Talk:Environmental migrant

Legal status of the term
This article seems to be largely an ad hoc attempt to define the term "climate refugee." The UN's Inter-Agency Standing Committee says about this term:


 * ''In international or regional refugee law a refugee is a person, who meets the criteria under the applicable refugee definition provided for in international or regional refugee instruments, UNHCR’s mandate, and/or in national legislation.


 * Environmental factors that cause movements across international borders are not grounds, in and of themselves, for the grant of refugee status under the 1951 Refugee Convention. The terms “environmental refugee” and “climate refugee” therefore have no legal basis in international refugee law, and it is recommended that they not be used in official or unofficial documentation. Their use could potentially undermine the international legal regime for the protection of refugees, misdescribe what are projected to be essentially internal movements, and create confusion regarding the link between climate change, environmental degradation and migration. (emphasis mine -TS)

Source: Climate Change, Migration and Displacement: Who will be affected Working paper submitted by the informal group on Migration/ Displacement and Climate Change of the IASC - 31 October 2008

I think it's important to recognise this. Not that people won't be displaced by climate change, but that the term "climate refugee" is not that well defined. --TS 16:02, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Categories
My mistake in removing Category:Climate change, as I'm proposing the "named" category be deleted. — Arthur Rubin (talk) 16:38, 21 May 2010 (UTC)

Article bias
This article, in some spots, reads more like a subjective critique of literature than like an objective, encyclopedia-style entry. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.14.253.159 (talk) 15:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Much of the neocon bias can be traced to this edit.--Anders Feder (talk) 06:13, 21 August 2015 (UTC)

Who Moved My Cheese? relevant?
Who Moved My Cheese? relevant? 99.35.15.199 (talk) 04:13, 10 October 2011 (UTC)

resource Nature (journal) Climate change: Migration as adaptation
Climate change: Migration as adaptation Mobility can bring opportunities for coping with environmental change, say Richard Black, Stephen R. G. Bennett, Sandy M. Thomas and John R. Beddington. Nature (journal) 478, 447–449 (20 October 2011) doi:10.1038/478477a

99.35.15.107 (talk) 04:46, 28 October 2011 (UTC)

Machine-generated un-decipherable cryptex found in the article, of probable US neocon origin.
>Conceptual problems and criticism Much of the literature produced on 'environmental migration' assumes the nexus to be self-evident. The category is both emotive and commonsensical, and therefore has widespread currency in the media and among policy makers, non-social scientists and neo-Malthusianist social scientists. However, there is no evidence that the concept can be used to achieve generalisable truths. In brief, this is because the degree to which any given environmental factor is meaningful at the societal level - let alone to any specific aspect of human activity, such as migration - is entirely conditional on socio-economic and political contingencies. In other words, it is impossible to isolate a single environmental factor as an independent variable from which to deduce its impact on a particular (or general) form of social outcome in any way that will be generalisably useful; the relationship will be different depending on circumstance. <

This whole paragraph in the current article is pure excrement. If one's island sticks out only one meter / yard from the ocean and has been for millennia, with natives living merrily under the palm trees and then excessive USA automobilism makes sea rise 1.5 meters via global warming, then the natives must leave, else their babies would all drown. They must find a new higher place to settle and no legalistic-sounding mumbo-jumbo can whitewash that fact. Why, oh why WP needs to be a watchtower and loudhorn-equipped minaret of the US political far right of the shaliest oil? The article should change out of shame! 82.131.210.163 (talk) 10:59, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

The same person has inserted undeniable bias into the article. Here's the sentence: "A documentary entitled Climate Refugees has been released, which engages uncritically with the neo-malthusian understandings of the climate change-migration nexus." This is the point at which this person's contributions can safely be deleted on POV grounds alone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.147.210.162 (talk) 20:56, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

Referencing the recent Foresight report
Full disclosure: I work for Foresight

Hi,

I'd like to alert the editors/maintainers to the recent report published by UK Government's Foresight Programme titled Migration and Global Environmental Change. This report is relevant to the discussion and was well received in the media and the wider science community. It is a fair and balanced assessment of the state of climate change and global migration.

Thanks Dan

Happydan.uk (talk) 12:20, 27 March 2012 (UTC)

MTA Peer Review
You succeeded in improving the content of the article with valid information from important sources! You also improved the structure of the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emmawilson15 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 3 April 2012 (UTC)

Student Review
This article would be more comprehensible and representative of the current conditions among climate refugees if there was a section the distinguishes those who are displaced by acute disasters, such as wildfires in fire corridors, from those who are displaced because of chronic and accumulating hazards, such as rising water levels from climate change. Ghv2 (talk) 01:49, 16 September 2016 (UTC)Geneva 9/15/16

The lead section is clear and detailed, but could be a little more concise. Start a new sentence after “secure livelihood”, as opposed to using a period. I feel that the phrase “despite problems in formulating a uniform and clear-cut definition of ‘environmental migrant’” is unnecessary. Other than those few grammatical tweaks, it is a thorough, well-written lead section. Well done.

The structure is clear, and the order of subtitles makes sense and has a good flow.

The coverage appears to be balanced. Remember that it is important to not draw information too much from a single source. For example, the entire subsection of “Types” is based from a single source, and could be more balanced by imputing information from a variety of sources.

Otherwise, there are many other reliable sources that were provided, and the article is very informative and “encyclopedic”. Hannaheaton (talk) 05:40, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Politics150 University of Arizona
For our group project, we are going to contribute to the wikipedia article Environmental Migrants.

I would like to contribute information relating to the definition of an environmental migrant/refugee (and how it is different from that of a regular migrant/refugee) which I believe will be addressed in the opening paragraph or so. That being said, it can get potentially fuzzy at times to clearly define. I also think the term migrant doesn't necessarily envelop the definition of someone who is forced to move from their home (they would stay if the environmental changes weren't causing a lower quality of life) because of the environmental impact. I would also like to explore the effect that it is taking for our country (Alaska) and other countries (small island developing states). Within the context of the Small island developing states, I would like to discuss the difference between slow onset (sea level rise) and more immediate issues that occur (natural disaster). Ahouchin01 (talk) 06:27, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Barth, Brian. "Before It's Too Late." Planning 82.8 (2016): 14-20. Academic Search Complete. Web. 11 Feb. 2017.

Citizens Of Sinking Islands: Early Victims Of Climate Change." Indiana Journal Of Global Legal Studies 23.2 (2016): 819-838. Academic Search Complete. Web. 11 Feb. 2017. Ahouchin01 (talk) 06:20, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

Warren, Phillip Dane. "Forced Migration After Paris Cop21: Evaluating The "Climate Change Displacement Coordination Facility." Columbia Law Review 116.8 (2016): 2103-2144. Academic Search Complete. Web. 11 Feb. 2017.

Koubi, Vally, Sebastian Stoll, and Gabriele Spilker. "Perceptions Of Environmental Change And Migration Decisions." Climatic Change 138.3/4 (2016): 439-451. Academic Search Complete. Web. 10 Feb. 2017. Ahouchin01 (talk) 06:24, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

http://www.unhcr.org/en-us/research/working/3ae6a0d00/environmental-refugees-myth-reality-richard-black.htmlAhouchin01 (talk) 03:00, 17 February 2017 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/22/environmental-refugees-50_n_826488.htmljoedibella97 (talk) 10:18 17 February 2017

I think this is a great addition to the page. I do not know much about the difference between migrant and refugee, so I think it would be a good distinction to mention. Courtbnt (talk) 20:02, 22 February 2017 (UTC)

I also believe this will be great information to add to the page. One thing I might suggest is any play environmental economics and/or capitalism might have any effects on this issue. Hstandley (talk) 02:58, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

It may be worthwhile to add more context to the rise of climate refugees in the public eye, and concerns for this phenomena as being important on a greater time scale than recent memory given such older documentaries as "An Inconvenient Truth" give some mention of this potential under the context of global change. The political effects of this may also require some expansion or even another article given the far reaching impacts of this article. Ldavidson1 (talk) 06:50, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

I agree with the past comments made, your plans for editing the current state of the article are well thought out and you have a wide variety of sources. One thing I would suggest is to be careful not to bog down your contributions while using so many sources. I'm not sure if it is discussed within your sources but I would also suggest looking into how current neoliberalist policies affect mirgant. Jrobles2795 (talk) 21:31, 23 February 2017 (UTC)

Three types of environmental migrants very confusing
In three different places are the three types of environmental migrants (IOM) mentioned and every time they are described and called slightly differently. Could there be one section where this is covered in detail rather than touching it at different places? I tried to make sense of it but want to avoid that I write something wrong. Many thanks, Michtrich (talk) 18:29, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

Recent data
"further claiming that this figure could double by 2010, with an upper limit of 200 million by 2050 (Myers 1997)"

Why 1997?

Need more up to data. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stefek99 (talk • contribs) 10:57, 16 September 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Student Review
After evaluating and reviewing the article, I had a few questions and suggestions about how to improve the flow and information provided.

1. Under the section “Global perceptions from possible countries of asylum”, the sentence “The United States, which was warned under the Obama administration to prepare for climate change and the refugees, may have more difficulties being prepared to do so under current President Donald Trump” is cited with two separate articles, but nether mentions Donald trump or his policies.

2. Under enumeration section, the information seems unbalanced. There is a lot of information on Asia/Pacific and less on North America and South America, and no information provided on Africa.

3: The types of migrants is confusing. Are there 3 types, or 6 types? This section should be condensed into 3 different types, and suggest alternate names for each. For example: Pressured environmental migrants, also called environmental motivated migrants, are people who choose to leave to avoid possible future problems. The current layout is confusing to the reader and is redundant.

4.Having a separate section for definitions seems repetitive because the introduction already defines environmental migrants. It might make more sense to have that section called something like “Legal Definition”.

5. In the section “perspective of countries taking immigrants”, it seems unbalanced to only have the UK represented. Perhaps there could be more information on other countries taking environmental migrants.

MariahKunz (talk) 20:55, 12 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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External links modified (January 2018)
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Removed blog section from definition
I removed the following: The United Nations Environment Programme had used the terminology "climate refugees" in its 2005 estimates of people displaced due to climate change, but this information had been removed been removed from the website in 2011.

It has been removed because the source is a blog, and I haven't yet been able to find an RS to back up the statement or to establish notability. Copied here for future reference. Jlevi JleviUser talk:Jlevi|talk]]) 21:02, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Proposed edit
Hello my name is Ashley, and I am a PJHC student at Rice University. I was hoping to add another section to this article detailing the environmental migrants from countries like the Middle East as well as current policies combatting environrmental refugees. Please check out my talk page to know more. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atsang99 (talk • contribs) 16:03, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Hey Ashley! Sounds great. Looks like you've made solid contributions in the past, and I look forward to seeing your additions. This sounds like a valuable addition to the page. If you need any help with research, copy-editing, or navigating Wikipedia policy, please don't hesitate to reach out. Jlevi (talk) 16:25, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Restructure Article
I feel this article could use some restructuring. For one, there is no section on history or the origin of the concept of environmental migrants. That is definitely needed. The enumeration section currently makes up the bulk of the article, and the enumeration of environmental migrants in the US focuses on a handful of seemingly arbitrary states. This section could use restructuring too. VM98 (talk) 17:52, 28 November 2020 (UTC)

Adding New Section - Central American Environmental Migrants
Hi All!

I am a student at Chapman University and I'm working on adding a section for this article on Central American environmental migrants. Currently there is only one line that refers to Central America and it is under the South America section. I believe that Central America needs its own section because there is growing evidence that climate change is affecting this region and causing homelessness and displacement among the people. I will be drawing from the book, Rising Tides: Climate Refugees in the Twenty-First Century, by John R. Wennersten and Denise Robbins. Wennersten is professor emeritus of environmental history at the University of Maryland, Eastern Shore. Robbins, a graduate of Cornell University, is a writer and communications expert on climate change issues. Their book was published by the Indiana University Press. Specifically, I will be adding information that concerns the countries of El Salvador, Panama, Guatemala, Honduras, and the Dominican Republic. I will add basic information about weather in the region and also the effects of climate change on the land and people, including concrete data and reports done by trusted international organizations such as the United Nations. Lastly, I will describe the current state of the debate on environmental migration in this region, which is still in its infancy and developing quickly. Altogether, this should be around 200-300 words. I invite your feedback on this Talk page or on my Talk page. Thanks! Stjjones (talk) 18:37, 29 November 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 6 June 2021

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Not moved. After much-extended time for discussion, there is no consensus for a move at this time, and more likely a consensus against moving. BD2412 T 03:43, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

Environmental migrant → Climate refugee – This seems to be the most common term by far, judging from NGRAMS and Google Scholar results. I can see the argument that climate hasn't yet been recognized as a way to achieve legal refugee status, but I don't think that outweighs the much greater WP:RECOGNIZABILITY of using the clear common name. (t · c)  buidhe  05:07, 6 June 2021 (UTC)


 * So I have been thinking about this article for a while: I think there is a fork that needs to happen here -- environmental migrants can be caused by a number of things: locusts, a big hurricane comes through and swamps your water, Tsunamis, etc -- each exist for a number of reasons other than changes in climate and have happened many different ways over generations (think dust bowl).
 * However, the current climate crisis creates a new wave of human migration. The proper terms in the scholarship that I have seen in the last few years is focused on Climate change and human mobility (see for example https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-019-0657-8) -- but as you say the more common concept is probably "Climate migrant" with "climate refugee" and "climate change and human mobility" as redirects that are merged into it -- climate refugee implies that the choice is never consensual -- whereas most movement happening now is happening well ahead of catastrophic or dangerous climate change (think folks leaving New Orleans or Miami for processes related to wanting more secure property -- they aren't "refugees"). Sadads (talk) 23:35, 8 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose just to clear the process. See discussion. Andrewa (talk) 12:27, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Weak oppose I agree with Sadads' assessment about a possible fork. My understanding is that researchers in the field prefer to use accurate terms not only because the legal concept of a climate refugee doesn't (yet) exists, but also because it carries the wrong implications about the type of policy needed (refugees from sudden disasters vs more long-term disruption). As such, I'd say the accuracy criterion weights more heavy than the common name one for me. FemkeMilene (talk) 20:09, 13 June 2021 (UTC)


 * Oppose The "Grapes of Wrath" example at the end is not related to global warming. Also internal migrants are not "refugees" as far as I know. For example Saddam draining the marshes in Iraq. Chidgk1 (talk) 11:12, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Discussion
As indicated above, there is quite a lot of work to do here, and I don't think this proposed move is a good start. I note 14:30, 27 March 2010‎ Mauro Bieg talk contribs block‎ 35 bytes +35‎  moved Climate refugee to Environmental migrant: "Environmental migrant" is the most general and least controversial term So there would be a case for reverting this move if it had been recent, but it's not.

Agree that a fork is necessary. Possibly more than one. See how that turns out before thinking of any move. Andrewa (talk) 12:27, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
 * FYI at IPCC it is WG2 that writes about the effects of climate change. In the most recent assessment report,  AR6, the glossary does not contain the word "refugee" even in the text of the definitions.  But there is a listing for "Environmental Migration" which says....
 * Human migration involves movement over a significant distance and duration. Environmental migration refers to human migration where environmental risks or environmental change plays a significant role in influencing the migration decision and destination. Migration may involve distinct categories such as direct, involuntary, and temporary displacement due to weather-related disasters; voluntary relocation as settlements and economies become less viable; or planned resettlement encouraged by government actions or incentives. All migration decisions are multi-causal, and hence it is not meaningful to describe any migrant flow as being solely for environmental reasons.
 * Things I noted, in relation to the prior discussion in this thread, the definition includes the example of people leaving NOLA for other places in the US as well as people forced to cross international borders due to catastrophic events. If editors spent time and effort to move this article to GA status, that effort will tell us if there is sufficient climate refugee material to merit a sub article with that focus. NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 11:29, 3 July 2021 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Main picture
Would it be possible to change the main picture representing environmental migrants showing a woman who nourishes her child with her breast looking straight into the camera?

I do not think that a picture where a woman nourishes her child, with the breast being exposed and seen while looking posing straight into the camera is a proper type of human representation of environmental migration, nor a suitable depiction of any kind of information, not even nourishing a child. As exposing the breast while looking into the camera is not just tasteless, but breaching any form of known evolutionary intimacy between a mother and her child.

Alone that I have to explain it one a Wikipedia page is a concerning issue.

I sincerely hope that adult western people with sanity and analytical capability agree and see it done that the main picture will be changed.
 * I have changed the image, not because of the breastfeeding question but because it was from 1936 and wasn't really a good representation of "environmental migrant". I think it might be better to create a collage of 4 images for the lead. EMsmile (talk) 12:55, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Suggestion to split off "climate migrant" into sub-article
I am suggesting to create a sub-article called "climate migrant" (I took note of the previous discussion on renaming this article to "climate refugee" which was rejected). Climate migration has a more mixed acute and protracted dynamic than environmental migration in the traditional sense. The scholarships are also different. It's similar to why it's important to separate environmental justice and climate justice. Objections or support? EMsmile (talk) 12:59, 24 March 2022 (UTC)


 * I suggest that this a good idea! I have been wanting to do this for a while but its a complex task, because the current article muddles the ideas, Sadads (talk) 12:14, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Do you already have a clear picture which are the main sections from where content would have to be moved to a new "climate migrant" article, apart from the section that is currently called "climate migrant"? EMsmile (talk) 13:00, 28 March 2022 (UTC)
 * I've now moved some content to the "climate migrant" section in preparation for the split. It seems to me that 80% of the article is actually about "climate migrant" and would have be moved to the spin-off article. Am I on the right track here? EMsmile (talk) 17:11, 4 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I have carried out the split now. The remaining text for "environmental migrant" is fairly short. EMsmile (talk) 08:27, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

Footnote about ""Environmental migrant" and "climate refugee" are used somewhat interchangeably"
There is this footnote in the first sentence which we'd have to change if we split it into two articles: "Environmental migrant" and "climate refugee" are used somewhat interchangeably with a range of similar terms, such as ecological refugee, environmental refugee, forced environmental migrant, environmentally motivated migrant, climate change refugee, environmentally displaced person (EDP), disaster refugee, environmental displacee, eco-refugee, ecologically displaced person, or environmental-refugee-to-be (ERTB). The term climate exiles has been used to refer to those climate migrants who may be in danger of becoming stateless. The distinctions between these terms remain contested."

Wikipedia Ambassador Program course assignment
This article is the subject of an educational assignment at Mount Allison University supported by WikiProject Anthropology and the Wikipedia Ambassador Program&#32;during the 2012 Q1 term. Further details are available on the course page.

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