Talk:Erotic thriller

GENERAL
Thanks to whoever cleaned up the grammar! I added support for the claim that erotic thrillers began appearing as early as the 1960s, which Linda Ruth Williams comments on in reference to Psycho and later films of the 1970s. However, I've removed this statement: The experimental Trans-Europ-Express (1966) is a clear predecessor of the erotic thriller genre, featuring a drug-smuggling protagonist who engages in sadomasochistic sex with a prostitute and also a full-frontal nudity scene by a bondage performer and added the film (with bluray.com reference) to the Wiki List of Erotic Thriller Film Titles. Perhaps that is a better location for this statement, rather than a section that is trying to define the erotic thriller as a genre? This is a bit of an obscure film to introduce into a generalized topic area, and also, unlike the other films mentioned in this section, it is not referenced in any of the primary sources devoted to the erotic thriller. Hope you don't mind.Deanbrockton (talk) 21:00, 6 August 2016 (UTC)deanbrockton

ORIGINAL VS NEW
The erotic thriller is a film and literary subgenre which consists of a thriller, that uses suspense, tension, and excitement as its main elements,[1]
 * This statement is supported by a non-academic Web link to a source that has no authority. Also, it is totally insufficient as a definition of the erotic thriller film. A roller coaster uses "suspense, tension, and excitement" as its main elements. Is a roller coaster an erotic thriller?

with an element of eroticism.[2]
 * This reference is nothing more than a blog entry. "An element of eroticism" is totally insufficient as a descriptor for a genre that produced 500+ films.

The genre became popular, especially in the United States, from the mid-1980s through the early 1990s, before declining in marketability.[3][4]
 * This "Den of Geek" article was written by someone who is paid to write articles for "Den of Geek". It is not an academic source.  Also, early 1990s is not correct for the decline in marketability.

In some films, the development of a sexual relationship (or even a one-night stand) is often used to create tension in the storyline, especially if the people involved should not be having sexual relations, such as in Out of Sight (1998), where a U.S. Marshal has sex with the criminal she is pursuing.
 * This is an interesting opinion, but contributes nothing substantive to the study of the erotic thriller film as a film genre.

Revision
The presence of Erotic thriller film as a genre needs a proper place on Wikipedia. To this end I've modified this page to include references to the academic books written on the subject, and a much better definition of the genre that is based on that scholarship and published interviews with practitioners. Also, like the film noir entry, the list of erotic thriller films should be separated from the page that defines the genre. To this end I've created a page on Wikipedia that is, as far as I can tell, the most complete and extensive list of erotic thriller titles to be found anywhere -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_erotic_thriller_film_titles -- However, "Erotic thriller film" should be the proper title of this Wiki page, not "Erotic thriller", as the literary genre is separate and needs its own page. New to Wikipedia as an editor so if someone can advise on how to correct this problem and better situate this entry for development, I'm interested in some guidance. Deanbrockton (talk) 21:28, 24 May 2016 (UTC)deanbrockton

What
Crash and Looking for Mr. Goodbar do not belong here. --75.119.233.2 (talk) 05:08, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Can we get a clear definition of "Erotic Thriller" before we start including and excluding films? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Davmpls (talk • contribs) 18:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)


 * Linda Ruth Williams sets out a pretty clear definition of an erotic thriller in her book The Erotic Thriller in Contemporary Cinema. In a nutshell, the erotic thriller sits at the intersection between three genres/styles of film: (1) The woman's romance film, which hinges upon implicit sexual desire, (2) the hardcore pornography film, which hinges upon explicit sexual spectacle, and (3) some thriller plot type such as crime thriller, police procedural, or noir thriller.  The thriller plot generally serves as the "binding agent" to hold the female-oriented romance story and the male-oriented porn spectacle together. Both Linda Ruth Williams and Nina K. Martin (in her book Sexy Thrills: Undressing the Erotic Thriller) speculate the erotic thriller evolved to satisfy the desires of male/female couples renting these films from video stores that did not carry hardcore pornography. Deanbrockton (talk) 22:40, 15 May 2016 (UTC)

Provincialism
Does Wikipedia recognise films made outside the USA or, because Americans cannot understand them, do they not count? What about erotic thrillers since 1980 from France and Spain, for example? --Hors-la-loi 11:28, 31 August 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hors-la-loi (talk • contribs)

Article cleanup
I made major edits to this article. Prior to my edits, it contained extensive info on the DTV market, its actors, directors, and production companies. Though the DTV market is a major component of the success of the erotic thriller genre, it does not constitute the entire subject. I included paragraphs that detail the big Hollywood pictures like Basic Instinct and Fatal Attraction. Even though those are the most mainstream examples of the erotic thriller, they undeniably had a major impact on the genre and on popular culture. I didn't entirely remove information on the DTV industry, and have left relevant info as a subtopic. I deleted the section on "Notable figures" because that section in particular read like a bullet list of all DTV actors, which is not necessary for an encyclopedic article. If anyone has questions about my edits, I am open to discussion. I just thought this article needed more organization to its content. I plan to expand the "Decline in popularity" section.Spectrallights (talk) 04:39, 29 November 2021 (UTC)

Fifty Shades
Why is Fifty Shades even connected to this genre? These films don't seem be to be thrillers of any kind, don't focus on criminality or duplicity, and they don't seem to have any connection to film noir or neo-noir. Dimadick (talk) 04:30, 5 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Just because it’s referenced at the bottom does not mean it’s necessarily a part of /representative of the genre. In a section about “Further developments” it deserves mention because it shows how Hollywood tried to bring risqué content back to the big screen. Many articles I used for research noted the films were expected to revive the genre because of their much hyped sexual content (obviously they didn’t) so I thought it was important to include in a section about how Hollywood has tried to update the formula to varying degrees of success. Spectrallights (talk) 07:48, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

Claims of bias in decline section
Regarding this edit, can others elaborate on the bias? What parts in particular do you find biased? That section exists to simply explain why the erotic thriller film is not as popular as it used to be in the heyday of box office hits such as Fatal Attraction, Basic Instinct, Disclosure (1994 film), etc. (Deep Water is a recent thriller but it did not make the same impact as the previous films, and similar films are still few and far between) It also cites reliable sources—including scholarly—that give reasonable reasons for the genre’s decline in mainstream cinema. Do you think erotic thriller films are still a thriving genre ? Note there's a distinction between nostalgia for films of the genre and number/impact of these films being made today. Spectrallights (talk) 05:56, 26 June 2022 (UTC)


 * @Americanfreedom Please respond. Spectrallights (talk) 06:07, 8 July 2022 (UTC)


 * @User:Spectrallights 3 things:

1. You could've brought this up on my talk page. I would've gotten to it sooner.

2. Look, the whole section looks like it was written by a feminist. It, AS IT SEEMS TO ME, skews negative towards the genre and I attempted to correct that by introducing a few more "positive" sources to neutral out the section a bit.

3. Wow, this is the first "@username please, respond" on the interwebz, I'm kinda flattered. Americanfreedom (talk) 04:25, 10 July 2022 (UTC)


 * How is the section negative towards erotic thrillers? If bias is claimed, it's only fair to provide specific examples beyond simply disliking the content. The section explains the cultural factors that led to the genre becoming less popular—again, diminished output, cultural impact. It is not a value judgment on the genre itself, but it looks like you are confusing the two. The section is not calling for an end to the making of these films, it explains why they stopped being made at a fewer degree.
 * The source you added is a No Film School article that argues why Hollywood should make more erotic thriller films again. If what you’re trying to say is that the public still wants Hollywood to make these films, then there is a way to word this without claiming bias. For instance, the section can end with, "Because production of mainstream theatrical films of the genre has declined, elements of the genre have moved to television, particularly streaming and pay television where creators are not restricted by network regulations." Spectrallights (talk) 23:04, 11 July 2022 (UTC)