Talk:Erinyes

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 29 March 2021 and 11 June 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Eurydice07.

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Untitled
Inspiration for the brides of Dracula, perhaps? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.231.23.183 (talk • contribs) 05:20, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

What does "Erinyes" mean in Greek?
What does "Erinyes" mean in Greek? Also, what is the singular form? "Erinye"? 83.95.193.113 17:45, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The Greek singular form is ̓Ερινύς (Erinys)- in modern Greek the singular form is Ερινύα-, and the word translates roughly to "Murky, Dark, Misty". The Latin names for them are a bit more explicit: Furiae ("Rage, Madness, Fury") and Dirae ("Ill-Omened, Forboding"). -Silence 17:56, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Newton's Third Law removal
I've removed the link to Newton's Third Law (the law of reciprocal actions). Although I appreciate the metaphor inherent in the link (the Erinyes enact vengeance, i.e., are the force of reciprocity), unless there is a good reason to include Newtonian physics, I submit that it has little to do with this article. If someone chooses to re-add the link, please accompany with explanatory text; otherwise it seems very out-of-left-field. Ryan McDaniel 16:38, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Alecto's link to Moral Turpitude?
Is it appropriate for Alecto's description under the "Three Sisters" heading to link to Moral Turpitude an american legal concept? As far as I know, the Erinyes have no connection to the legal concept, other than in a general symbolic sense, certainly not a specific legal one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.160.182.112 (talk) 17:12, 22 November 2020 (UTC)

Psychological Trauma?
I removed the links in "See also" to the articles on psychological trauma and post traumatic stress disorder as they are entirely unrelated. Anyone planning on re-linking them please include an explination as to why. I'd like to remind you that the erinyes are mythological and, in mythology, afflict wrong doers with punishment. Context and direct connection aside (which clearly favor the removale of these links) PTSD and psychological trauma most commonly afflict the victim of such acts, and as such are unrelated even remotely. (FossaFerox 06:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC))

Stop the Madness!
Does anyone else agree that the "Erinyes in popular culture" section in this article is getting bloated and silly? For Pete's sake, the article has more writing there than in the rest of the article. And so far as I can tell, the only qualification for mention is that a song / video game / TV ad uses the word "fury" at least once. If there is no outcry, I propose to delete it all in a few days. Mlouns 05:41, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * And while I'm at it, the "Erinyes in later culture" looks uninformative and ripe for deletion as well. The Sartre reference probably belongs in the Oresteia article, and the rest are mostly just one-line cites. Mlouns 05:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Last call -- If I don't hear a protest, the whole pop culture section is going very soon. Mlouns 06:17, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * You might want to put a reference to the Sandman series ninth volume 'The Kindly Ones'. There are several references to the Furies in other volumes as well - in the second Desire says "I'll bring the kindly ones down on your head" and one of the offshoot mini series' is about the furies.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.87.130 (talk) 06:53, 6 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I have added it to the article (without reading this discussion first), but I think they are the main subject of the book, they are even it its name (the kindly ones), altough they are merged with other mythological figures, but I think it is important enough to at least mention it in the article... --Have a nice day. Running 01:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

editing glitch
the box that has links to other things it says greek mythology on the top of it well it's over the text and you can't read the first few sentences of this page i don't know how to fix it but someone should —Preceding unsigned comment added by Charlieh7337 (talk • contribs) 00:40, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Merging Pages
Is it necessary to have seperate articles for the Erinyes as well as one for each one? suzumebachi٭secret~ ~ ~ 18:44, 22 April 2009 (UTC)

Meaning of Alecto
This page states that the name Alecto means "unceasing", yet her page states that it means "the implacable". Which is correct? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.203.14.51 (talk) 21:42, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Lost Information
After the spam edit on 04:04, 30 September 2009 a whole chunk was lost, but never got restored. it looks like some of the other references have changed, though, could someone check that out and restore it? 67.161.246.72 (talk) 02:59, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Bullfinch, bull... well, you get the idea
I have removed a piece of careless misquotation from the article. The "legend" recounted about the Furies here is actually from the 18th century German writer Friedrich Schiller's poem "The Cranes of Ibycus." If you still think it worthy to cite the poem then excellent, but Schiller should get the credit.

It has some of the most hauntingly melodic German I've ever read:

in schwarzer Mantel schlägt die Lenden,

Sie schwingen in entfleischten Händen

Der Fackel düsterrote Glut,

In ihren Wangen fließt kein Blut.

Und wo die Haare lieblich flattern,

Um Menschenstirnen freundlich wehn,

Da sieht man Schlangen hier und Nattern

Die giftgeschwollenen Bäuche blähn.

At any rate you can read more over on the German Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.180.25.183 (talk) 05:19, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

logic question
In reference to the play, it states that by giving the 'Furies' red robes it thus ends the red color scheme of the play. That strikes me as counterintuitive. Chznarles (talk) 11:12, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

Parentage
This article says that "According to a variant account, they emerged from an even more primordial level—from Nyx, "Night"." Who is the source of this account exactly? ICE77 (talk) 14:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
 * According to Aeschylus the Erinyes are the daughters of Night (Eumenides 321) see this gbook preview, theoi, translation of Eemenides line 321 -France3470 (talk) 18:23, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Cool, thanks. Let's add this source to the article then. ICE77 (talk) 22:24, 13 April 2011 (UTC))

Sartre, Les mouches
In "Les mouches" by Sartre (loose adaptation of Sophocles' "Elektra"), the Erinyes are personified by flies (hence the title, meaning "the flies" in French). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.230.30.143 (talk) 15:15, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment to: Have you read about the Seraphim? They can be found in the Book of Isaiah. Furies, Fates or Hesperides? Isaiah, Hesiod or Virgil? FUSTER1965 (talk) 18:02, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Ἐρινύες, A. K. A...
The page states that the Erinyes were also sometimes known as χθόνιαι θεαί. While I see where they get the adjective χθόνιος, it seems to me that this is a modern concept whereas the Greek terminology implies that we are dealing with an ancient name for the Erinyes. Furthermore, the general term for goddess in Greek would be ἡ θεός, not θεά/θεή, so as it stands now I would say that, given the unusual form of the name, it either needs a direct citation from an ancient author referring to them as such, or that the alternative name should be deleted. Does anybody know where the A.K.A. has come from/who can provide it with the correct reference? Niels van der Salm (talk) 20:04, 11 April 2012 (UTC)

Section for origin myth?
I'm not sure whether the origin myth, currently in the heading of the article should deserve its own section, it would require some significant reformatting. I might do it if I don't get a response in the next couple of days. GrassHopHer (talk) 19:32, 19 October 2013 (UTC)

When were they "first" called the Eumenides?
Aeschylus's Oresteia is by consensus dated up to 80 years before Euripides's Orestes. The third play of the trilogy is titled Eumenides. In this third play itself, most of the events take place that are described in the second paragraph of the Aeschylus section of the extant page. At the play's end, the Furies are re-dubbed the Kindly Ones, the Eumenides.

It seems that the Aeschylus section should be revised to reflect which of the plot details are sourced by this third play, and the claim in the Euripides section, that the first equation of the Furies with the Eumenides occurs in his play the Orestes, should be removed. --98.233.184.247 (talk) 04:20, 17 July 2014 (UTC)
 * There seems to be considerable scholarly debate concerning this issue which our article doesn't seem to adequately reflect. Although Aeschylus play has come down to us as the Eumenides this may not have been the original title used by Aeschylus, &mdash; the word "Eumenides" does not appear anywhere in the surviving text &mdash; and some scholars have attributed the first identification to Euripides' Orestes, see for example Sarah Iles Johnsto, p. 268 and Robin Mitchell-Boyask, "The Furies". Paul August &#9742; 13:10, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

Sartre, Nausea
John-Paul Sartre has a reference: ' Norns ', in his "Nausea"., p52, Penguin Classics, Penguin Books Ltd., Baldick, R. 2000. It's alluding to the Cyclops. Close to this search is Furiæ. He, Satre, does not go any further, with his classical references, to bridge the subject of Satyr(s) or Siren(s). Myself, I think that Antoine Roquentin is being followed. FUSTER1965 (talk) 16:51, 7 January 2017 (UTC)

Three hellish Furies, stained in blood...
In Dante Alighieri's "The Divine Comedy of Dante The Inferno" (translation by, Marvin. R. Vincent, 1904) Canto IX lines: 30-40., p.57., he writes about the Furies, as such: '....Three hellish Furies, stained with blood....little snakes for hair...'. Dante then goes on to describe them as the 'Erinnyes' and names three, with the same names as Virgil's furies from the Æneid. Written in Greek, the English adjective 'selfish' is: εγωιστικός, phonetically, the tonal value is very similar to both Erinnyes and Erinyes; the Greek word is referenced as, selfish and egotistic. Similarly, the English adjective 'hellish' (Grk: καταχθόνος) is referenced as, infernal, hellish and Stygian. All of the above, puts me in mind of Medusa and her sisters, in Hesiod's "Theogony". FUSTER1965 (talk) 05:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC)

add also
Modern English + Modern Greek: Erinya singular, also correct
 * Eumenides or Eumenids plural
 * Eumenida or Eumenid singular, the spirit-soothing version of the word
 * (the Pacific Ocean was a violent ocean for the old ships, we call these nouns or names placative) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:2149:8450:8A00:D52B:9765:E45B:4A51 (talk) 01:48, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 13 November 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: No consensus. (non-admin closure) Cwmhiraeth (talk) 13:50, 10 December 2019 (UTC)

– Per WP:COMMONNAME. As of this writing, both "Furies" and "The Furies" redirect to Erinyes and, while numerous links flow to "Furies", only eight links flow to "The Furies", which should be the main title header of the disambiguation page since, among the dab page's 18 entries, 13 are titled "The Furies", not simply "Furies". — Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:23, 13 November 2019 (UTC) —Relisting. Steel1943  (talk) 23:39, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
 * Erinyes → Furies
 * Furies (disambiguation) → The Furies
 * Support first per WP:COMMONNAME. Oppose second; The Furies should be a WP:PRIMARYREDIRECT to Furies.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 20:48, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Support first oppose second per zxcvbnm Randy Kryn (talk) 21:22, 13 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose. This is an article about Greek goddesses, featured primarily in Greek mythology and Greek literature.  The article should not be moved to a Roman name when the Greek title is well-known, the literary sources in which they appear are Greek, practically no Roman literature is cited, and most of the Roman literature that exists is likely to consist primarily of translations of Greek myths.  This move would be like moving "Odysseus" to "Ulysses" or moving "Aphrodite" to "Venus", simply because the Roman names are, or once were, regularly substituted for the Greek in English-language materials.  If there were sufficient Roman literature here to support an article on the Furies in Roman myth and culture, it would be a separate article, as is done for all other Roman deities who were either derived from or became identified with Greek deities through syncretism.  At the present, the only Roman literature cited is Servius, listing different names applied to them.  In addition, the article has been at its present title since its creation in 2004; and because we have redirects, there is no danger of people not finding it because they're searching under the Roman name, or any of the alternatives appearing in literature.  P Aculeius (talk) 13:25, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Once again, the central issue here is English WP:COMMONNAME and comparisons with Odysseus / Ulysses or Aphrodite / Venus are not directly applicable because those names have entered standard English usage. A glance at Aphrodite (disambiguation), Venus (disambiguation), Odysseus (disambiguation) or the Ulysses disambiguation page will display numerous other uses for those terms, while Erinyes stands alone, with a hatnote indicating that the English common name "Furies" redirects here. For other uses, see Furies (disambiguation). —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 14:38, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * A quick Google search reveals that "Erinyes" is in standard English usage, and has occurred in a significant number of English-language sources for at least a century and a half. Whether a disambiguation page for other uses is necessary is completely irrelevant to this discussion.  A more apt question would be, "do we have a significant number of Greek deities listed under their Roman names, even though practically all of their mythology and literature is from Greek sources, with little or no contribution from Roman mythology or literature?"  P Aculeius (talk) 16:29, 14 November 2019 (UTC)


 * Strongly oppose This article is about the Greek goddesses of vengeance. Their name in standard English usage is the Erinyes&mdash;not the Furies, which is rather the name, in English, of the Erinyes Roman counterparts. (And of course Erinyes has entered standard English usage, just do a Google search.) Yes the Roman goddesses, the Furies, might be better known but that doesn't meant that the name of the Greek goddesses is the Furies (because it isn't). Just like the name of the Greek goddess of the hunt, in English, isn't Diana, but Artemis, and the name of the Greek god of war isn't Mars, but Ares, although in both case, the name of the Roman counterparts are arguably better known. Paul August &#9742; 19:31, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * A few quick supporting sources, the corresponding articles in all the three general reference works I have at my desk: The Oxford Clasical Dictionary, The Dictionary of Classical Mythology (Pierre Grimal), Crowell's Handbook of Classical Mythology (Edward Tripp), are all titled "Erinyes". Paul August &#9742; 19:51, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * However, it is still about the English common name. As already pointed out by P Aculeius, above,
 * Thus, your examples of Artemis / Diana (mythology) and Ares / Mars (mythology) are as inapplicable as the previously-mentioned Aphrodite / Venus (mythology), since all of those have their own separate entries. Granted, there is no separate entry for Ulysses (mythology), which is arguably a better known name than Odysseus, but the word "odyssey" is such a well-known English term that its familiarity transfers to Odysseus, with no analogous case existing for Erinyes.
 * Ultimately, even when both Greek and Roman names are part of standard English usage, Greek names are indeed generally used but, when it comes to a Greek name, such as Erinyes, that is almost completely unfamiliar to most English speakers, in comparison to a name, such as Furies or the Furies, that is no longer considered a Roman name, but a word in standard English usage, per the Furies (disambiguation) page, then the choice would seem to be tilted in favor of what does appear to be WP:COMMONNAME. —Roman Spinner (talk • contribs) 20:24, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes it is about the English common name, and the English common name for the *Greek* goddesses is Erinyes, per the three sources I've given (I could give more). The Erinyes and the Furies, (although counterparts) are simply not the same thing. What you seem to be suggesting is that we ought to call both the Roman goddesses, and the Greek goddesses by the same name. Why would we do this when there are perfectly good English names for each, i.e Erinyes for the Greek goddesses and Furies for the Roman goddesses. Paul August &#9742; 21:43, 14 November 2019 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Pluto and Nox (Nyx), in Virgil's Aeneid.
In the virgil version, Pluto and Nox (Nyx) are the parents of the furies.

When she had spoken these words, fearsome, she sought the earth: and summoned Allecto, the grief-bringer, from the house of the Fatal Furies, from the infernal shadows: in whose mind are sad wars, angers and deceits, and guilty crimes. A monster, hated by her own father Pluto, hateful to her Tartarean sisters: she assumes so many forms, her features are so savage, she sports so many black vipers. Juno roused her with these words, saying: ‘Grant me a favour of my own, virgin daughter of Night(Nox), this service, so that my honour and glory are not weakened, and give way, and the people of Aeneas cannot woo Latinus with intermarriage, or fill the bounds of Italy. (Aeneid 7.323 - Verg. A. 7.334 ).

Men speak of twin plagues, named the Dread Ones, whom Night(Nox) bore untimely, in one birth with Tartarean Megaera, wreathing them equally in snaky coils, and adding wings swift as the wind." ( Aeneid 12. 845 - 12. 848 ff )

please read pages 138, 167 and 294 https://people.virginia.edu/~jdk3t/AeneidTrKline2002.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by Victorygreymon123 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 30 January 2021 (UTC)