Talk:Equilibrium (2002 film)

"Gun Kata", which is a plot element in this movie, and has no other existence, is mentioned here in context. There is no need for a separate article, particularly not one which consists almost entirely of unfounded speculation and a lengthy quote from the movie. If you feel the subject needs more coverage, please do it here. -- The Anome 00:32, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)
 * Done. F  i  P  11:46, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for your edits, The Anome! They're great. Once again I am sad to realise that "me don't talk english so good" ^^; F  i  P  16:21, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)

We by Zamyatin - is this the film version?
I really think it is. It shows many similarities. The utopian world in which emotion has been repressed for the good of mankind. A war in which most of the population was wiped out. A central character who learns how to oppose the government by learning to feel as humans in the past did. A revolutionary female character who teaches/encourages the protagonist to feel as he does. A final riot which sees an uncertain outcome - the ending of both is virtually identical, other than that D503 ends up back in Government hands, unlike Bale's character. Addy (but cant be arsed signing in) 12/4/06 19.50 BST

Thoughts about the movie
Philosophical premise of the movie.

Society came close to extinction and allowed or was forced to take a newly invented drug that cast away all emotions.

The great thing about this movie is that it shows us an aspect of life that we never really think about. How general free will, and our emotions are really precious things. The drug given to the people provides a cold existance, and allows them to go day by day doing what needs doing, without ever worrying. They are walking zombies that do not create anything new, they just keep the processes of old going. They are biological machines, going from task to task without ever experiencing something.

Some people were born outside of this society, or defected from it when they missed a few doses of the drug. These people realize how precious our emotions are, and that it is better to face death, rather than live all their life in the safety of an empty world.

I love the way the movie presents the clerics anger and suprise at the things that touch him. There was a pen for dogs at the outside of one rebel encampment, and he could not toss a puppy back in to have it shot. Freedom from the drug touched him so deeply that he had trouble hiding it.

The lessons of this movie are that blind obedience is safe but in the end draining. Emptiness can never replace happiness, and in the end there are things worth dying for.

The movie also showed that even though the people were told it was for their own good, the leader of the society did not exist, and the man that controlled him did himself commit a sense crime. He wanted to be in control, and the messages to the people and the drug gave himself that power, even if he was alone as a person for all his life.

Overall, life is not about working or being productive - that is what we do to keep going - it is about living and experiencing new things, because otherwise we are already dead, we just don't know it.

- Feel free to edit this and make my writing more clear :).


 * Please use the talk page only to discuss the article, not the movie in itself; this is not an Internet forum. Naphra

Poor box office performance
Anybody have an idea why it was never released widely in the cinemas and only earned about $5 million USD?--Nectarflowed 10:39, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * A very good question. Critical reaction was decidedly mixed, but some reviews were overwhemingly positive. Given the amount of universally-panned films that still receive wide theatrical releases, it seems curious that this would not be given a chance to find an audience. On the IMDb Trivia page, it claims the film had already turned a profit overseas and Miramax didn't want to risk losing money on a wide release. However this doesn't hold water because the worldwide gross was (as you noted) only $5 million and IMDb estimates its budget at around $20 million. In order to turn a profit it would have to gross at least double that. --Feitclub 04:42, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

RE: Poor box office performance
Actually the information at IMDb is based on a comment by Wimmer himself. This profit for Dimension had nothing what ever to do with "Box Office" totals but the sales of distribution rights overseas before the film was ever released in either locale. This is a common practice in the film industry and has also occurred with other films such as David Mamet's State and Main.

The following is what writer/director Kurt Wimmer stated - "Dimension didn't understand the film, though it repeatedly tested to volcanic response. Also, the worst thing it had against it was that it was in profit due to foreign pre-sales prior to release. The studio saw no reason to risk further monies on P&A and risk turning a money-maker into a money-loser." - Interview at Sci/Fi Dimensions

JenGe Talk - Webmaster, Equilibrium Movie Fansite, 19:27, 23 Apr 2005

Edit: Father as a reference to Big Brother
I edited the following comment in the article since Kurt Wimmer disputes this on the DVD commentary..."the figure of Father is a direct reference to Nineteen Eighty-Four's Big Brother."

Please see DVD Commentary Transcript, Chapter 9

JenGe Talk - Webmaster, Equilibrium Movie Fansite, 22:44, 23 Apr 2005

The quadruple T cross
Just wondering if we have any references as to the T's assembled in a cross are actually a reference to what the article describes. The Tau (which is a cross shaped like a T) has been used by billions of people throughout history as a symbol of divinity, the triple Tau is seen in many symbols of Freemasonry and is still in use in contemporary culture. The quad Tau is likewise currently in use by various organisations, I just find it hard that something so steeped in mysticism would just be some crappy reference to a T model Ford. Jachin 17:44, 2 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I always figured it was T for Tetragrammaton, and four of them because Tetra is four. I guess it's hard to divorce Huxley from any dystopia, but I don't think referencing the Model T from A Brave New World was his intent. -Falcorian 00:03, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

I doubt that it is a reference to the Model T. I noticed that throught the voice-overs and texts the Cleric is referd to as the "Gramaton Cleric" but in the movie itself several times as the "Tetragrammaton Cleric" -- the Tetragrammaton can roughly be translated as Jehovah or Jahve, the biblical name of God. My guess is either the director did not know the meaning of the word or did not care but in the end was persuaded to limit the usage. I would even go so far as to say that this was one reason why the movie was not widely released or promoted in order to avoid any lawsuits from Christian organisations for using God's name in such a bad light, or something like that -- and we all know that you should not use His name in vain. Hey, just a theory. Maybe somebody can find the truth and correct the entry. --The Singularity 03:42, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Regarding Tetragrammaton vs. Grammaton - it seemed to me that the Tetragrammaton was the overall organization, while Grammaton was used to refer to the clerics themselves (i.e., Grammaton Cleric 1st class vs. Cleric of the Tetragrammaton). And I highly doubt that alleged religious overtones were the reason why it received a limited release - as was pointed out elsewhere on the page, Kurt Wimmer said it was because Dimension didn't understand the film, had already made a profit from foreign pre-sales, and didn't see any reason for a wide US release. --Arabani 17:53, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Removed the part about the Model T then, unless someone wants to defend it. --Falcorian 00:50, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

My view
In my opinion, "the Matrix" came first, and had a good plot. "Reloaded" was unnecessary plot-wise, but the action i it was good, and both Peston and Neo had to get to grips with the realisation of the situation they were in. Whilst I enjoyed "Equilibrium", it made a point that had been made a dozen times before. I was going through various articles when I came across one on "Logan's Run", which was a movie that I remembered that I had enjoyed. The plot, whilst not the same, is uncannily similar. Peston and Logan are both the cream of law enforcement who, when their own law turns against them, decide to rebel and succeed in their mission. This movie is actually more like "Logan's Run" than anything else, and the article does not reflect this fact. Dessydes
 * I disagree with you. I've never seen Logan's Run, but reading the article, I can't see what's so similar between the two. While Preston is indeed the best of the law enforcement forces, the law hardly "turns against him", although he is certainly manipulated by his superiors. I don't think there's a real need to mention Logan's Run in this article. --Arabani (Talk ∞ Contribs) 20:54, 22 January 2006 (UTC)


 * By law, I did not mean law-enforcement, yet this is still relevant anyway. Do you recall the bit when Brandt humiliates Preston in the public square? Also, watch Logan's Run, and you'll see what I'm talking about. The Plot is different, yet the story structure is very similar. Both are repressive socities, the main diffrence is that one is oppressing emotions, and the other believes it necessary to euthanise people who are still young, but no longer at their prime. Dessydes


 * By the time Preston had been humiliated, he was already well on his way to rebelling against the current regime. My point was that it wasn't the regime per se that turned against Preston - it was his missing of an interval. Also, it should be pointed out that repressive regimes that remove an arbitrary component of society are rather typical of dystopian literature. --Arabani (Talk ∞ Contribs) 10:49, 23 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, I think we're pretty much on the same page here. My basic point was that this story has been done so many times before. Good movie though. I think we might actually be in agreement Dessydes


 * No argument here. :) --Arabani (Talk ∞ Contribs) 12:17, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Excellent Synopsis
whoever wrote it, please take on other movie articles. Streamless 15:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Equilibrium's inspirations
I noticed that Equilibrium indeed appeared inspired by the novels mentioned here - but another also seemed possible. The video game series "Syndicate" by Bullfrog had scenes containing the blimp with video screens alongside, also shown frequently in Equilibrium, as well as other cutscenes from the video games.

It's likely a coincidence - how many different appearences can bland, futuristic, militaristic government controlled societies attain in the imaginations of film makers (and game makers)?

Still, did the inspiration from the Syndicate series come from the same sources as Equilibrium? Or are they similarities in future societies design what caused the makers of these two titles to so closely resemble each other?
 * Interesting. The uniforms of the player's agents in Syndicate (or its sequel, Syndicate Wars, I can't remember which) closely resemble the uniform of a Tetragrammaton Cleric in Equilibrium.  I think you're onto something here.  --Estarriol talk 18:24, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Kurt Wimmer stated in the DVD commentary that the cleric's uniform is based on that of a 19th century American deacon's frock. DVD Commentary Transcript --Arabani (Talk ∞ Contribs) 23:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)
 * As for the videoblimp, Blade Runner had one, advertising off-world colonies, if I recall correctly. Naphra 04:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed tagline
I removed the tagline from the article because it had little if anything to do with the actual content of the movie. Seano1 22:58, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Title issue
The sentence "The film was released as Cubic in Europe" is wrong. Equilibrium was released as Equilibrium in Europe, too.

Pascal


 * Equilibrium is titled Cubic in Scandinavian countries.
 * http://www.equilibriumfans.com/cubicdvd.htm


 * I have edited the article to reflect this. (It's unsigned since I can't seem to stay logged into Wikipedia at times.)


 * (JenGe 16:25, 21 November 2006 (UTC))
 * That might well be, but I still own a Norwegian copy of Equilibrium which certainly isn't titled "Cubic". I've also never noticed it anywhere in Norway under the name "Cubic". Hence, I'm rephrasing the bit about it going by that name in Scandinavia. --83.109.239.219 03:20, 25 December 2006 (UTC)


 * Well here are several Norwegian DVD sites that list the film as "Cubic."


 * http://www.dvdstrax.com/no/index.php3?SCREEN=item&item=13409
 * "Undertekst: Norwegian, Danish, Swedish, Finnish"


 * http://no.kelkoo.com/ctl/do/search?siteSearchQuery=cubic&catId=100346023&fromform=true


 * http://www.dvd.no/asp/base.asp?Page=Box&RType=kk&artikelnr=5504337


 * http://www.megastorenorge.no/template/next,Product.vm?itemid=864512&source=1900


 * http://paatv.no/film.php?p=film&id=2076


 * http://www.nordiskfilm.fi/video/elokuvaesittely.php?id=1149:::
 * "Tekstitys: Tanska, Ruotsi, Suomi, Norja"


 * Norja is Norway/Norwegian right? I will be reverting your edit since the film was originally released in Scandinavia as Cubic no matter what you might find being sold there now. --- JenGe 07:13, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Flag
In the section "Trivia" it is mentioned that Libria's flag resembles the Nazi "Hakenkreuz" flag. I would consider it worth mentioning that it actually looks almost identical to the "Kruckenkreuz" [1], which was the symbol of Austrofascism. A little sidenote: Austrofacism is often described as an example of clerical fascism, trying to strengthen the position of the Roman Catholic church in Austrian politics - while a long term goal of National Socialism was to replace Christian tradition by Nazi mysticism. This is an interesting fact because some aspects of Libria's political system do resemble clerical fascism. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.223.113.26 (talk • contribs) 05:31, 2006 July 2 (UTC)

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriotic_Front_(Austria)


 * I'd say the symbolic similarity is stronger than with the Swastika, and is worthy of mention in the article, intentional or unintentional as it may be. --Agamemnon2 07:59, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * It is already mentioned. The Cross Potent ([[Image:Cross-Potent-Heraldry.png|12px]]), mentioned as being similar to the Tetragramaton symbol, is the same symbol as seen on that Patriotic Front flag. While the flags have similar symbols, the flags themselves are not very similar.—Asatruer 17:22, 11 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure the symbol is supposed to be the Tetragramaton. The resemblance to a swastika my have been a miss understanding between the designers off the flag and the director. The resemblance to a Cross Potent is almost certainly a quincedence. Seano1 20:38, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

WA 2000s, shotguns?
The trivia bit was probably correct. Wikipedia itself says: "This rifle was used in the film Equilibrium but without a scope and with a modified handle such that it appears to be a shotgun" (Walther WA 2000 in popular culture). This is unsourced information though so I haven't readded it to the article. Pasi 19:23, 16 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Scrap that. Found a source. Pasi 19:27, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Original research?

 * The scenario in Equilibrium is remarkably different - historical knowledge is widespread, due to frequent documentaries on the telescreens which explain historical events. It appears that, unlike the other states, the Tetragrammaton Council teaches an un-falsified (but incomplete) version of history, explaining the corrupt societies of the early twenty-first century and the Third World War, in order to explain why they have created the Librian civilization. This fact adds to the assumption that Librian society is relatively new, as the government is still obliged to justify its creation to its citizens. A study of the televised lessons shows that the positive aspects of the past are never mentioned -- only the horrific acts attributable to the senses (Caligula's impregnation and execution of his sister, the various wars that have ravaged the planet in man's ongoing quest to subjugate cultures other than their own, etc.) are ever described by Father in detail, leading to additional conditioning by which the Librians obediently continue to take their intervals and accept their society as the necessary sacrifice.

Are there sources for all this, or is this original research or description of one's own opinions? "It appears that" and "A study of the televised lessons" strongly imply that this is. I'm going to take it down after some time if no sources are presented. I particularly object (if original research) to "Librian society is relatively new, as the government is still obliged to justify its creation to its citizens", "only the horrific acts... are ever described by Father in detail, leading to additional conditioning". Naphra 19:56, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Removed the above and some other similar stuff. I however actually question the value of the entire section comparing Equilibrium to other dystopian stories; this is article on Equilibrium, not on how different dystopian stories compare to each other. If such information should be included, in my opinion it should be put in an article of its own and use verifiable sources and not include original research. I am therefore considering completely reworking or removing the whole section. Comments welcome. Naphra 17:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)


 * The film's fight sequences have been described as very similar to The Matrix series. This is inaccurate. Whereas The Matrix series makes extensive use of wire work, with the characters performing superhuman feats, Equilibrium uses no wires. Equilibrium also does not use the bullet time effect employed in The Matrix. Equilibrium's Gun Kata does not appear in The Matrix.

Perhaps this just means that these characteristics are not significant when comparing the fight sequences? And where have such claims of similarity been made? Naphra 18:00, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

How do we know the picture shown is Libria is 2072?
Where did you find the information that the photograph shown in your synopsis of the film is meant to illustrate Libria in 2072? I don't remember anything in the film that actually indicated a specific year. In fact it was very clear not to mention time, date, or location. Much was left to the imagination. Please direct me to the place in the movie where this information is imparted.

Mary T.


 * I think the article is need of a major rewrite anyway, there's a lot of irrelevant extrapolation in it currently. Naphra 20:20, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

 * This should be incorporated into the article or deleted. See WP:TRIV  John Reaves 00:56, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
 * The pistols wielded by Preston are heavily modified Beretta 92 series models, made specifically for the film.
 * The shotguns seen in the dog scene are not in fact shotguns, but modified Walther WA 2000 sniper rifles.
 * The cars driven by the Tetragrammaton are retrofitted Cadillac Sevilles.
 * The original name of the drug was called Librium, but that was the trade name for an existing anti-anxiety drug named chlordiazepoxide. "Oblivion" (with a soft "o" as in "on") was also tried before finally settling on "Prozium", a portmanteau of Prozac and Valium.  Regardless, the actors on set had used the word "Librium", and all of their uses of the word had to be replaced using ADR and clever editing.
 * "Tetragrammaton" actually refers to four sacred syllables that represent the distinctive personal name of the God of Israel. (Complete information at Tetragrammaton).
 * The symbol of the Tetragrammaton police-state in the movie is four capital T's, joined at the base, much like the Cross variant the Cross Potent.
 * The sidearms carried by Cleric Preston produce a muzzle flash in this 'T' shape when fired.   (Kurt Wimmer also used logos for the muzzle flares in his 2006 film Ultraviolet.)
 * The Flag of the Tetragrammaton is a white field with a black rimmed yellow disk bearing the symbol of the Tetragrammaton. On the video commentary, director Kurt Wimmer states that this unintentionally looks like a swastika. However, symbol is much closer in look to a Cross Potent. This same symbol is used in the flags of the Vaterländische Front and the Khmer Rouge.
 * In Brave New World, the religion of the world involves Christian crosses with the tops cut off of them, turning them into "T"s. This is vaguely referenced in the movie with many windows and doors in the shape of "T"s, and may or may not have been an influence on the symbol of the Tetragrammaton.
 * In the scene where Preston's home is being searched and he enters his bathroom to check his hidden stash of Prozium, it is possible to see a camera operator in the mirror just after the door closes.
 * According to moviebodycounts.com, the character of John Preston (played by Christian Bale) has the most onscreen kills in a single movie ever. His kill-o-meter is set at 118, exactly half the movie total of 236.
 * Despite the assumption that both Brandt (Taye Diggs) and the 'Father' (Sean Pertwee) use Prozium, both exhibit bursts of anger. Brandt even shows pride in capturing Preston.  This is explained at the end of the film, in the "hypocritical office", by the fact that both he and DuPont are actually "sense offenders".
 * Mary O'Brien, a member of the underground, has the same last name as O'Brien, a character from Nineteen Eighty-Four who is supposed to lead a revolution against Big Brother.

Nazi claims
There were no references in this section, which reeked of original research and all manners of POV. Hence, it's gone. --83.109.239.219 03:28, 25 December 2006 (UTC)