Talk:Essjay controversy/GA1


 * See also: Talk:Essjay controversy at 09:01, 2 October 2007

GA
I have reviewed this article forGA status, and overall, I think it is very well written and well referenced, and mostly meets the GA criteria. My comments are based on this version of the article.

Per criterion 1, it is well written, the prose is clear and understandable, and the lead section is a good summary. I am a bit concerned that the article contains a bit too many quotations, and more actual prose could be used. But, unlike the FA review, I don't think excess quotations should hold up a GA (unless, perhaps, if the 'cquote' template was way overused, or something).

The article mainly passes criterion #2 (references) as well, though I do have a few concerns about some of them. Specifically, citation #5, which cites WikiEN-L, a mailing list (are email listservs a valid reliable source?). Reference #12 cites an archived copy of Essjay's wikipedia user page. I don't have a problem with reference #20 (the wikipedia signpost), a valid 'publication', albeit by wikipedia itself. But reference #27 refers to Talk:Imprimatur, and reference #29 cites Credentials. While we normally don't cite wikipedia itself, is it ok to cite ourselves when talking about ourselves?

I don't see any major problems with criterion #3 (broad/completeness). It appears to cover the significant parts of the topic, from introducing Essjay, to what he did and was accused of, and the controversy that followed.

Criterion #4 (NPOV) is very important. While I don't see any major neutrality problems that are glaring right out at me, it's very difficult for one person to judge this, especially for an article on wikipedia about wikipedia. That's one of the main reasons that I am seeking the opinions of others by listing this at WP:GA/R instead of the passing it like a normal article at WP:GAC.

I don't see any major stability (criterion #5) problems today. There were some reversions and edit wars back in July & August on this article, which is of a minor concern, but it appears to have stabilized by now. The stability was brought up at WP:FAC, and some suggested that we should wait several more months on for FA on this article there. Though I think that GA can be a little bit more lax here, as long as there are no major WP:3RR reversions and major edit wars, I don't think that's a problem.

Finally, regarding the images (criterion #6), all check out fine. I wasn't expecting this to be a problem for an article about wikipedia itself anyways.

So, there's my review. I am listing this at WP:GA/R instead of promoting, as I think a second opinion (or more) on this is necessary for a controversial article such as this. Thanks! Dr. Cash 23:43, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Mailing lists and blogs aren't verifiable, and if that citation is needed to pass, then it has to fail. GreenJoe 20:41, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Of course, mailing lists and blogs can be reliable for some purposes. For instance, there's no question that the mailing list citation on Jimbo's request for Essjay's resignation was completely reliable. After all, Jimbo wrote the mailing list post himself. (The cite now been replaced with another source, not that it needed to be replaced.) Hard-and-fast rules about reliability are, well, unreliable. I really don't care if this article gets to GA status or not. But this objection is unreasonable. Casey Abell 11:59, 18 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not really a big deal, either way. I replaced one citation with a more universally accepted one without changing the text. When I (or someone else) gets the chance, we should replace or remove the last few question mark citations. I continue to assume good faith among the reviewers, so once these minor issues are quickly corrected there shouldn't be anything preventing an upgrade to "good article." J Readings 01:44, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


 * Frankly, I think the only thing preventing this article from becoming an FA is its controversial nature. If it becomes a GA, that's nice, but I wonder how long it will survive as a GA. Anyway, the automatic rejection of blogs or mailing lists as reliable sources has always been a pet peeve of mine. Such sources can be reliable for certain purposes, as they were for the Jimbo cite. Casey Abell 13:38, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Second opinion

 * GA review (see here for criteria)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * a (fair representation): b (all significant views):
 * 1) It is stable.
 * 2) It contains images, where possible, to illustrate the topic.
 * a (tagged and captioned): b lack of images (does not in itself exclude GA):  c (non-free images have fair use rationales):
 * 1) Overall:
 * a Pass/Fail: GreenJoe 19:43, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm a self-admitted hater of Essjay. That said I read the article with as much neutrality as I could, and with a keen interest of the subject. I felt it was neutral, and broad in its coverage. It is very well done. I didn't go through every reference though. GreenJoe 19:50, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * You obviously didn't have much contact with Essjay. He was one of the best users on Wikipedia, and never abused his authority. I have my own theories as to why he lied about his 'credentials' (which Wikipedia doesn't really care about). He was an excellent user, but what he did was not acceptable, especially to the the New Yorker. He made a serious mistake, but he does not deserve to be hated. Prodego  talk  20:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * That's rather irrelevant, don't you think? I thought the article should pass. GreenJoe 20:41, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I was trying to admit my own bias as per WP:COI. GreenJoe 20:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I was trying to admit my own bias as per WP:COI. GreenJoe 20:42, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

GA update: pass
I have listed this article for two weeks at WP:GA/R, and received the following comment, in addition tot he aforementioned second opinion.


 * Comment The "Academics" section doesn't start by saying where specifically these academicians and students are, since the only sources are for England and America, that should probably be spelled out more explicitly. Homestarmy 00:03, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Another editor has given their own opinion already saying it should probably pass, is there anything to do here? Might as well take off the hold if there's nothing... Homestarmy 03:46, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that the comment above specifically warrants exclusion from WP:GA, and therefore, based on the second opinion as well as my own opinion, I am promoting this article to GA status. Cheers! Dr. Cash 06:20, 2 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you Dr. Cash. I was getting worried that it was never going to happen no matter how much work was done in good faith on the article. J Readings 09:01, 2 October 2007 (UTC)