Talk:Erzurum Province

Comment
"Armenians dominated the area"!!!! Come on! There is no census figure that shows Armenians as majority in any part of the Ottoman Empire prior to 1915, not even before 1890. And you know what, the heads of the census bureau were all Armenians during that period. Distorting the truth to call the massacres genocide is not enough surely that you resort to outright lying to make it more dramatic, somehow! The truth is Armenians were a large minority in Eastern Anatolia, including in cities like Sivas and Erzurum, and in western cities like Istanbul and Izmir, but at nowhere within today's Turkey they were the majority before 1915. I don't expect you to be objective and write an article about a city as it should be, but at least I expect you to not lie.

Reply: You are raving and contradicting yourself. You say "There is no census figures" on the one hand, then insist that Armenians were actually a miniority. If there are no census figures, then how can you be so certain? Hmmm? Oh, of course there ARE census figures but they were all pumped up ahead of time by Armenians anticipating the genocide. Oh sure.....

The facts are against you. Anatolia was the Armenian homeland for 3000 years and the pupulation was substantial. This is well documented. Turkey had to work rather hard to wipe it out. The signs of their effort, their ethnic cleansing, are still there.


 * Every historical source I have consulted-- and this includes Turkish sources-- points to a substantial Armenian historical presence. As you correctly point out, Turkish efforts to erdicate all traces of Armenian history in the region have also been substantial, and wouldn't make any sense if there wasn't something to hide. We are talking about people who were indigenous to this area after all, so this is not an astonishing revelation. The Armenian refugee population as well (circa 1915, well documented) was massive-- gee, where do you think they all came from?

Are you joking. Even the msot pro Armenian, Pro western sources put the Turkish population as the biggest ethnic group if not eh majority. Even the Armenian Church puts the Turks as the biggest ethnic group and everybody knows how full of lies they can be. Stop with the irredentism

I have a question, where is the kavaf district of Erzerum located?

someone needs to set up a disambiguation thing and an article for the city of erzerum. is there an article for that? Mightier than the sword 01:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Province and city
It looks dubious that the articles refers to "Erzurum" as it was the name of the province. The "province of Erzurum" should be more accurate.--Attilios 13:49, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

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A columnist as a source on Wikipedia?
Columnnists are not considered reliable sources of information and are not used as a source on Wikipedia. Robert Fisk of the Independent is no exception. 212.253.101.137 (talk) 01:14, 19 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Do you mean this Robert Fisk? He won an award for his research about the Armenian Genocide. And he received many other awards like the Reporter of the Year award as well. And he is the author of the article in the independent. You need to bring a better argument than that he is a columnist. Contrary to your argument, he is used as a source in numerous articles on Wikipedia.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 04:52, 19 May 2020 (UTC)


 * Thank you for doing the research. Exactly my point: he is biased. In any event, columnists are not reliable sources. Thanks. 212.253.101.137 (talk) 11:57, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed, columnists are not to be taken as reliable sources according to Wikipedia rules. 176.33.83.45 (talk) 09:48, 4 June 2020 (UTC)


 * Hi, I have checked the Reliable sources page and there is no mention of columns or columnists. It is mentioned that if a source is questionable, it might be better not to add it, if there is a dispute. But Robert Fisk is first not a columnist (one of your main arguments for the removal) at the Independent and second has won multiple well esteemed awards as a journalist and researcher. I would be pleased if you could choose your arguments a bit better founded.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 14:08, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Hello, you might have missed the section "Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (op-eds) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact." 176.33.83.45 (talk) 17:17, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * If you like we can take it to the next level. Next time you revert I report you. You bring up the argument, Robert Fisk is a columnist, and after I find out he is not listed as a columnist at the Independent, from where source is, you change the argument, and you also wrote there was no (Armenian) genocide, yet there exists an article Armenian Genocide and it is widely accepted by the academic world that there was an Armenian Genocide.Paradise Chronicle (talk) 20:49, 4 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Please see the above section again and you decide. You may report anybody, including myself, of course. A reminder:


 * "Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (op-eds) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact." 176.33.83.45 (talk) 17:48, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

It seems like we’re wasting our time with partial users who are not ashamed of their double standards either. Dominator1071 (talk) 04:12, 21 August 2020 (UTC)

Amazing bias by fanatical editors
Oh, so this is the Talk page user:Kansas Bear suggested to me to discuss matters regarding the alleged genocide. After reading the above discussions and not seeing a just resolution on the simplest of differences I’ll say: no thanks. You can keep fooling yourselves. 786wave (talk) 04:41, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Armenian citizens of the Ottoman Empire
For the record, one can use the term “Ottoman” for all the citizens of the Empire since Turkish, Kurdish, Armenian, Arab, Jewish, Greek, Assyrian, etc. nationals were also Ottoman citizens. The alleged genocide was not an official order. It was conducted by brigands mostly. Those in the military who massacred some people were also members of the Committee of Union and Propgress, whom Armenians were also a member of. What an irony! The murderers paid for their crimes by hanging. Show me an Armenian military officer who was hanged for his crimes against Turkish nationals of the Empire. Not one! 786wave (talk) 04:54, 22 March 2021 (UTC)