Talk:Entre la jeunesse et la sagesse

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Was one of the drummers "Jerry Conway" or "Gerry Conway"?
Dear fellow editors, I am leaving the present message out of courtesy to other editors interested in the present article. There is confusion in the sources about the correct spelling of the first name of the drummer who played on the tracks "Cheminant à la ville" and "Avant la Guerre": I would therefore conclude that the latter source (about "Gerry Conway") is evidently quite specific and thus more compelling than the other sources (about "Jerry Conway"), which suggest a spelling mistake by the record company, later compounded at allmusic.com. I have therefore reinstated this edit, which introduced the "Gerry Conway" spelling yesterday, with my apologies to for reverting his contribution before double-checking the sources. With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 02:57, 1 January 2017 (UTC)
 * the sleeve notes of both the LP and the later CD refer to 'Jerry Conway', and I also found a credit entry at allmusic.com for a "Jerry Conway" who played drums on the subject album;
 * I then also consulted Dane Lanken's book Kate and Anna McGarrigle Songs and Stories which shows a photograph, on page 83, with the following caption: "Just offstage at Kew Gardens, Toronto, August 1985 [...]. John Reissner (guitar), Pat Donaldson  (bass), Gerry Conway (drums) and Joel Zifkin (violin) are in the lineup with Kate, Jane and Anna. Gerry, an old band made of Pat's from English folk-rock days, drummed with Kate and Anna through much of the 1980s."


 * Jerry Conway v. Gerry Conway
 * Jerry Conway is credited on all issues of this record because that is how he signed his session sheets in 1979 at Morin Heights (a well-established studio). Why he did so is his business, and it's not appropriate to adjust his credit. I'm putting the credit back to Jerry.
 * StephenJPC (talk) 11:25, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Dear ,
 * Thank you for your contributions to this riddle. It's clear that his real identity is 'Gerry', as per the existing Wikipedia article. As you read above, I thought it was important to quote a more reliable source than the sleeve notes. However, if you have a source for the fact that "he signed his session sheets in 1979 at Morin Heights", then please consider adding it as an additional note, so that our encyclopedia is improved with all the various facts. Thank you, Stephen.
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 12:00, 27 March 2017 (UTC)

Album title
Patrick, you've reverted my edit to the original release history today, but you are mistaken. This album was originally released in Canada in May 1980 titled "Entre la jeunesse et la sagesse" on Kébec-Disc. In November that year it was released in the UK and US under the title "French Record" by Joe Boyd's Hannibal label with a different cover. It was subsequently released on CD by Rykodisc in the USA still titled as "French Record" and in Canada on La Tribu with the original title but Hannibal's cover design.

The article as it stands has a lot of errors. StephenJPC (talk) 17:01, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Here's a copy of the original May 1980 Canadian release: http://www.ebay.com/itm/KATE-ET-ANNA-McGARRIGLE-Entre-La-Jeunesse-et-la-Sagesse-LP-Kebec-Disc-KD-990-VG-/291790708192 StephenJPC (talk) 17:09, 12 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Dear ,
 * Thank you very much for correcting me, and for taking the time and trouble to provide further evidence of the complete history, including the Canadian title of which I was unaware. I bow to your greater knowledge and can only apologise for reverting your earlier edit. I would suggest that we consider creating a short section summarising this history (in the body of the article instead of the lead as done currently), including a citation for verifiability of the Canadian release, although I am currently unsure whether or not the link to eBay is acceptable. I will have more time on Tuesday and will be happy to assist you if you wish. Above all, I am so glad that you opened this discussion, which will help to improve the article for the benefit of our readers; thank you once again, Stephen.
 * With kind regards for now;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 17:52, 12 February 2017 (UTC)

Dear fellow editors; In addition to the new section on 'Release history' suggested above, I have applied several changes and provided new content with citations from reliable sources, all of which I hope will have improved the article. It turns out that the Lanken book proved a useful source for details about the two LP covers and their release dates (on page 59). ✅ With kind regards; Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 15:19, 15 February 2017 (UTC)


 * Patrick, thanks for your work. THe early reviews are very helpful.
 * I've now corrected the title of the piece to the correct original title of the album (which is of course different to that of the opening track) and removed the claim that it contains a pun. This is as per P59 of the Lanken book.


 * I'm not sure that there is any benefit in having the La Tribu cover included, since it gets the title wrong and feels a pretty slapdash effort. It leaves the article feeling more like fragments from a Record Collector piece than an encyclopedia entry.


 * Not quite sure why I'm seeing a warning displayed re. the title - if you know how to fix it I'd be grateful (or will it just go away of ots own accord?)
 * StephenJPC (talk) 10:51, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Dear ,
 * I fully agree with you that the title of the album was, originally, different from the title of the first track. It is therefore correct to reflect that simple and obvious fact in the title of the Wikipedia article. Thank you for taking that action, which has my support, although I suspect other editors might disagree, if they were to consider that the more recent CD carried the latest, and therefore final, incarnation of this title.
 * The point of my inclusion of the 'La Tribu' cover is simply to record the facts, as an encyclopedia should, even if the artwork designers made "a pretty slapdash effort", as you say. Our readers need to be informed about all these subtleties, including deviation in names ('Gerry' vs. 'Jerry') or titles ('La Jeunesse' vs. 'Lajeunesse'). It was the artists themselves who decided on such subtleties, as was their witty wont, and I daresay it is our duty as encyclopedists to make sure we record the facts, unfiltered by our own opinions, which would amount to WP:OR if we allow them to interfere with the facts.
 * In any case, our colleague has now intervened, and we need to take account of his contribution.
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 12:28, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Patrick, I'm sorry but I'm not going to waste any more time on this. You've managed to foul up this entry, and also the main Kate and Anna McGarrigle entry, by drawing false conclusions from your 'research'.
 * StephenJPC (talk) 13:38, 27 March 2017 (UTC)


 * Dear ,
 * And I am sorry that you seem upset when all I am aiming to do is help our readers with sourced clarifications of confusing facts:
 * the CD from La Tribu clearly shows that its title is the same as that of the first track, and therefore different from the title of the Canadian LP, which you so helpfully brought to my attention some time ago;
 * the article about Gerry Conway shows his birth name, as corroborated by Lanken, page 83, which I considered a reliable source. The fact that the album sleeve notes spelled it 'Jerry' is clarified in the note that I added to eliminate any possible confusion.
 * I am at a loss to understand what else I did wrong in your eyes, when I strove to adhere to our editorial obligations. If you still disagree, then please show me what you'd like to improve further, and I'll be more than happy to accept your reliable sources.
 * With kind regards;
 * Patrick. ツ Pdebee.(talk)(guestbook) 14:41, 27 March 2017 (UTC)