Talk:English-based creole languages

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 September 2018 and 31 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Emilybeagle.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:38, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Sorter broken, is this intentional?
When sorting in ascending order of approximate number of speakers, i.e. supposedly lowest count on top and highest count on bottom, it can be seen that Manglish (3mil - 5mil) is placed directly above Montserrat (3,820). Is this a quirk of Wikipedia number ordering in general? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 42.98.94.191 (talk) 16:37, 22 September 2022 (UTC)


 * It looks like each number of speakers entry is formatted haphazardly, which is causing issues with the sorting. I think it's reading the years as part of the totals in some way, and sorting in that order. I don't mess with tables, so I don't know the best fix. BilCat (talk) 19:59, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

Untitled discussion
Manglish and Singlish

Malaysia and Singapore are two independent countries. Is there any reason why both are placed under the same heading 'Malaysia'?

Manglish and Singlish
How can this article claim to get its classifications from Ethnologue when Manglish and Singlish clearly are not listed in Ethnologue.

Also how is it that only Manglish and Singlish are listed down for South-east Asia when there are 'truer' English-based pidgins in the Philippines such as Konyo, Enggalog, Taglish, etc..?

Furthermore, Manglish and Singlish are both actually just English spoken in their respective Malaysian and Singaporean accents coupled with some 'lah' end-of-sentence particles and other emphasis markers. It is an exaggeration to claim that Manglish and Singlish are actual pidgins and if there's any pidginization at all, well it is very very low.Vlag (talk) 12:15, 1 April 2008 (UTC)Vlag

Scots
Has anyone thought about giving Scots an "honorable mention"? Scots is not usually thought of as a creol, but the developement of Scots was very similar to creols, with the base language being Middle English. Technically this could make Scots possibly the oldest extant English-based creol. 173.188.36.135 (talk) 13:36, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

I was expecting to find English itself here, as in the Middle English creole hypothesis. --Acjelen (talk) 19:54, 30 March 2017 (UTC)


 * That's not an accepted theory, as that article states. - BilCat (talk) 20:12, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 27 August 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 16:57, 3 September 2020 (UTC)

English-based creole language → English-based creole languages – For WP:CONSISTENCY with French-based creole languages and Portuguese-based creole languages which are plural (or change them to match this). Gonnym (talk) 15:11, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * Support - Per WP:SINGULAR and WP:NCPLURAL. As an article about a class of languages, the plural form is recommended. BilCat (talk) 21:09, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Comments - In full disclosure, I was the person who moved this article from the plural to the singular, based on a misunderstanding of WP:SINGULAR. I didn't realize at the time that this article should be pluralized because it was about a class of languages. As such, I've no objection to a speedy close, and can move the article back myself if need be. Thanks. BilCat (talk) 21:39, 27 August 2020 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Clarifications for unfamiliar readers
The table of languages refers to L1 and L2 users. I presume this means use as a first or second language; but the fact that I am guessing is a good indicator that the use of L1 and L2 should be clarified. Either define them in the article, or spell out the term being abbreviated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.81.94.71 (talk) 13:51, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

List of Creoles and Pidgins??
If this is supposed to be a list of English-based creoles, why are there so many pidgins on it? For example why is Nigerian Pidgin on the same list as Sierra Leone Krio? What's the point of a "List of Pidgins" which rightly excludes all creoles, but create a "List of Creoles" which includes everything under the Sun?. I suggest we remove or transfer all pidgins from this page to the "List of Pidgins". An encyclopedia must distinguish between creoles, pidgins and mixed-languages so it doesn't confuse its readers. Creole languages are NOT Pidgins. Inamo11 (talk) 09:44, 12 July 2022 (UTC)


 * Nigerian Pidgin is considered a creole language. BilCat (talk) 10:04, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
 * If you look at the articles for these, you'll see that though, as they've evolved, they've kept the name "X Pidgin" from back when they were pidgins, these are generally described as creoles. Largoplazo (talk) 10:06, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Hawaiian Pidgin's status as a Pacific Pidgin
If anyone wants or needs a source to cite, John Holm's An Introduction to Pidgins and Creoles mentions Hawaiian Pidgin in its subsection on English-based Pacific pidgins and creoles. Linguistic classifications don't have to follow political boundaries, so Hawaii's status as a US state is irrelevant here. Erinius (talk) 01:49, 22 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the source, and for the reverts. BilCat (talk) 23:13, 22 December 2022 (UTC)