Talk:Estrid of the Obotrites

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Hang on for a second - some sources on Wikipedia names Edla, King Olof's mistress and Estrid's kindwoman, the mother of Anund Jakob. Any hard facts on this? --Sparviere (talk) 16:01, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I do not think that is correct. Anund and his brother Emund are described as half-brothers. Edla was the mother of Emund, Astrid (and possibly Holmfrid), and Estrid was the mother of Anund Jacob and Ingegerd. This is what I have always heard everywere. --85.226.47.151 (talk) 18:05, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

I have never heard that she was called Ingrid. Estrid and Astrid are two nordic versions of the same name (Astrid is the most proper in Swedish, but she is more often called Estrid), but as far as i know, she was never called Ingrid, and i am from Sweden (i have also expanded the article). Unless someone knows she was called Ingrid, that name shoud be remowed.

I like this one...It says, "I don't know anything about this, not even the correct names, I refuse to see how others are handling nomenclature, but I'm going to write something anyway! " The understandably annoyed JHK No century, either - just the usual slapdash incompetent gibberish. Obotrites seems to be the preferred form (so I've redirected Abodrites) - but Estrid, Astrid or Inegrid thereof? Do you have any guides? User:David Parker
 * Strangely enough, wives from slavic tribes on whom we have very little in the way of information (apart, it seems, from the LDS genealogy database) don't figure a lot into my knowledge base. I'll look around.  Do you know which king this is when he's at home? JHK

I can only find references on genealogy pages that all derive their informaiton from the LDS database. JHK


 * I wonder how accurate the LDS database is for marriages that long ago? Is this all oral tradition?  I mean, I know it's a sacrament and all, but we also know that royal and noble ancestors involve MUCH wishful thinking (witness the endless webpages of descendents of Charlemagne). MichaelTinkler

Honestly, I'd like to know where they got the stuff -- it could be perfectly legitimate -- from Annals or from donation records -- I sincerely doubt that they were from Marriage records, since we don't have those for anybody else of the period! We do have lots of so-and-so married such and such this year -- but only in histories and annals. The land transactions I'm most familiar with (eastern Francia) only say whether people are married (sometimes), but not when. I think that the documents from the later tenth century were probably better in that names and places had become more standardized, but gee, I'd like to know the source. Could be in Adam of Bremen, maybe... JHK
 * Olaf seems well-documented, but we don't seem to have a record of her death: just out of interest, Google definitely prefers Astrid.

-- Astrid is a German name. The line of the Swedish nobility and kings were called Estriden (plural) user:H.J.


 * so the line passed through the female side, even though this woman wasn't Swedish? That's very interesting! JHK

--- to User:JHK. If your little busibody group would not constantly cut out the important stuff you would be able to read by now, that there was a land called Gardarrike and Novgorod was Holmgarth and all the people had Northern Germanic names, and the persons name, whose mother was the Swedish princess and they lived in Scandinavia was Valdimar Holti the Nimble and not Vladimir II as David Parker made him out to be in a hurry. The first Russian chroniclers I believe wrote in the elevenst century and by then they Slavitised the names. I believe I do not have to demonstrate to you how little time it takes nowadays, to slavitize the whole eastern part of Germany.

I notice you didn't answer the question (or write in English...) JHK --- the whole eastern part of today's Germany, DID start as Slavic land. To noname, try again !! --- The Swedish kings are connected to the Norwegian kings and the Danish, who intermarried with the Juetland chiefs daughters. One Juetland Haeuptling, chief was Gorm the Old, chief of Juetland, who became king of Denmark.His son was Harald Bluetooth see []. Harald's son was, well you'll see. user:H.J. - Sorry -- I don't see any point that has to do with what you said earlier. JHK
 * In the article, you say that Estrid or Astrid was a member of the Obotrite people. That means she was most likely Slavic.
 * Above you said that the line of kings was called the Estriden, implying that they took their names from Estrid.
 * It does not seem likely that a line of Swedish royalty would be named for a non-swedish woman, even if she were a princess, when it is clear from the names referred to on the University of Hull website (which is really very bad) that names follow the father.
 * The logical conclusion is that this is another unfounded claim with an attempt to use vague and irrelevant sources for support.
 * I would like to comment on the University of Hull site - I agree that it is very bad. It is an amateur genealogical site maintained by a computer person, not even an amateur historian.  I have great respect for amateurs of history;  this person does not care about history except insofar as it relates to the proper names of royalty.  It is not a useful source. MichaelTinkler

-- Perhaps you would like to ask a person of Swedish royalty, why they called their royal line Estriden.I can only state here, what lexicons and genealogy sources state.
 * Meaning that you don't know, don't care to do any legwork to find out, and have no abilities to use sources critically -- but you'll be perfectly happy to let someone who can do the research. Then, you'll every so sweetly point out that, no matter what extensive research on the topic shows, YOUR sources (generally lists complied for a very narrow purpose) say something different, so we're all wrong anyway.  I think we've all played that particular game too many times, thanks. JHK

"Little busibody group"? Does this person imagine Wikipedia is their own private website? Do they imagine I haven't got better things to be doing with my time than correcting their trash?

I certainly didn't "make out Valdimar Holti the Nimble to be Vladimir II in a hurry": "Valdimar Holti the Nimble" ("Vladimir the Nimble the Nimble") is utter garbage. If people can't be bothered to find out what names mean, or how they are properly rendered, they shouldn't be attempting to write about them: the abysmal results certainly don't justify the time wasted by others in correcting them.

The "Holti" "article" didn't even say where he ruled, droning on for the most part about obscure German counts (essential, of course!), missionaries a century earlier and a Hanseatic League that didn't exist until a century later - and what the hell are "Valdimar" and "Usevolod" anyway?

As for everything in Russia having Germanic names, it may have to German chroniclers: so what? And Scandinavians may have called it Hollmgardr; Germans were as likely to call it Nogard.

Estrid it is, then, but which Estrid? This person can't even be bothered to identify a subject except by one forename shared by thousands of others. It's just lazy incompetence and displays a contempt for other users' information needs that makes their "contributions" utterly valueless.

Well may you hide behind your chosen anonymity, 66.47.62.78. User:David Parker