Talk:Estádio Nilton Santos (Rio de Janeiro)

Pan-American Football Matches
As a major location for the 2016 Summer Olympics, I would expect this article will receive a strong rewrite in the coming years. I will try to do some research to expand on it when I have the chance, but I think that the section regarding the Pan American Football matches should be moved or removed. However, for now I'll leave that decision to a future editor. ThomasAndrewNimmo (talk) 15:28, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
 * If you wish, you can remove the Pan American Football matches section and expand the article. --Carioca (talk) 22:15, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

Requesting move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was not done. Skomorokh  08:01, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

Estádio Olímpico João Havelange → João Havelange Stadium — According to the English names adopted by the Rio de Janeiro Organizing Committee of the Olympic Games (ROCOG), since these are the names that will be known internationally in the coming years. Felipe Menegaz 19:39, 8 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Estádio do Maracanã → Maracanã Stadium
 * Ginásio do Maracanãzinho → Maracanãzinho Arena
 * HSBC Arena (Rio de Janeiro) → Rio Olympic Arena
 * Estádio Fonte Nova → Fonte Nova Stadium
 * Estádio Mané Garrincha → Mané Garrincha Stadium
 * Mineirão → Mineirão Stadium
 * Estádio do Morumbi → Morumbi Stadium


 * I support all moves (primarily on the basis of WP:UE) with the exception of Estádio Olímpico João Havelange and HSBC Arena (Rio de Janeiro). Proper translation would lead me to believe that Estádio Olímpico João Havelange should be João Havelange Olympic Stadium. I also question the need to rename HSBC Arena (Rio de Janeiro), just because it will be an Olympic site doesn't mean the name should change. Suggest Rio Olympic Arena redirect to HSBC Arena (Rio de Janeiro).--Labattblueboy (talk) 22:45, 8 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Rio Olympic Arena (Arena Olímpica in Portuguese) is a much more popular and recognized name, since this is the original name of the facility and was widely reported during the 2007 Pan American Games (primarily on the basis of WP:NCCN). Estádio Olímpico João Havelange can be moved to João Havelange Olympic Stadium as a proper name. Felipe Menegaz 02:58, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * What was the Rio Arena called during the PANAM Games? Do you have any info on how long HSBC naming rights are for? If the naming rights to HSBC are permanent, I am likely going to support HSBC Arena (Rio de Janeiro) because that will become the more common name and will be the official name for many years after the Olympic Games. I have some doubts about Rio Olympic Arena being more common. On wikipedia, it's only received 39 last month, compare that to the 1200 hits for HSBC Arena (Rio de Janeiro). That and the official name is HSBCArena, as per the arena's website. If the search traffic levels changed significantly from one to the other in the future I would support the move, but I remain unconvinced. --Labattblueboy (talk) 15:31, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
 * OK. Supported. Felipe Menegaz 22:29, 9 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose: "these are the names that will be known internationally in the coming years" - WP:CRYSTAL? Let's talk about moves based on current use, in English, now.  If English usage changes, we can reassess.  Mineirão for starters is almost always seen alone in my experience.  Knepflerle (talk) 00:36, 14 December 2009 (UTC)


 * Oppose, as per WP:CRYSTAL. The article name should reflect current usage, not a possible future usage. According to Wikipedia:Naming conventions: "We do not know what terms will be used in the future, but only what is and has been in use, and will therefore be familiar to our readers." --Carioca (talk) 17:25, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The only one where WP:CRYSTAL applied was for Rio Olympic Arena, which the requestor has removed from consideration. The others are all simply translation of names currently in use and seem rather proper under WP:UE. --Labattblueboy (talk) 17:15, 17 December 2009 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Name change
This article just changed its name from Estádio Olímpico João Havelange to Estádio Nilton Santos (Rio de Janeiro). There is no discussion of the name change in the article. In fact, the only mention of Havelange in the article now is about the trophy. Yet sources about its inception, construction and usages up through 2013 keep using Havelange's name. The explanation for the name change of what will be the primary stadium for the 2016 Summer Olympics should be in the first sentence of the lede, and probably an entire section should be devoted to explaining this name change barely a year before its usage, rather than to be completely ignored. Trackinfo (talk) 00:06, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * By the way, I did google the name change. All of the discussion is in Portuguese as one might expect.  The key details about the name change are translated in such a fashion that I cannot make English sense to coherently explain the circumstances. Trackinfo (talk) 00:16, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * As I understand it, the previous page name is still correct and the current name is only for Botafogo matches. Hack (talk) 00:55, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * If this is not the name it will be called in worldwide coverage of the Olympics, then the name redirect should be the other direction and the João Havelange explanation hshould remain in the article rather than being expunged. Trackinfo (talk) 00:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * It's not really just about the Olympics, the name of the stadium is unchanged for all but Botafogo games. Predicting what name the international media will use in 18 months is heading into WP:CRYSTALBALL territory. Hack (talk) 01:02, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

Requested move 11 February 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved. Number   5  7  13:09, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

Estádio Nilton Santos (Rio de Janeiro) → Estádio Olímpico João Havelange – Name hasn't changed per this source (pt). Previous move was undiscussed per section above. There appears to be no English common name for the stadium. Hack (talk) 01:08, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Note: This discussion has been included in WikiProject Football's list of association football-related page moves. GiantSnowman 13:30, 11 February 2015 (UTC)

As discussed above, apparently this is a naming rights situation involving one tenant of the greater stadium. I don't believe the stadium itself has changed names. Certainly the name situation requires clear discussion in the prose. Both names should be covered. The future prominence of this stadium, designated the primary Olympic stadium in 2016, puts its other usages superior to those of one football team. Thus wikipedia's naming should reflect the more common usage, as this stadium has been known since its construction and as it will be known to a worldwide audience. Trackinfo (talk) 17:53, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support Per the source, the official name of this building remains Estádio Olímpico João Havelange. This is a multi-purpose stadium with many users. The choice of one user (not the owner) to enter a naming rights deal with a company does not make that sponsor name the primary topic name. The fact that this name change makes it very hard for Wikipedia users to recognise the topic (actually one of the best-known stadiums outside the West) and it still needs a disambiguation handle as well shows the original move was not merited. SFB 19:00, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Support - we do not use sponsored stadium names, or consider other naming rights issues, with certain exceptions e.g. Emirates Stadium. GiantSnowman 19:16, 11 February 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.


 * The outcome of this move discussion has been repeatedly overridden by Figura2000. Do we need to reopen this discussion? I stand by my statements that this stadium is both officially and commonly known as Estádio Olímpico João Havelange. I believe these two factors should be the primary factor in the article title, rather than the fact that Nilson Santos is a more noble namesake than João Havelange, per Figura2000's assessment. SFB 17:30, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * No, the discussion doesn't need to be reopened. I've moved the article back to the title it was moved to, and locked it there. Figura2000 needs a good trouting and to open a new RM in a few weeks if they really think the other title is better. Number   5  7  17:37, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Yep, the consensus is clear, if he continues to edit disruptively then he will be blocked. GiantSnowman 19:38, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * A minor technical note, the official name is actually Estádio Olímpico Municipal João Havelange but the stadium is commonly known as Estádio Olímpico João Havelange. The name should not have been moved without a formal request given the page had been the subject of a previous requested move. Hack (talk) 04:36, 21 February 2015 (UTC)


 * Hi Figura2000 – can you please start a move discussion to move to the requested title? Repeatedly doing something without discussion when it has been previously opposed is not a productive activity for anyone. SFB 00:29, 29 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Editor has been blocked, page moves reversed and article move protected. Consider posting a request for move protection at WP:RFPP if there's similar issues elsewhere. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 05:56, 29 June 2015 (UTC)

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