Talk:Ensemble (political coalition)

Translation as "Together Citizens"
"Ensemble Citoyens" translates as "Together Citizens", "Citizens Together" would rather be the translation of "Citoyens Ensemble". This page should probably be renamed. Julio 9 7 4 ◆ (Talk-Contribs) 11:23, 4 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I prefer "Citizens Together", but, as there are different views, what about dicussing here? --Checco (talk) 17:25, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

« Ensemble citoyen ! » is kind of like a rallying cry for citizens to join Macron. Citizens together don’t really convey that idea and seem to mean that this alliance is a bunch of citizens around Macron which is not the same think. So it’s why I think « Together citizens » is more appropriate. Jazerty268 (talk) 17:23, 27 December 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 28 March 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Favonian (talk) 18:29, 7 April 2022 (UTC)

Citizens Together → Ensemble Citoyens – The translation "Citizens Together", besides being probably wrong (the most correct translation seems to me "Together citizens!"), is also unused by the sources. In the absence of a certain translation or used by the sources, the title of this page should be the original name (also for consistency with Ensemble!). Scia Della Cometa (talk) 12:13, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:UE. Since the untranslated "Ensemble Citoyens" doesn't appear to be commonly used by English-language reliable sources, we translate it. 162 etc. (talk) 15:18, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * @162 etc.: WP:UE reads "translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy"; well "Citizens Together" is almost certainly an inaccurate translation of "Ensemble Citoyens!".--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 15:40, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * If that is the case, the solution is a better translation. 162 etc. (talk) 16:58, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support. We don't translate for the hell of it, especially if there is not a single accepted or accurate translation. This is a common misconception. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:22, 30 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Support - Per WP:UE, "In deciding whether and how to translate a foreign name into English, follow English-language usage. If there is no established English-language treatment for a name, translate it if this can be done without loss of accuracy and with greater understanding for the English-speaking reader." This does not have an established translation, particularly looking at these sources ([|1] [|2]) reliable sources are either not translating it or translating it differently to this. There therefore is no established English translation for this name. The present name loses accuracy (particularly the exclamation mark) and ahmpers understanding that this is a French organsiation that is being talked about. A GNews search for "Citizens Together" does not even bring up a relevant result for the French organisation in the first ten pages of results, whilst a search for the French name brings up only relevant results. FOARP (talk) 12:59, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Political positions/ideologies
LREM: Left (dated), Centrist and Third-Way,, Social Liberal, Reformist, Progressive, technocratic

MoDem: Centrist (water is wet)

EC: Ecologist/Green, Centre-Left, "social justice".

Territories & Progress: Left to Centre-Left,, Social democracy,

Progressive Federation: Left,, , 

Horizons (Édouard Philippe): Centre-Right,

EnlightenmentNow1792 (talk) 09:00, 19 April 2022 (UTC)

Centre to centre-right
I think the political position should be written "Centre" instead of "Centre to centre-right". Member parties range from center-right to center-left, and even green-affiliated left-wing party. The political position of the REN is also "Centre". Mureungdowon (talk) 07:06, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * There are reliable sources that refer the coalition as centre-right though, so whatever position is listed on their articles does not matter for this one. Vacant0 (talk) 11:52, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
 * However, the coalition is better described as "centrist". We should weigh sources... --Checco (talk) 21:28, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * There are only reliable sources that describe the coalition as either centrist or centre-right. Excluding any of these positions would be undue. Vacant0 (talk) 21:53, 8 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Some sources might be more reliable and numerous than others. Btw, by European standards, the coalition is centrist. --Checco (talk) 21:54, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree with Checco. Ensemble is overwhelmingly described as a centrist rather than a center-right. The French Wikipedia also describes the group as simply centrist. "Centre-right" should be removed from the infobox. Mureungdowon (talk) 08:02, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * That's not how it works. What matter is what reliable sources say and in this case both "centrist" and "centre-right" are backed up. Vacant0 (talk) 14:39, 23 December 2022 (UTC)
 * There are also sources for "centre-left". User:Mureungdowon is right that "Ensemble is overwhelmingly described as a centrist rather than a center-right". It is quite wrong to cite every sourced information, but only those that are overwhelmingly supported by reliable sources. --Checco (talk) 15:28, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Can you present those sources here? Vacant0 (talk) 15:32, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Of course some sources are more high-profile than others, by the way a quick search through Google gives thousands of hits for ""centrist ensemble" macron" and very few for "centre-right ensemble" macron". That "centrist" is much more common description than "centre-right" for this grouping is self-evident to me. --Checco (talk) 15:56, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I'm in favor of removing "centre-right" from the infobox (not the article) then. Vacant0 (talk) 15:59, 24 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I am not, because a majority of the seats of this coalition leans towards centre-right (Horizons 30 seats, Democratic Movement 47 seats, UDI 8 = total 85), not centre-left (En Commun 4, FP 2 = total 6). Renaissance might be centrist, but the total Together coalition leans towards centre to centre-right. 2A02:A447:6A8F:1:A05C:F6A5:B149:7BC4 (talk) 17:36, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Request to move (Ensemble Citoyens => Ensemble (coalition))
It seems that Ensemble changed the name, and it's reflected in the French Wikipedia article name, but not here. PorazonyCreeper (talk) 17:42, 20 December 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree. Probably, "Ensemble (political coalition)" or "Together (political coalition)" would be even better. I favour the latter. --Checco (talk) 15:58, 24 December 2022 (UTC)

Registered Name
Is the alliance registered as its current name with the relevant electoral commission? Or is it still registered as its former name? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:04, 9 February 2023 (UTC)

Liberalism / social-liberalism
Hi there is no source centered on Ensemble, but cf. Talk:Renaissance (French political party). Fourmidable (talk) 15:55, 5 August 2023 (UTC)


 * Yes, there is a consensus on that talk page to describe the party as simply liberal in the infobox. However, let's discuss there. --Checco (talk) 18:45, 5 August 2023 (UTC)

Start
The coalition in a nearly identical shape already ran in the 2021 French regional elections and 2019 European Parliament election in France I think it should be merged. The former Renaissance list is now even called "L'Europe Ensemble" Braganza (talk) 18:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)


 * Support this seems like a no-brainer, it's the same coalition, no? GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 12:41, 15 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support I don't see why it shouldn't. What are your views? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:40, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support. Yeah, these are basically the same construct, even if named slightly differently for specific elections (which is actually not a too rare event). Both articles should probably be merged, preserving as much info as possible.  Impru 20 talk 11:42, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support Agree --Vacant0 (talk) 12:52, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support it is well known as ensemble. DeadlyRampage26 (talk) 11:44, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 16 June 2024

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There is consensus to move per WP:COMMONNAME. (closed by non-admin page mover) voorts (talk/contributions) 21:41, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Together (coalition) → Ensemble (political coalition) – I don't recall seeing the coalition named as "Together" anywhere. I renamed it to its current name, thinking that all French pages used English translations (which I was mistaken). As a result, I've found more references to it being called Ensemble than Together. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 09:45, 16 June 2024 (UTC)


 * Strong support for a single article called Ensemble (political coalition) to merge Together (coalition) with L'Europe Ensemble. They are the same coalition and I see no reason why the name should be translated to the English "Together", seeing as a vast majority of English-speaking media uses the French name untranslated. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 06:07, 17 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Braganza, @Impru20, @Number 57, @Vacant0, @ValenciaThunderbolt, @Checco Can we all establish that consensus was reached to merge the articles and get that decision pushed through (ideally soon) and once the merge has gone through, continue to discuss the renaming of the article? GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 14:45, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * , we need to follow the instructions as said at WP:MERGECLOSE. Let's wait a day or two and then proceed with a closure if the outcome stays the same. Vacant0 (talk) 14:50, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sure, just wanted to make sure that all our opinions have stayed the same and that we'd all support a merge once the week has elapsed. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 14:55, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
 * @Braganza, @Impru20, @Number 57, @Vacant0, @ValenciaThunderbolt, @Checco, I think it's safe to say a strong consensus has been reached to merge the articles and a moderate consensus has been reached to change the article name, would you all agree? If so, who should do the honours? I don't believe I have the correct permissions to do so (or if so, I don't know how to). GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 17:29, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree Braganza (talk) 17:31, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Agree, but we should find a consensual name for the joint article before proceeding with the merger. --Checco (talk) 20:00, 26 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've already shown my support for @ValenciaThunderbolt's initial suggestion Ensemble (political coalition), as has @Braganza and @Scia Della Cometa, but you, @Checco, seem to oppose it. If consensus can't be reached for the initial suggestion, then I propose a compromise of Together (French political coalition), (although I would still prefer the original suggested name, as this one's quite wordy), if that will help get the merge completed. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 00:04, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The problem with such a suggestion is that it implies that there is another political coalition elsewhere in the world. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 13:32, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well as @Scia Della Cometa was quick to point out, there are other such coalitions out there, such as Together (Italy) and Spolu (Czech Republic). But I will reiterate, I'd greatly prefer Ensemble (political coalition) or even just Ensemble (coalition) (without the redirect that one currently behaves as), and if consensus can be reached without Checco's insistence on an English translation, I'd much prefer it. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 13:54, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Okay. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 14:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sources seem to use Ensemble more than Together, so per MOS:COMMONNAME the article of the title should be Ensemble. The disambiguator in this case should only be (political coalition), thus the full title of the article should be Ensemble (political coalition). There is nothing to disagree about this. Vacant 0  (talk &bull; contribs) 13:40, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * This is still my preference, and if clear consensus is possible amongst the participants excluding Checco, then perhaps we wouldn't have to compromise on the name, as I'd much prefer the name originally suggested to a variation of "Together". GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 13:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I support both "Together (France)" (consistent with Together (Italy)) and "Together (French coalition)" or variations of the theme. And yes I strongly oppose the French name as this is English Wikipedia. I am sure that also other users will agree. --Checco (talk) 19:40, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Well it looks to me like 5 people in this discussion are in favour of the French name (me, @Braganza, @Vacant0, @ValenciaThunderbolt, @Scia Della Cometa), 1 seems to be neutral or has otherwise neglected to show Support/Opposition, (@Impru20), and 1 seems to be against it, (@Checco). As Vacant0 has said, English-speaking sources overwhelmingly refer to it by its original name, Ensemble, and I imagine that's part of the reason why people are supporting the French name. Either way, it seems like a majority is in favour of a unified article under a new name. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 02:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I support the French name as well, as per WP:COMMONNAME.  Impru 20 talk 07:55, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * So @Impru20 would you say consensus has been reached despite @Checco's objections? Because I'd personally prefer to close this discussion sooner rather than later. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 08:01, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * There is a consensus for both options. Be bold and follow the instructions at WP:MERGECLOSE for the merger discussion. But for this discussion, anyone involved cannot close this one, we will have to wait for someone uninvolved to close this. Vacant 0  (talk &bull; contribs) 14:37, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I've closed the initial discussion that was solely about merging the articles, so for the Requested Move, shall I just add it to WP:CR to get a third party in here? GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 14:49, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Yes, indeed. Vacant 0  (talk &bull; contribs) 14:52, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge completed and move request added to WP:CR, thanks for the help, I really appreciate it. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 15:25, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

What are your views on renaming it? ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 09:50, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Soft support, also could participate in Braganza (talk) 09:52, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Sory, just corrected that actual proposed name. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:01, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I know its a different discussion but we should also discuss when the coalition was formed (2017, 2019, 2021 or 2022) Braganza (talk) 11:03, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Best to go by the official date, rather than the presidential majority (which has been used for UMP and PS). I think integrating the EE coalition is a good idea, as it revolves around LREM/RE. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:13, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Comment, maybe a merge would be due instead (as laid out at ).  Impru 20 talk 11:43, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It can, but in addition to it. ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 11:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * should you or i replace the notifications on the main articles with Braganza (talk) 12:49, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I will just do it Braganza (talk) 12:51, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for doing that for me. I went out the shops when you tagged me :) ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 13:27, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose: I oppose naming any article "Ensemble (political coalition)", while I support a unified article under the current name, that is "Together (coalition)". --Checco (talk) 18:08, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
 * I renamed it to the current name, as it hadn't been renamed around the time it changed name. I didn't realise until later that press sites used the name "Ensemble" rather than "Together". ValenciaThunderbolt (talk) 10:11, 18 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Support the current title of the page is wrong, since it is not the only political coalition whose translated name is "Together" (there is "Insieme" in Italy and "Spolu" in Czech Republic, for example).--Scia Della Cometa (talk) 09:43, 24 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose – would prefer "Together (French coalition)", or anything similar that disambiguates using the translated English language name Together.--Autospark (talk) 16:09, 29 June 2024 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New logo
I saw on social media and from videos of a recen party meeting that Ensemble has a new logo, how do we go about updating theinformation here?Rh0809 (talk) 13:25, 13 June 2024 (UTC)


 * I'd suppose that you find, acquire, or produce a copyright-free  or   image of the new logo, upload it to Wikimedia Commons and replace the file here with that one. GlowstoneUnknown (talk) 12:43, 15 June 2024 (UTC)