Talk:Erma ESP 85A

Minor caliber
Is it a fact the 85A was in .32S&W Long? I hesitated to use it, absent knowing for sure. Also, I used 7.65 because it's a European weapon, & would've been known as such, rather than as a .32, there (I think...). TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  06:12, 29 December 2009 (UTC)
 * But ... .32 S&W Long is not 7.65 mm ... there are about half a dozen 7.65 mm pistol calibres, none of which are the same thing as .32 S&W Long. I'm guessing you probably are thinking of .32 ACP, which is the same thing as 7.65 mm Browning (7.65 x 17 mm) (and, incidentally, is neither .32" nor 7.65 mm in calibre ...)? Surprisingly, so far as I can tell by Googling, the alternative calibre for the ESP 85A is indeed .32 S&W Long. (Surprising because .32 S&W Long is a fully rimmed revolver cartridge, not really optimal for a semiautomatic. But then. 22 LR is also fully rimmed, so I guess it isn't that surprising.) But there is no common metric name for that calibre, so I have removed it. -- 202.63.39.58 (talk) 09:41, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
 * And you've missed the point: a .32, in Europe, is commonly called a 7.65mm, based on bore diameter; it's not about the equivalent round.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  08:15, 3 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, no, that is not correct. The 85A is chambered in .22 LR, and .32 S&W Long. Not .32 ACP. In Europe and most other places that use the metric system (except UK and a few other Commonwealth countries), .32 ACP is indeed commonly called 7.65 mm (more precisely 7.65 x 17 mm or 7.65 mm Browning, but if you just say "7.65", then .32 ACP is understood even though there are other 7.65s). However the totally dissimilar .32 S&W Long is not commonly known by a metric designation anywhere. (It does have a metric designation, of 7.65 x 24 mm, but that designation is so rare that even experts will usually not know what you mean by it without consulting a reference. It is also strictly wrong since the nominal diameter is actually .315" / 8.00 mm.) In Europe -- including in non-English speaking countries -- .32 S&W Long is most commonly called: .32 S&W Long. Sometimes it's ".32 SWL", ".32 S&W &lt;long in local language&gt;", ".32 Colt Positive" and half a dozen other permutations, but ".32 S&W Long" is the most common, and 7.65 is not used for this 8.0 mm cartridge. (In general it is the exception rather than the rule to translate cartridge names; for example everyone says ".45 ACP", never 11.5 mm. Even in metric countries, most handloaders would need a pocket calculator to work out what you mean by 11.5 x 23 mm.) Anyway, don't believe me, here's a few references:
 * 2.4 MB PDF discussing the calibre's history, in French,
 * French sporting shooters' blog
 * (French page listing common French synonyms for calibres; .32 S&W Long is about halfway down.)
 * .32 S&W Long (Norwegian Wikipedia page)
 * Italian page on the cartridge
 * -- 202.63.39.58 (talk) 14:43, 5 July 2010 (UTC)