Talk:Esteban (musician)

More criticism
The entire "segovia years" section has nothing to back it up. I personally think that it's BS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.33.115.21 (talk • contribs) 05:43, 7 December 2006

is this an add? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.118.177.152 (talk • contribs) 09:56, 30 January 2006

Estaban shares no musical similarity with Segovia and this is important to point out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.127.209 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 1 January 2007 Pepe Romeros page (a real maestro) and other classical guitarist need more positive entries... everyone head over to the real masters pages and improve them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.192.127.209 (talk • contribs) 14:48, 1 January 2007 Seriously, What is up with this page? All the external links even point to the guy's comercial sites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 35.11.158.80 (talk • contribs) 06:08, 1 February 2006

That's all this guy is, a commercial. Many reviews I've read on music sites say he sucks on guitar, has no real skill. And of course, nobody recommends his line of guitars, they suck. Basically, if this guy was charging peers money for guitar lessons, theres nothing he wouldnt do for money. The criticism section should be longer, from what I've seen online. I am amazed the author found so many good reviews, Esteban must have payed to have them written. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.95.59.46 (talk • contribs) 04:45, 6 February 2006

You've READ the reviews but havent listened to the music? Someone's bitter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.83.193.207 (talk • contribs) 04:22, 12 October 2008


 * Esteban may very well be a hack, a shill, or little more than a shameless opportunist - but (for better or worse) he has morphed into a C-list pop-culture icon. - Chadbryant 00:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

How can you "especially" not go to Costa Rica? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.86.218 (talk • contribs) 00:18, 1 March 2006

Segovia didnt give him his alias, Esteban is simply steven in Spanish. Segovia just called him that because Segovia was Spanish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.197.74.43 (talk • contribs) 15:02, 11 June 2006

Criticism section
I don't see this as necessarily being accurate in terms of the external links being used here. People who are unhappy with a product are far more likely to complain about it long before complimenting it, therefore the information presented there would tend to be skewed or biased, if at all 100% accurate. --Gvsualan 14:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm troubled by this section:
 * The new Esteban American Legacy Guitar featured in TV infomercials demonstrates a good deal of improvement over earlier generations, and customer response has been generally more favorable.

The reference here is from estebanreviews.com, a site which offers prizes for the "Best Estaban Guitar Story," and has the following disclaimer for it's reviews:
 * The following testimonials have been selected from those submitted for their promotional, educational and inspirational value.... The reviews (and replies) appearing here are not presented as an "open" weblog, but rather a sampling of reviews that have been selected for presentation on this site. Submitting a review does not necessarily mean it will appear here.

If we visit a site not controled by Esteban, at best the American Legacy can be said to have mixed reviews. (e.g. http://www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Data4/Esteban/D_100_American_Legacy-1.html)

I suggest we start by deleting the above statement, and the less than encyclopedic waranty info. Frankly, the whole article seems to have POV and looks like a cut and paste job from an Esteban ad or "fansite." --MrFizyx 23:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

[12.208.155.67] deleted the criticism section entirely. I've reverted and edited to keep only the info with an NPOV ref. --MrFizyx 23:31, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

History
I can barely understand the last sentence about him when he was 12, could someone rewrite that part. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.98.79.156 (talk • contribs) 21:19, 6 May 2006

Reply: I tried to fix it up and include what year he graduated in, 2006-1948 means he is 58 or 59, if he graduated when he was 19 i assumed that the year would be 1967 or 1968(1948+19). The sentence about esteban as a child playing baseball kinda bugs me too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.111.253.66 (talk • contribs) 11:10, 11 September 2006
 * If he was born in 1948, that means he will turn/has turned 58 in 2006, meaning when the year started he was still 57. I know, math is tough, but I think you can do it! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.72.98.93  (talk • contribs) 00:26, 15 November 2006

My reading came to a halt right here:

"...after failing to study under one of his idols, Andrés Segovia."

That part sounds odd. I'm suggesting that more sentences be used. Here's a rewrite:

Esteban attended South Hills Catholic High School in Pittsburg. Following his 1967 graduation, Esteban applied for study with his idol Andrés Segovia. When master classes with Segovia failed to materialize, Esteban enrolled in Carnegie Mellon University. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.229.95.113 (talk • contribs) 23:47, 5 January 2007

Bias's
All biographies are opinions of a person, whether dead or alive. You can not completely free any article from opinions, and therefore bias'. when we decide whether someone is a legend or hero, or a great artist, or hopeless and not deserving of any of our attention, that is an opinion, and bias.

The actual article has a positive bias, and some of the responses have negative ones. This simply means that the person who wrote the article perceives Esteban as a hero, or an artist deserving of a positive biography on Wikipedia, and the people writing responses perceive Esteban negatively. Both the article and response are both bias.

These are perceptions i have formed through my study of history. You may agree, or disagree. Your bias is entirely up to you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.129.158.239 (talk • contribs) 01:52, 7 October 2006

Segovia chronology?
In the "early years" section, it says he enrolled "at Carnegie Mellon in 1972, after failing to study under one of his idols, Andres Segovia."

Then, in the "Segovia years" section, it says they met in 1972 and "he was invited to his master classes in Spain." It goes on to imply that he immediately hauled ass to Spain to study. (After all, "his life was meaningless" without studying with Segovia, so why would he delay?)

So, where was he in 1972? Studying with El Maestro, or in college in western Pennsylvania? One of these statements has to be wrong. Did he graduate in '72?

And, he sold "solar systems" for Reynolds Aluminum? Like, planets and stuff? Meersman 02:55, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

This Article should be deleted...
There is sufficient evidence (see internet and legal issues ) to suggest that the character "Esteban" is a fictitional person created to sell guitars on television commercials. If this is true then it is also possible that this article was placed in Wikipedia in the hopes of recovering commercial integrity. Take note, for example, the paragraph here on how to improve the performance of an Esteban guitar by sanding the bridge. The guitars themselves, per multiple internet references ( listed in the article ), are of poor quality. I also echo the concerns of the other editors; there is no proof that Esteban studied under Segovia. There is no mention of what he did at Carnegie Mellon, or whether he graduated from there. There is no documentation of concerts or critical review of his performance. The most any reader of this article can feel comfortable with is the existance of an American who felt compelled to change his name to "Estaban", his wardrobe to that of Don Juan and Zoro, and his history to sound grand...in order to sell Chinese-made guitars for 150 dollars each on infomercials. Without some solid evidence, what more are we to think?

As for bias and opinion...the two are separate. Encyclopedias present facts ONLY. "Your Opinion" is not allowed in this format. In addition, this article violates the Wikipedia Biographical requirement which requires citation for living persons. Respectfully submitted, J.S.

71.34.217.189 13:00, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

71.34.217.189 04:43, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Twisket's Opinion!
This article should be completely rewritten or just deleted. God awful. Twisket 04:36, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation page
This should be a Disambiguation page...that way, more people can access it easier. I came to this page searching a different Esteban.Aznime 03:58, 26 February 2007 (UTC)Aznime


 * I agree. So go ahead and create it.  This article can be moved to either Stephen Paul (which now redirects here) or Esteban (guitarist) or similiar disambiguation.  Then you can create the disambiguation page listing various people with this name.  Gene Nygaard 14:33, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Esteban & Segovia
I have discovered a tiny image subtitled: "Esteban of Phoenix, AZ & Segovia" : Here, someone should contact the page authors to inquire about getting a larger picture. This perhaps adds credibility to the fact that Esteban did at least meet Segovia. I dunno, I could care less. Esteban's guitars suck. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.137.151.63 (talk • contribs) 19:47, 3 March 2007

Written by Esteban?
This article reads like an advertisement for this guy. Did anyone notice that all his albums came out AFTER his "injury"? Nobody had heard of him until the commercials, and all public focus is on the commercials. This article should be about Esteban the successful television salesman, not Esteban the musician. This man is obviously a fraud who has made it out to seem like he had a successful musical career. This page needs to be fixed to focus on his accomplishments, and needs to be reworded to not sound like an embellished advertisement. 24.108.153.22 04:10, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I dunno. How can he write this if he's blind? Unless........ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Playerdark (talk • contribs) 07:51, 29 March 2020 (UTC)

Enough Cheap Shots
If we agree to call Stephen Paul a successful businessman as opposed to a significant classical guitarist, can we stop with the cheap shots? The undertones of this article make Paul out to be a devious fraud but there is no reason to question the integrity or authenticity of this man simply because he plays popular music and sells low-end guitars. Of course his guitars are cheaply made; how else could he achieve his expressed purpose of making guitar-playing available to the masses? To point out shoddy construction borders on redundancy given the price tag. And his "exploitation" of Segovia is totally blown out of proportion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.230.62.18 (talk) 07:30, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Requested move 4 June 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved. I have requested deletion of the former page to make room for the second move. kennethaw88 • talk 03:06, 12 June 2015 (UTC)

– Who? WP:ASTONISH. --BDD (talk) 18:14, 4 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Esteban → Esteban (musician)
 * Esteban (name) → Esteban
 * Support – No case for giving this musician primary topic status. RGloucester  — ☎ 01:11, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support. Esteban is a common Spanish name. I had not heard of the guitarist Esteban before I read this article. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 12:17, 5 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support. For a person with a common single name to have primary topic status, two criteria need to be satisfied: they need to be known commonly by a single name (which Esteban the musician is), and the single name needs to be commonly associated with them. The second part is why I voted against the Miley to Miley Cyrus redirect proposal, and why I am supporting this move – the name Esteban is not commonly associated with the musician. ONR (talk) 20:54, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per nom Red Slash 07:27, 7 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support per nom, clearly. In ictu oculi (talk) 01:19, 8 June 2015 (UTC)
 * Support. Obviously. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:16, 10 June 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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