Talk:Environmental law/Archive 1

External Links - Suggestions
Removed a number of external links, and added ABA SEER. Suggest should include only (1) associations such as ABA or nonprofits focusing on development of environmental law; (2) primary governmental environmental organizations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ado2102 (talk • contribs) 23:00, 31 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Good work! There are also too many "see also" links, e.g. links to publications. Please take a look at these if possible. (I removed some a while back, but more pruning is needed.) Moreau1 (talk) 04:44, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

For File: Proposed merge with International Environmental Law
I intend to merge International environmental law into this page. I believe that "international environmental law" is appropriately considered a sub-topic of "Environmental law" and that all of the material that is currently on the IEL page can be properly incorporated into the EL page. Agree? Disagree? I will perform the merger in a few days if nobody objects.Ado2102 (talk) 22:35, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

P.S. By "perform this merger" I mean I will delete International environmental law and the other operations necessary for merger. For the time being, I will be updating this page to reflect my proposed incorporation of the content from the merger target. Ado2102 (talk) 23:55, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

See Alsos - Recommend None
I propose that the "See Also" category is inappropriate for a page intended to be a WikiProject Law portal, including the (now maimed, to be fixed) Environmental Law Template. The whole article is a big introductory See Also.Ado2102 (talk) 04:59, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Call for International Contributors
As in other law portal pages, this page should offer introductory perspectives on environmental law in various countries. My contributions will be from a U.S. perspective, because that is the only perspective I can offer. If you are dissatisfied with the coverage of a country and feel you can do better, PLEASE CONTRIBUTE. -Ado2102 (talk) 01:47, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

For file: Proposed move, deletion of List of environmental laws by country
It has been proposed that the List of environmental laws by country article, spun-off from this one, be moved out of Wikipedia article space to a WikiProject Environment project work page. See the 'Requested move' discussion at: (Discuss). Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 22:09, 1 December 2012 (UTC)


 * UPDATES: i) the Requested move referenced above was closed with "No consensus"; ii) the article now is proposed for deletion. Editors watching this article are invited to comment on this latest proposed action at Articles for deletion/List of environmental laws by country. Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:46, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

RESOLUTION: the proposed deletion has been closed with the decision, Keep. Thanks to editors of this article for input. DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 11:48, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Article lead
The opening sentence: "Environmental law is a collective term describing international treaties (conventions), statutes, regulations, and common law or national legislation..." while largely correct, is not sufficiently clear, I think, on the distinction between the different types of legal structures. I'm not a lawyer, but I would think there would be a particularly important distinction between a law and a regulation, the latter which could be changed by executive order within the scope of the law; the former, which could be changed only by a new law. Also, why the exclusive mention of national legislation? Today environmental law arguably goes from the global to the local, with many geopolitical levels in between. Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:44, 5 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Agree with comment re "national legislation". I disagree regarding making a point out of any substantive difference between law (i.e., legislation) and regulation - without getting too much into the weeds (regulations get changed by a pretty complex administrative law process subject to judicial review, for example), it's kind of an ephemeral distinction for a portal introduction. Revised opening sentence to get across the general idea. I'm a lawyer specializing in this area.

Ado2102 (talk) 08:18, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Revision Notes
Limited TOC to "2".

Added "Regulatory areas" sections for air quality, water quality, waste management, chemicals control, remediation and cleanup, species protection, water resources, mineral resources, scenic resources. Still need work but it's a start. This is really where the rubber has to hit the road with this page. Should be the bulk of the article, IMHO.

Trimmed and rearranged Elaw template to better match original idea for creating it (which I did).

Revised intro and history.

Ado2102 (talk) 08:27, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

I have revised the introduction to capture some level of generality. Plan to revise further.

Added an (incomplete) list of "areas of concern" in the field. Probably could use a sorting out, better categorization, whatever.

Removed the lengthy quote on environmental standing, did not seem appropriate for main portal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ado2102 (talk • contribs) 22:41, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Added a "Source" section and a list of federal environmental laws. May ultimately be advisable to move this to a separate page with a reference. There are too many state laws to list - will likely need to add something to that effect. I also revised the Education heading - described a standard introductory course, added a description of highest-cited law journals with cite, rearranged things. Ado2102 (talk) 21:14, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

I have revised the introduction and the Environmental Law template to reflect the pollution control/resource management divide in environmental law. For comments on the template change, see the template talk page.Ado2102 (talk) 19:47, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I moved a quip - tagged as neutrality disputed - regarding the effectiveness of environmental laws into its own heading near the bottom. The text needs to be revised and expanded, but I think this is a really interesting topic for further writing. I also wonder if anything should be written about the constant controversy in the enactment of environmental laws, and whether that should be combined with the effectiveness discussion. Ado2102 (talk) 21:18, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

Propose addition of controversy section, inclusion of this discussion there. Have added appropriate headings.Ado2102 (talk) 21:50, 31 December 2009 (UTC). -- Did that, took a stab at laying out issues for development in controversies section. Ado2102 (talk) 22:54, 31 December 2009 (UTC)

I have added brief History Section. -Ado2102 (talk) 01:47, 4 July 2012 (UTC) I have moved controversy to Section 2. -Ado2102 (talk) 01:47, 4 July 2012 (UTC) I have added some content to the China section. -Ado2102 (talk) 01:47, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Mission Statement
This page is intended to serve as the Wikipedia portal for the broader topic of environmental law. Please edit it to conform to other offerings in the WikiProject Law class. The point is to provide a neutral, general, broad-ranging, well-referenced, and well-linked introduction to the field. It is intended to work in conjunction with subtopical pages in (work in progress) Template: Environmental Law, such as Air quality law, Water quality law, etc., toward the broader purpose of better organizing Wikipedia's environmental law pages. Ado2102 (talk) 08:33, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Feel free to edit this mission statement. It's Wikipedia. -Ado2102 (talk) 01:47, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

Article structure and focus
As currently structured, this article is structured primarily on a geographical basis, organized into sections on international environmental law, national environmental law, etc. What's missing is quite evident in the sidebar navigation box: any discussion of any of the substantive areas within environmental law. It would be too much to do everything all in one article, but arguably this article should serve as the gateway for that. Suggestions on how best to do that? Thanks, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 14:56, 22 February 2013 (UTC)

This has always been the intent and I have now added brief introductory sections ("Regulatory area"). I have pulled from existing Wikipedia structure for a lot of cross-references. I am struggling to decide whether the page and topic are better served by separate subportal pages (e.g., "air quality law," which has grown quite nicely, and "waste law", which has not) or topical pages (e.g., remediation and cleanup currently links to "Environmental remediation" rather than "Cleanup law" or some such). Work in progress. Ado2102 (talk) 08:33, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Important principles section
In an effort to add a little gravity to the whole affair, and because it's a fairly important and interesting part of this field, I have added a major section on "Important principles". As usual, I have endeavored to provide "neutral, general, broad-ranging, well-referenced, and well-linked" material. As will be obvious if you look it through, it relies primarily on a single source - the UNEP Training Manual, which struck me as a great summary and good reference point. No doubt there are many others. I hope what I have added will form a useful basis for further work. Ado2102 (talk) 04:52, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Unwieldy?
In its current form, this is a rather unwieldy & cumbersome article in my opinion. The central part of it is one long List of environmental laws by country. This arguably has merit in and of itself, but weighs down the article as a whole, I think. I would recommend spinning it off to a separate list article. Good idea? DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 10:15, 25 October 2012 (UTC)


 * To address the above-referenced problem, I've created a new, spin-off article, List of environmental laws by country. Directly related material from this article will be deleted, and a cross-reference made. Regards, DA Sonnenfeld (talk) 02:05, 18 November 2012 (UTC)


 * I have since added significant additional content to this article - the regulatory areas and important principles sections. I have attempted to keep things "wieldy" by separating substantive areas into separate articles and transcluding only the opening paragraphs to this article (work ongoing). I added the principles wholesale because most of them did not have their own articles. The international material is kind of a disaster but it still seems like a good way to provide an opportunity for further development of country-specific articles (where material ought probably to be moved whenever possible) so I have left it alone for now. Let this be the place for future concerns regarding the article's length and readability.Ado2102 (talk) 05:01, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

History section
I have moved the history section from the first to the third section (between principles and controversy). Thinking: historical information is useful but describing what is regulated and the principles of regulation are more immediately relevant to today's world. Agree/disagree? Ado2102 (talk) 20:11, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Anybody with special expertise in the history want to tackle expanding this section? It could use it.Ado2102 (talk) 20:11, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Isn't this a bit U.S.-centric?
It seems to me that a lot of the content here should be moved to United States environmental law. As an American, I am proud that the United States is a leader in environmental law, but I am also aware of the fact that the English Wikipedia is used by persons from many other countries outside of the United States, and that many countries have since advanced ahead of the United States in some aspects of environmental law (notably global warming). --Coolcaesar 19:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Coolcaesar that this is US-centric, but I do not see that as a structural flaw, but rather a symptom. For the time being, it is US-centric because its primary contributions appear to have been American. For example, I am an attorney in the United States specializing in environmental law. To the extent that English-speaking contributors can add detail about the environmental regulatory systems of any other countries, I truly hope they will. To that end, I have attempted to restructure the article so that discussions of other countries may be more easily added. If you know anything about another country's system, please add it! Regarding the similarities between this page and the United States Environmental Law (aka Environmental policy of the United States), I think they can co-exist peacefully. Frankly, I am not sure what the other article is supposed to be about - is it a history of environmental regulation in the United States? Is it a discussion of US environmental "policy"? Is it a critical discussion of the federalism issues that plague US environmental law? I don't know. This page, on the other hand, is meant to be an introductory portal to the big, big world of environmental "law." To that end, I've added the Administrative and Enforcement sections. I think these might ultimately spawn "Legislation" and "Judicial Review" sections, I don't know yet. Since there is already an International Environmental Law page, I left a reference only, although perhaps they should be combined. Ado2102 (talk) 19:21, 29 December 2009 (UTC)

I came here to make precisely the same observation but I think it behoves other contributors to build on this to bring the perspectives of other jurisdictions. In time I would like to do just that. BroVic (talk) 08:45, 8 July 2016 (UTC) BroVic (talk) 08:45, 8 July 2016 (UTC)

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