Talk:Escambray rebellion

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Escambray Revolt
The War Against the Bandits (Escambray Revolt) was a prolonged rising against Castro, mostly in the middle provinces of Cuba, starting in 1959 and continuing until about 1967. It lasted far longer and involved far more rebels and Castro militia than the original Castro guerrillas and Batista forces in their 1956-1959 war. It was finally suppressed by massive use of militia, numerous executions, arrests and internal deportations to “closed” towns in the westernmost province of Pinar del Rio.

Castro forces tactics consisted of sweeps of several very long lines of militia, a circumstance that caused heavy government losses, but ultimately won the war. Castro employed up to 250,000 troops at one time (see Puebla). Often the rebels broke through but the attrition of this unequal combat for the much small rebel forces (at most 4,000 in total, Puebla) decided the war.

The rebels were mainly country folk, sometimes former Batista forces, or followers of the William Morgan who was former Comandante in the War Against Batista. Morgan himself was executed in 1961 but the war went. In the beginning there was some CIA support; however, this was terminated long before the war ended.

Castro sources include Puebla, Teté (Brigadier General Cuban Armed Forces) 2003 Marianas in Combat: and the Mariana Grajales Women's Platoon in Cuba's Revolutionary War 1956-58, New York Pathfinder (Paperback) ISBN: 0873489578

Anti-Castro sources include the books of Enrique Ros

Francisco Ciutat de Miguel/Bay of Pigs Invasion
The following passage is removed from Bay of Pigs Invasion :-

"Ciutat de Miguel (Masonic name: Algazel[citation needed]; Russian name: Pavel Pavlovich Stepanov; Cuban alias: Ángel Martínez Riosola, commonly referred to as Angelito) is said to have arrived the same day as the La Coubre explosion; he was wounded in the foot during the War Against the Bandits. Date of wound is not given in references cited.[15]"

In Bay of Pigs Invasion, it is replaced with "Francisco Ciutat de Miguel (Cuban alias: Ángel Martínez Riosola, commonly referred to as Angelito)".

In the biography article Francisco Ciutat de Miguel, all the aliases and the reference are already included.

I am copying this section to the talk pages of Bay of Pigs Invasion, and War Against The Bandits. In addition, on the talk page of Francisco Ciutat de Miguel, I am copying below, an English machine translation of his extracted entry in Memoria Republicana retrieved from http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Personajes/Militares/Militares1.htm on 2009-01-16. It contains nothing dated later than 1939.PeterWD (talk) 00:54, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

William Henry Morgan-?
I am unaware that Morgan, in any real sense, led the anti-Castro Escambray guerrillas. He helped them by supplying them with arms, but I believe it is incorrect to say he was ever any kind of leader. He never even went up there as he would have been too recognizable and he (correctly) suspected he was being watched at every turn.

The wording should be changed to reflect that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Phi O'Byrne (talk • contribs) 00:50, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

article title constitutes an extreme violation of WP's NPOV policy
I cannot think of a more blatant violation of neutrality principles than declaring one of the two sides in this conflict "bandits" by accepting the opposing side's war propaganda! See WP:POVTITLE for relevant Wikipedia standards. I doubt a "significant majority of English-language reliable sources" use the term War against the Bandits to describe the Escambray Rebellion — the latter being a neutral title I would strongly suggest. There is no reliable source anywhere that would suggest this armed conflict to have been anything other than a civil war on political grounds, as opposed to a crime-fighting operation against bandits. --Hvd69 (talk) 15:01, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

Yes. This was my first thought when the first paragraph literally says " The rebellion is known abroad as the Escambray Rebellion." Well, if that's the case, then call the page that! But it seems nobody is paying attention to this talk page. 220.157.224.230 (talk) 06:22, 27 August 2014 (UTC)

The original title term was adapted by the Castro regime from communist usage during Lenin's genocide in the Ukraine [see for instance, Tyson, Joseph Howard 2015 Fifty-Seven Years of Russian Madness. iUniverse, Bloomington Indiana, cite from the google electronic edition. ISBN-13 9781491746295.] If memory serves I wrote most of the original article, under the name pseudonym  El Jigue. However, partisans of the Castros kept changing it so much, that I by then banned from Wikipedia by these same partisans, simply placed the original copy elsewhere: War Against the Bandits (last accessed 3-2-2015) http://www.conservapedia.com/War_Against_the_Bandits. My view, as both a fighter against Batista, and later imprisoned by Castro, is that the title is honorable and brings to mind the original context of the horror of 1930s Ukraine. Laurence S. Daley [Garcia-Iniguez] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.65.190.21 (talk) 19:18, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 26 October 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: page moved. Andrewa (talk) 12:08, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

War against the Bandits → Escambray Rebellion – Current title is a propaganda term that completely fails WP:NPOV, in addition it lacks necessary precision as it has been also used in relation to other places like Angola and China. Staberinde (talk) 19:08, 26 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Support Boundarylayer (talk) 02:23, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination. &mdash;Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 06:41, 27 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Support In ictu oculi (talk) 16:20, 4 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Closing comment: I note this reverses an undiscussed move 06:04, 19 February 2010‎ Murderdan537 (talk | contribs | block)‎ . . (37 bytes)(+37)‎ . . (moved Escambray Rebellion to War Against The Bandits). Andrewa (talk) 12:08, 5 November 2016 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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