) 16:16, 1 August 2008 (UTC)

removal of Joe Mercer
Joe Mercer has been removed from the manager stats, without explanation, by an IP. I assume this is because he was caretaker manager. If we restore Mercer, should we also add Peter Taylor and Howard Wilkinson, who were also caretaker managers? --Jameboy (talk) 22:04, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Captain TBA
Although it will change today, I've put TBA back into the infobox as I do not feel that it would be "obvious". (212.74.97.195 (talk) 11:28, 19 August 2008 (UTC))

Steven Gerrard
Has Steven Gerrard not been called up to the England squad in the last 12 months? He is a surprising omission from the Recent call ups? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.134.3.141 (talk) 20:48, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

Criteria
Is birth in England the sole criteria for eligibility to play for the England national team? 90.196.221.12 (talk) 22:07, 1 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe, for me is not England, there are just blacks in the team, my country (Brazil) have more whites in the team than England. --89.101.254.77 (talk) 14:47, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Most of the "blacks" that you speak of were born in England, so stop being so racist. Being born in England is not the sole criterion (see Owen Hargreaves, Terry Butcher, John Barnes (footballer), Cyrille Regis), but I'm not sure exactly what the criteria are. Maybe the FA's website has some details? --Jameboy (talk) 20:35, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The basic criterion is having citizenship of a country, however acquired. This is up to the laws of any particular country. FIFA thus does not involve itself in how this is done, in order to avoid making political decisions (see an interesting example with Northern Ireland here). The articles on British Citizenship illuminates the full details in the UK. The basic criteria are 1. Birth in the UK 2.Parents from the UK 3.Having lived for a significant period in the UK. The last clause is occaisionally suggested for palyers who have been in England for a while, but never played for their home nation; it has, to my knowledge, never been followed up though. Equally, Owen Hargreaves was only 1 year from being eligible to play for Germany when he first played for England.
 * Within the UK, the rule is that you can play for a home nation (including both Irelands) if a. you are a British citizen (or Irish if you want to represent them) and b. you, one of your parents or grandparents was born in that home nation. So Vinnie Jones, born in London, was able to play for Wales because of his Welsh grandfather, whilst Tony Cascarino, born in Kent, was able to play for Ireland because is mother was adopted into an Irish family when young. See the full details here -
 * Interestingly, someone who obtains British citizenship through naturalization (i.e. they are made a British citizen for a non-genealogical reason) would qualify for a home nation of their choosing. This means that non-internationally capped EU players who have been in the UK for over 5 years could play for Northern Ireland or Wales (I'm presuming that if good enough they'd be selected by England or Scotland). This includes Carlo Cudicini, Steed Malbranque, Mikel Arteta and Manuel Almunia and possibly a few others.
 * In addition, any players from the Channel Islands, Isle of Mann, Gibraltar, Falkland Islands etc are eligible to play for any home nation of their chosing, though presumably would have to be given British citizenship first. --Pretty Green (talk) 10:44, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

Inclusion of Upcoming friendly matches
An IP is partially reversing my removal of this section  (they at least removed the TV guide information before re-adding it). Future fixture information is far too speculative (a fixture date being published is no guarantee it will take place) and frankly unimportant to be considered appropriate for inclusion in this article, which is after all supposed to be about the England team for all time. And including this info here is not the same as adding the unplayed fixtures in a current affairsish type article such as say a specific European Championship tournament article. Wikipedia is not a fixture publicity service for the FA, and it certainly shouldn't be relied upon to be accurate by anyone who is foolish enough to use it as one, despite the no doubt philanthropic motives of anyone trying to edit the article as such. It should go. MickMacNee (talk) 19:41, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
 * No objections, so I've removed it again. MickMacNee (talk) 21:35, 11 December 2008 (UTC)