Talk:Epping, New South Wales

reverting edits by anon user
I have reverted some recent edits for the following reasons:

- AFAIK, the channel 7 studios are in Epping, not 'the Epping Carlingford area'. Let's be specific. Is there something about the Carlingford connection I am missing? it seems to be included only so the carlingford article can claim some ownership of the studios.

- there is no such show mentioned anywhere on the internet called 'home and away- holiday coast'. There is one called 'home and away', which we have an article about, and should link to.

- i've changed 'sydney's seven local tv' to seven network. it's not just a local tv station.

- the linked article says that the studios will move to Redfern in 2008. i can't find anything to back up the comment that they moved to pyrmont in 2005. if they did, the linked article should be changed as well.

- 'formerly' is not the same word as 'formally.'

please consider these issues, and discuss here before making any reversions WotherspoonSmith 13:50, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

Upper north shore
Epping is in the Upper north shore, not lower. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.219.205 (talk) 14:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Do you have a source for that? Is there some classification for the different areas? If there is, we/ you can quote it, otherwise, it's a hard assertion to make. Last time I was in Epping, I felt like I was a long, long way from any shoreline, so either classification sounds a bit suss to me.WotherspoonSmith (talk) 14:29, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

It is going by the fact that most realestate sites (www.myhome.com.au, www.realestate.com.au) claim Epping to be in the Upper north shore- in similar stead as Pymble, Turramurra, Cheltenham and Beecroft. I agree that there is no shoreline near any of the suburbs that I just listed, however it is still considered the Upper North shore.

Currently, Epping is listed as LOWER north shore which is absolutely false. It is not in the Hills district either as it is also listed as Baulkham hills shire starts approximately at North Rocks. It is a hard suburb to classify as 3 different councils administer different areas of the suburb (Parramatta, Ryde and Hornsby councils).

But the point I am trying to make is that the current article isnt completely factual as it currently lists the suburb as lower north shore- if anything, it is upper. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.30.219.205 (talk) 11:30, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Hi there, I have seen some unusual statistics about the suburb Epping ? Epping is far away from western Sydney I have been a resident for 60 years and am very confused about the arguments on this page Macquarie University has identified Epping as north shore argueably and I think this should be added that Epping is argueably part of the upper north shore. this has been my home for so many decades and I ran business locally where it was stated that it is the north shore ? AusMedicalsoci1953 (talk) 08:13, 7 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Hello, . Can you provide a source to support your statement that "Macquarie University has identified Epping as north shore"? According to the sources in North Shore (Sydney), the North Shore does not extend west of the Lane Cove River.  There is a separate region called the "Northern Suburbs" which does include Epping.  However, that's not the end of the story.  The Greater Western Sydney region includes everything in the City of Parramatta Local Government Area, and since the June 2016 council amalgamations that includes Epping.  So Epping can be included in both of those regions - but not the North Shore.--Gronk Oz (talk) 14:35, 7 February 2018 (UTC)

Local Government Areas
There is disagreement about whether any part of Epping falls within Ryde LGA.

The NSW Department of Local Government web site http://www.dlg.nsw.gov.au/ has “Suburb Search” and “Local Council Search” tools which both say that Epping falls within three different councils: Hornsby, Parramatta and City of Ryde. It gives no details about which part of Epping is in Ryde LGA, and a phone conversation with their office was not able to clarify that point.

However, the following sources show none of Epping is within Ryde LGA:
 * City of Ryde’s Web site at http://www.ryde.nsw.gov.au/About+Ryde/Profile/City+Profile#suburbs
 * Phone conversation with the Council of the City of Ryde.
 * NSW Department of Land and Property Information (phone conversation)
 * cadastral maps

So there's the problem – the DLG, which should be the primary source, claims that Ryde covers some unspecified part of Epping, while every other source, including Ryde council itself, contradicts that.

As a new contributor to Wikipedia, can anybody more experienced offer a suggestion of how to document this? Gronk Oz (talk) 02:44, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

UPDATE: On 24 March 2014, I received an email reply from Penelope McKay, Senior Communications Officer, Operations Group, Office of Local Government. She writes: "The dataset we currently use to display the information [on the DLG website], is currently out of date and is no longer maintained ... the data is outdated and may display incorrect details. In its current state, the Suburb Search tool should be used for information purposes only as its accuracy cannot be guaranteed."

And "I would recommend contacting LPI [Division of Land and Property Information] to obtain correct information about boundary, suburb and postcode details within NSW Local Government Areas. LPI is the custodian of this data..."

Unfortunately, LPI's Web site at http://www.lpi.nsw.gov.au does not have this information in any accessable way; you have to negotiate to buy the data from them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gronk Oz (talk • contribs) 02:05, 25 March 2014 (UTC)


 * Resolution: In June 2016, council amalgamations caused all of Epping to be in Parramatta LGA.--Gronk Oz (talk) 02:35, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Is the Politics section needed?
The infobox at the top already contains the information about all three levels of government.

So is there any reason to double up by copying that information in the body as well? --Gronk Oz (talk) 16:06, 25 March 2014 (UTC)

Move Channel Seven to History?
I suggest that the reference to the old Channel Seven studios should be moved out of the "Commercial Area" section, and into History.

The studios have not existed for several years, and they were never in the business district of Epping anyhow. So I struggle to see how they belong in that section now.

Views or comments, anybody? If I don't hear anything to the contrary then I will go ahead and make the change. --Gronk Oz (talk) 06:14, 15 April 2014 (UTC)


 * ✅ I kept the text, adding the word "television" to be clear what kind of studios they were, and moved it to History. --Gronk Oz (talk) 07:57, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

State electorate(s) for Epping
There was a recent change to add the Electoral district of Ryde as an extra state electorate for Epping. However, there was no reference to support this, and it conflicts with both the Wikipedia article for Electoral district of Ryde and also with the New South Wales Electoral Commission's electoral boundary maps here. So I have reverted that change for now; if there is some supporting documentation for the change then please post it here so we can discuss.--Gronk Oz (talk) 04:09, 16 April 2015 (UTC)


 * ✅ Thanks to the anonymous IP editor who provided details of the updated electoral boundaries. Comparing them shows a small area on the southern side of Chesterfield Road that is in Epping, and falls within the Electorate of Ryde.--Gronk Oz (talk) 04:01, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Epping, New South Wales. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.planning.nsw.gov.au/Plans-for-Your-Area/Priority-Growth-Areas-and-Precincts/Epping-and-Macquarie-Park-Urban-Renewal-Area/Epping-Town-Centre
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140623205411/http://www.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/community/local-facilities/community-centres/community-centres/epping-community-centre to http://www.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/community/local-facilities/community-centres/community-centres/epping-community-centre
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20130606130511/http://www.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/recreation-and-facilities/community-centres/community-centres/epping-community-centre to http://www.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/recreation-and-facilities/community-centres/community-centres/epping-community-centre
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140416185048/http://www.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/community/local-facilities/community-centres/community-centres/epping-creative-centre to http://www.hornsby.nsw.gov.au/community/local-facilities/community-centres/community-centres/epping-creative-centre
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140622094308/http://www.parracity.nsw.gov.au/play/sports_and_recreation/parks_and_reserves2/boronia_park to http://www.parracity.nsw.gov.au/play/sports_and_recreation/parks_and_reserves2/boronia_park
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140622094504/http://www.parracity.nsw.gov.au/play/sports_and_recreation/parks_and_reserves2/duncan_park to http://www.parracity.nsw.gov.au/play/sports_and_recreation/parks_and_reserves2/duncan_park
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Distance between suburbs and central business district of city
Hi there, I’ve noticed many suburb articles for Sydney use different measures for distance between the suburb and the CBD. Seems like for Epping it’s done by distance with roads, other nearby suburbs the distance is measured directly from end to end. Which way is the best method to add to the article?
 * I’ve also noticed Wahroonga being further north, says it’s the same distance as Epping from the CBD however Epping is closer by direct distance. Just an example. Cheers. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 01:20, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Region(s) of Sydney for Epping
Background - One editor has persistently removed all references to Epping being in the Western Sydney region, regardless of supporting references, insisting that it should be classified exclusively as Northern Sydney. My position is that the sources show it is definitely in Western Sydney, and is ALSO sometimes called as Northern Sydney. As noted in Regions of Sydney, these regions are largely informal so it is reasonable that somewhere in the north-west like this could be classified as both; we need to look for reasonable usage. So rather than disrupt the article, let's get a consensus here based on actual references.

I have since noticed that this issue also applies to Eastwood, Carlingford, (and perhaps other suburbs?).

Proposed wording - "Epping is located in the Western Sydney region and sometimes it is also referred to as being in the Northern Sydney region."

Note that this is similar to Dundas Valley, which is also in Parramatta LGA, which says "Dundas Valley is part of the Northern Sydney and Greater Western Sydney regions."

Support:
 * At local government level, Epping is in the City of Parramatta local government area – this has been the case since council amalgamations in 2016.
 * The City of Parramatta LGA is in Western Sydney, being in the Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils.
 * This is also consistent with Wikipedia’s article on Western Sydney which states that "Western Sydney, which has a number of different definitions, although the one consistently used is the region composed of ten local government authorities, most which are members of the Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils (WSROC)."


 * At state government level, Epping is covered by the Minister for Jobs, Investment, Tourism and Western Sydney. The Parliament of NSW's Western Sydney: An Economic Profile has a specific section on "Defining Western Sydney" which says: "...the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) definition, as limited by their labour force regions... was chosen in order to provide the most up-to-date employment data. Consequently, Western Sydney in this paper consists of 12 Local Government Areas (LGAs): Auburn; Blacktown; Blue Mountains; Camden; Campbelltown; Fairfield; Hawkesbury; Holroyd; Liverpool; Parramatta; Penrith; and Wollondilly."  The whole of the Parramatta LGA is included, so Epping is included.
 * The NSW Health Department also specifically defines Western Sydney to include the City of Parramatta LGA (and so includes Epping).
 * At federal government level the Department of Industry, Science, Energy and Resources includes the City of Parramatta LGA in Western Sydney for its Business Energy Advice Program.
 * Western Sydney University specifies that the Greater Western Sydney Region includes the City of Parramatta LGA (and so includes Epping).
 * The Centre for Western Sydney, based on data from the Australian Bureau of Statistics, similarly includes the City of Parramatta LGA (and so includes Epping).
 * Community organizations often refer to themselves as North-west: Epping Eastwood Football Club refers to itself as "the home of football in Sydney’s north west" while both the Epping and Epping-Eastwood clubs are members of the North West Sydney Football Ltd. The Epping Club says "The Epping Club in North Western Sydney is the ideal location…"  The local newspaper for Epping is The Weekly Times which describes itself as the "news organisation dedicated to Sydney's north west."
 * As a sanity check, Epping lies at a bearing of 310 degrees from Sydney CBD – a little closer to West than it is to North.

We should also note that there are some alternative classifications:
 * the NSW Department of Planning's proposed classification (part of the draft Greater Sydney Region Plan) is neither Western nor Northern, but "Central City".
 * The Bureau of Statistics uses a completely different classification, namely: NSW > Ryde > Pennant Hills – Epping > Epping

Over to you, good editors - what arguments and sources for or against?--Gronk Oz (talk) 14:12, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your message, GronkOz, and the editor you are referring to is indeed me, and possibly the many others that’ve removed “western sydney” previously as well. This has been brought up various times previously on discussion boards for Australian Places and other region talk pages. So instead of having to rewrite a large response I’ll summarise this as much as possible.

While I understand that City of Parramatta is a council based in the Greater Western Sydney region, it simply doesn’t define its suburbs locations. Part of Beecroft is a suburb with countless references to support it being part of Northern Sydney, and is also part of the City of Parramatta council, however there’s no commonly accessible resource to call it Western Sydney. In fact, previously it was edited as “Western and Northern Suburbs”, which created edit wars and conflict.

Another example would be if the entire Hornsby Shire LGA was considered part of the North Shore (Sydney), it would mean suburbs such as Castle Hill would then be listed as the North Shore (even though it’s an informal term to use, as per the main article).

Regions of Sydney are simply informal terms used to describe an area, with media and easily accessible sources being the main culprit to creating these informal terms to use.

Another issue with calling Epping part of Western Sydney is that it only borders one suburb commonly known as Western Sydney, being Carlingford, which arguably is quite a hybrid of regions as it sits in a position surrounded by three commonly known regions being the Hills District, Greater Western Sydney and Northern Sydney.

You also mention Epping being part of the City of Parramatta since 2016. This doesn’t mean the region changes entirely at all.

Epping may sit more towards the West from the Sydney CBD than it does towards the north, but again that doesn’t change the term used to describe the area. Suburbs that are strictly named part of Northern Sydney such as Hunters Hill and Longueville sit more west of Sydney CBD, however that isn’t a reason to now name it part of Western Sydney.

You quoted that all suburbs of City of Parramatta is strictly known as Western Sydney, however the main article for City of Parramatta describes that it also covers a small section of Northern Sydney, being the eastern parts of Carlingford and Dundas Valley, Epping and Beecroft.

Regions of Sydney were updated around one year ago to create a compromise to stop edit wars. Suburbs and regions had consistent conflicting edits and information which created a very messy and unreliable read. So it was suggested by various editors that regions would be described as more of an “informal term” used to describe a place by common knowledge.

You’ve also brought up the “Greater Sydney Districts” plan by the NSW Government. The idea in this plan does not give any insight into regions of Sydney at this point in time, and it’ll doubtfully change the name of Sydney’s informally known regions at all. This is a master plan for allocating developmental planning such as infrastructure, transport, etc. It isn’t a healthy source to be using to name new regions of Sydney.

Just before I conclude this, I for one live on the Lower North Shore of Sydney, and I have never heard anybody describe Epping as the “Western Suburbs”, only if it’s used with humour; however in this case, we call anything west of the pacific highway western suburbs. I also deal with clients on a regular basis who live in and around Epping and the question has been brought up by myself if they are indeed in Western Sydney, to which they either respond with “North West” and some, “North Shore”.

To conclude, using a LGA or Council is not a consistent source or measure for the name of a suburbs region. Epping has had many changes to its main article for what region it belongs in, and common government sources have given enough reason for it to be named part of Northern Sydney, with a compromising description to clarify that it is often referred to as part of the “North-West” or “North Shore”, to give some insight to the viewer that it is indeed a suburb that sits in between more singular defined regions. If it helps to further compromise, we can add a link to the quote “North-West” to the main article for Western Sydney. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 15:00, 26 May 2021 (UTC)
 * thanks for your input and your personal views on what you think is common usage. From what I can make out, ignoring your comments about unrelated suburbs, I can't see anything in your comments that would be contrary to my proposal. However, as I have tried to explain to you many times, Wikipedia does not rely on individual editors' personal opinions.  It attempts to summarize the best available sources, and you have not provided any sources at all: just your unsupported idea of what you think is "common knowledge".  You might notice that I provided plenty of sources at all levels to support my proposal - including the Department of Health which until this week was the only source you would accept because it supported the claim that Epping was North and not West (they now classify it as Western Sydney).  I look forward to seeing what other editors have to say.--Gronk Oz (talk) 04:52, 27 May 2021 (UTC)


 * You still don’t understand the point. The point is why use a source that just categorises the City of Parramatta as in the Greater Western Sydney region? I cannot repeat myself this many times, GronkOz. A simple search on google shows enough results to depict Epping as “Northern” or “North-West”. Here are some sources you could have searched up yourself to get a very common sense idea, NOT my own personal opinion:

https://sydneysuburbreviews.com/epping/

https://eppingcivictrust.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/North-Epping-Background.pdf

https://www.health.nsw.gov.au/lhd/Pages/lhd-maps.aspx

Here are some news articles from the Australian Broadcasting Network (ABC); a government funded and owned reputable source:

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-23/homicide-sqaud-officers-investigate-after-body-found-epping/6718004

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-07/coronavirus-cases-in-nsw-rises-to-34/12036256

Like I said, regions of Sydney are sourced from common knowledge, such as from media, news sources and social culture, not from government corporate bodies such as those involved in development.

I will not be repeating myself again, so maybe try and READ what I had to share earlier, and read the sources and get a good understanding instead of responding with a message that evidently displays your disregard for me.

I also will not be belittled by you, GronkOz, nor will I be brushed off because you can’t handle the fact that Epping is quoted to be in the Northern Sydney area as it is common knowledge and related articles are consistent with this information - this seems to be a very fixated page for you to edit and manage, and looking at previous edits, you’ve managed to belittle other editors and attempt to gaslight them to feel irrelevant.

I look forward to seeing what other editors have to say. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 05:23, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Please just stick to the issue - don't try to make this a personal matter. I quite understand that you think anything based on LGAs is irrelevant.  As you will see in the references I provided above, that view is not shared by everybody else.  Many of them find that is indeed the way they make the classification.  Sorry if you don't like that, but it's what the sources say.
 * That Department of Health reference you quote specifically says that Epping is in Western Sydney: "Western Sydney Local Health District (WSLHD) is responsible for providing primary and secondary health care for people living in the Auburn, Blacktown, The Hills Shire, Holroyd and Parramatta Local Government Areas (LGAs)..."
 * The reference from Epping Civic Trust is not about Epping; it is about a separate suburb called North Epping, which is in a different LGA.
 * The other sources you gave are all consistent with the proposal I made, that it is called both Western and Northern. The ABC news that you laud also refers to Epping as being "north-west". If you want to provide a reliable source to back up your claims of "common knowledge" or "social culture", then I look forward to seeing them.  The simple fact that multiple people keep putting this information into the article, and you keep removing it, should be a clue to show that your view is not "common knowledge".
 * So the upshot is: when some sources say North, some say West, and some say North-West, then I propose the article should reflect that.--Gronk Oz (talk) 10:11, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

GronkOz, it seems you’re still playing your emotional manipulation games again.

Here’s something simple for common knowledge: LOOK AT GOOGLE AND SEARCH IT FOR YOURSELF.

END OF DISCUSSION. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 10:39, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

GronkOz I just checked for myself on Northern Sydney Health and yes, Epping is served by the Northern Sydney Health department. Not sure where your information has come from. Keep digging. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 10:54, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * - You're not sure where it came from? It was from the very link that you provided.  Just select "Western Sydney" from the list of regions there and you will find the quote I gave above.  No mystery.--Gronk Oz (talk) 13:35, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

That’s great - a small section of Epping in the Western Sydney health district. Majority in the Northern Sydney health district. And your point is....? Why don’t you go and argue with the media, news corporations and community members that “Epping is out in the western suburbs” and to tell them to stop perceiving it as in the North-West, North and on the odd occasion North Shore? You clearly haven’t read all related articles of the regions of Sydney and don’t understand the point of informally named regions of Sydney by general social knowledge... HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 13:44, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Please don't misrepresent the source. All of Epping is in the Western Sydney Local Health District (check the quote above).  Our role here is not to "argue with the media" or other sources, but to summarize what they say.  When some sources say North, some say West, and some say North-West, then I propose the article should reflect that.--Gronk Oz (talk) 23:32, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

GronkOz look up the Northern Sydney Health District - a small section of Epping south of Carlingford Rd to around Chesterfield Rd is part of the Western Sydney Health District, leaving the rest of Epping to the Northern Sydney Health District.

Regardless, it’s common usage of terms that are used to describe these informal regions. On North Shore (Sydney) talk page, it’s been mentioned before these are informally made regions, and references should be directly and specifically where a suburb is whether it be a supportive government funded news broadcasting service, multiple commercial sources such as businesses, or historic descriptions.

If this is such a big issue, then maybe compromise by doing what I suggested - link North West with the greater western Sydney article, or just list it as North-West Sydney. Otherwise, remove the regions entirely.

We cannot put it up as per what you want it to be, being “Epping is in the Western Suburbs”, because there’s nothing that specifically says “Epping is in Western Sydney” or “Epping is in Sydney’s West”. That would be conflicting information, and a simple google search would display that only Wikipedia would suggest that.

I can only find articles and pages specifically describing Epping as in the North, North-West and North Shore, nothing directly stating “Epping is in Sydney’s Western Suburbs”. Don’t confuse the reader. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 23:56, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

Your expanded support is still not enough as it still refers to the Council itself, not the suburbs. Still no references that directly describe that “Epping is in Greater Western Sydney”. HornsbyBbSyd (talk) 05:22, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * unfortunately no other editors have contributed to this discussion, so I have listed it at Third opinion in the hope of progressing the debate.--Gronk Oz (talk) 12:39, 3 June 2021 (UTC)
 * and ; as Pelagic has joined the discussion, I have declined this 3O request on the board due to there being more than two editors. Sennecaster  ( What now? ) 16:27, 7 June 2021 (UTC)

This sounds like an argument about where you draw the line between upper-class and upper-middle-class. Sure, Epping's not Mosman, but it's not Shalvey either. Anything north of the Parramatta River is north-something. Northern beaches, north Sydney, upper/lower north shore, northern suburbs, north-west. The whole Epping–Carlingford–Beecroft tract seems like a region that belongs together but I'm not aware of any common name for it. I would lend more credence to sociology, or how community groups self-describe, rather than to some government bodies that redraw their boundaries whenever it suits them to cut funding, amalgamate for "improved efficiency", or to send pork-barrels to marginal electorates.

Conversely, if regions like "north shore" are so rubbery and ill-defined, then does it serve any purpose to try to pigeon-hole every suburb into one or the other? What about the areas where these so-called regions leave gaps or overlap? Should we instead focus on specific statements like "lies north of the Parramatta River" and "is part of a proposed 'Central' planning district"?

⁓ Pelagic ( messages ) – (00:11 Sat 05, AEST) 14:11, 4 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments, I think we are indeed in a situation here which is, as you say, in the overlap.  We should bear in mind that Wikipedia defines WP:NPOV as including all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources and explicitly notes that The relative prominence of each viewpoint among Wikipedia editors or the general public is not relevant and should not be considered.--Gronk Oz (talk) 03:09, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Not replying to anyone specific but just adding input into this discussion. As a native born and bred Sydneysider I can confirm Epping is a Northern Suburb within Northern Sydney that is geographically north-west of The CBD however is currently part of City of Parramatta Council which is generalised as a Western Sydney council and therefore its area gets considered Western Sydney by default. I can assure you no Sydneysider considers Epping a 'Western Suburb' (I don't need a lecture of this being unreliable original research).
 * The border separating Western Sydney and Northern Sydney is Berowra Creek, Cumberland Highway, Pennant Hills Road, Marsden Road and Wharf Road with everything east being Northern Sydney while everything west is Western Sydney. The main issue with this debate lies with the council LGAs as they are very often used as a government tool to define areas of Sydney however are not always within neat accurate borders and can stretch across more than one region. Councils like Bayside Council and The Hornsby Shire are good examples of council LGAs that do this. The fact that council LGAs aren't as well defined as they could be makes them troublesome when used to define areas which unfortunately is how they are often used by governments.
 * Here's why this gets confusing; since Sydney's Northern Suburbs (Hunters Hill up to Beecroft) is a fairly grey area being north-west of The CBD coming under different councils with different demographics and socioeconomics it makes it an easy target for technical classification. City of Parramatta Council can also be considered grey as while it is for the most part within Western Sydney it has most of its area north of The Parramatta River which are the actual North-Western Suburbs which are still considered part of Western Sydney while The Northern Suburbs (Hunters Hill up to Beecroft) which are part of Northern Sydney happen to be right next to The North-Western Suburbs with both areas being geographically north-west of The CBD. Once again the barriers are Berowra Creek, Cumberland Highway, Pennant Hills Road, Marsden Road and Wharf Road.
 * There are further debates like this with other councils that cross more than one region but still get put into one category by default such as The Hornsby Shire which is on both sides of Berowra Creek having half its area in The Hills District (Western Sydney) and half in The Outer North (Northern Sydney) but still gets the classification of being a 'Northern Sydney Council'. Bayside Council which crosses the areas of Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs, The Inner South and The Southern Suburbs of St George just gets considered a 'Southern Council' dismissing the fact that its eastern side has suburbs and neighbourhoods in common with Randwick City Council which is Sydney's South-Eastern Suburbs but by default is grouped with The Eastern Suburbs Councils of Waverley and Woollahra for all three to collectively be considered 'The Eastern Suburbs' dismissing any part of Bayside Council as being part of The Eastern Suburbs and not acknowledging the fact that Randwick City Council is actually The South-Eastern Suburbs.
 * I feel pedantry and government sourcing can often cloud the reality of a topic especially when it comes to areas and regions which are almost always subjective and indefinite. Government uses councils to define areas, Sydneysiders use their real life experience, knowledge and geography. Saying Epping is a 'Western Suburb' because it got amalgamated with the Western Sydney council City of Parramatta is not an accurate representation of Sydney's geography, culture, history, demographics and socioeconomics. 2405:6E00:48F:E430:41EA:F42D:F6CB:432E (talk) 17:59, 3 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello, IP editor, and thanks for taking the time to respond. As you know, Wikipedia articles need to be based on reliable sources.  In particular, the policy on Neutral Point of View explicitly notes that The relative prominence of each viewpoint among Wikipedia editors or the general public is not relevant and should not be considered.  So claims like "no Sydneysider considers Epping a 'Western Suburb'" are simply irrelevant to Wikipedia, as well as being factually wrong (for instance, I am a Sydneysider). When you say that "the border separating Western Sydney and Northern Sydney is Berowra Creek, Cumberland Highway, Pennant Hills Road, Marsden Road and Wharf Road", where did that information come from?  Did it come from some reliable source, or is it just your own opinion?--Gronk Oz (talk) 16:13, 4 August 2023 (UTC)