Talk:Estrous cycle

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Comments
The google test suggests 'estrus cycle' is preferable to 'estrous cycle', while ,strictly speaking, the corresponding analogue to 'menstrual cycle' is 'estrous cycle'. But so it is.Ekem 18:10, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

No it doesn't. Estrous/Oestrous cycle beats estrus/oestrus by 600 000 to 120 000.User:Laven 11:49, 26 Apr 2006 (GST)
 * The "Google test" is a rough guide when you have no other linguistic determination, but in this case we do. The ending "-ous" is used for adjectives, whereas "-us" is used for nouns. So "estrous" describes the type of cycle relating to the event called "estrus." Compare with "mucous," which describes a membrane that relates to the substance "mucus." Illexsquid (talk) 04:47, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

In find the "zoophile" paragraph to be both irrelevant and inaccurate. Since when is "observer of animal behaviour" an accurate definition of "zoophile"? It certainly does not correspond to the definition on the linked "zoophilia" page. And in what jurisdiction is their "theory itself" illegal?

Does this article's subject concerns humans?
having read all the article i am unable to find relative information for human females "women". I wanted to know how this cycle is related to periods in women and the common belief that ovulation is strong in this cycle? but this article currently seems to be created to inform vets only. 119.73.112.6 (talk) 15:33, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * This article as of today is quite explicit in that it does not discuss the menstrual cycle, which humans and other apes undergo, but rather the estrous cycle, which is the reproductive cycle experienced by most placental mammals. Well-meaning people seem to keep trying to add information about humans to this article; the article on the menstrual cycle is the appropriate place for that. Illexsquid (talk) 04:42, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Differences from the menstrual cycle
The very end of this section states that studies show that women have the most sexual activity just prior to ovulation. Anecdotally from my own experience corroborated from some women I know differs from this statement as does this quote: "One little problem with this theory. Surveys show sex occurs most frequently around the time of menstruation, when women are LEAST fertile. So either the theory is BS, or male cluelessness is more deep-seated than we thought.    Which is quoted from here http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_306.html

which is used as a refrence here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Menstrual_cycle On one hand I guess my point is that both study findings can't be right but what I was really hoping for was an explanation/justification for why the quote I've placed here (and agree with) would be correct. I'm stumped as to what biological sense this could make except perhaps to actually forestall pregnancy in ancient times until the sexually mature young women were actually a little older and more likely to survive childbirth.--Xiaou 09:36, 22 December 2005 (UTC)xiaou

Here's something I found odd, the article claims that animals that undergo estrus, rather than menstruation, do not expel their unused gonna-be-placenta whatever.. So, what is that that comes out? They sure -seem- to menstruate, which can make a mess if you don't spay or diaper your indoor dog in heat

Estrus Cycle
The correct spelling when describing the cycle is "estrous" or "oestrous" (the latter commonly is used in the UK). The word estrous is the adjective form of estrus; as it is used to describe the cycle, estrous is the proper spelling. Estrus is a specific phase of the estrous cycle. Source: Pathways to Pregnancy and Parturition by Phillip L. Senger, 1997. 207.238.30.19 19:19, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that the part about the spelling of estrus/estrous/oestrous/oestrus, which is currently in "Differences from the menstrual cycle", be in "Etymology and nomenclature".--24.116.241.207 17:05, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Frequency
See Estrus -- how precisly are foxes bith polyestrous and diestrous? &#0149;Jim 62 sch&#0149; 20:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Mating season
"Mating season" links here. Where is discussion of mating season? We need this. Fresheneesz 03:43, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Bird Reproductive Cycles
There isn't anything on this page about birds and their reproductive cycles. If there is a page devoted to that, I haven't got a clue what it might be called (as noted above, Mating Season, which was the closest and only link I found that might be useful, links here instead).Dusk Raven (talk) 21:24, 7 May 2008 (UTC) !
 * Birds are not mammals, so there is no reason they would be listed on the page. The page talks about the oestral cycle of mammalian placental females. That includes all mammals except monotremes (as the platypus and the echidna or spiny anteater) and the marsupials or pouched mammals (as kangaroos, opossums, wombats, dasyures as Tasmanian devil, phalangers, and the banded anteater or numbat.Jon (talk) 07:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Alternative Estrus Explanation
The accepted explanation for the estrus behavior of the female ( "heat") makes no sense.

The only hormone which induces sexual excitement is testosterone. Serum testosterone levels in the estrus female are actually lower than at other times in the fertility cycle.

An alternative explanation for that proactive behavior, in which the female of the species in heat seeks to mate with any proximate male of the species, is in differences in the pelvic floor between species of placental mammals which have estrus and species which do not.

Examining the comparative anatomy of the genital structures of the estrus and non-estrus species shows that the structures in the clitoris are different in one particular; the location of the vestibular bulbs. These bodies are homologous, in gross appearance and in histology, to the bulbous glandis of the penis. In the dog the latter are the prominent bodies which lock the penis in the vagina during coitus.

In the estrus female the vestibular bulbs are located directly against the glans clitoridis. At the beginning of estrus, they are inflated with blood, via a blood supply separate from the rest of the clitoris. This puts pressure on the glans, producing stimulation of the Pathian bodies in that structure. As long as the vestibular bulbs are inflated, the female will experience sexual excitement, even without testosterone.

In women, a non-estrus species, the vestibular bulbs have migrated out of the clitoris and are now along the urethra near to the fossa of that body. No matter how much they may swell during ovulation, they cannot induce sexual excitement by stimulating the glans.

This explanation for the absence of estrus in H.sapiens was probably brought about by a change in the timing of the closing of the pelvic ring at the pelvic (pubic) symphysis. Arne97 (talk) 13:40, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Specific species
Why put bovine, ewe, and goat in the same subcategory under this category? The ewe is a female sheep. Goats and sheep are both bovines, as are antelopes (except the pronghorn which is not a true antelope), gorals, serows, bison, buffalo, oxen, and numerous different species, as the musk-ox, chamois, and takin. It would have been sufficient to just put bovine, pig, and elephant in that list, or put in goat and sheep, but leave out bovine.Jon (talk) 07:49, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

mating season redirects here, but there is nothing on mating season
especially of non-mammallian species. Think of the wikilinkers please! TCO (talk) 18:00, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

Comment removed from article
The following remark had found its way in the "Differences from the menstrual cycle" section as an HTML comment. Without researching it I can't see how long it's been there, but it looks like a while. It's very difficult to see why it is good to have it in there as a comment, so I am moving it here. I'm sorry that is author remains unknown unless someone wants to do the work. Best wishes DBaK (talk) 08:31, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Comment from unknown author
This information does not help me one bit! In addition, there are behavioural changes in women during their fertile period, including increased walking (which is thought to be goal orientated, towards locations of known higher quality males, ie social gatherings etc that are analogous to 'watering holes'), decreased food, salt and water intake (which is thought to be an evolutionary strategy to allow them more time for pair finding), increased skin exposure, and women tend to wear clothes that they perceive to be more sexy). There are also a number of physical changes including: increased voice pitch; increase in gynoid content of breast fat; decreased hip:waist ratio; more attractive 'scent'; more attractive skin; gait changes.

Edit summaries
Could editors please please try to remember to use edit summaries here? I shouldn't be editing this article at all with my lack of knowledge of biology and I am likely to stop now but at least if editors used edit summaries we'd know what they were driving at and people like me night revert you less readily. Without it, as the Help:Edit summary article says, all sorts of problems are caused. If you make an edit and don't use one I don't think you should be surprised at being reverted, no matter how knowledgeable and correct your edit actually is! Thanks and best wishes DBaK (talk) 08:38, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Difference between menstrual cycle and estrus cycle?
What is this exactly? I understand them as the same thing. It does go to say that mammals who have estrus absorb the endometrium and those that menstruate discard it instead, but then it goes to say that humans, that menstruate, go into estrus.

I have some interesting questions: 1) Do all females that present menstruation undergo menstrual cycles?. Answer this with references, please. Menstruation is present in some species of bats and shrew that are not closely related to apes, hence we can't asume that they undergo menstrual cycles. 2) Could it be that there is a spectrum of cycles in mammals, and that the difference between estrous and menstrous cycles is not so easy to tell in many cases?. 3) In the end, it results that what defines more clearly a mentrual cycle is that it is a continous cycle in non pregnant females, while in estrous cycles there is phase that is more or less prolongated in which the females are "resting". What is the relationship between these continous ovarian activity in the menstrual cycle and menstruation itself?. Are they necesarily connected, or could there be mensrtual cycles without menstruations? (always talking about not pregnant females).

I agree with the former comment in that the differences between estrous and menstrual cycles is not well explained in the article. I know that the words estrus and estrous are very similar and can be confused, but in any case it would be better to start by telling which are the names of the ovarian phases in both cycles before going into explaining the differences. Also, the text dedicated to tell these differences is very vague, it should point clearly what are the anatomical and phisiologycal differences between both types of cyles during the different phases. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.136.185.152 (talk) 07:44, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Human female sexual receptive behaviour in estrous
Currently there is only a brief mention of female human sexual behaviour during estrous. It may be beneficial to further expand on this given available literature and research which explores the effects of estrous on female sexual preference. For example, preferences for facial masculinity and preferences for the scent of symmetry. Additionally, discussing how such preferences indicate attraction to markers of genetic fitness in mates may successfully add a supplementary section of relevant information to the article.

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513810000681 Gangestad, S. W., Thornhill, R., & Garver-Apgar, C. E. (2010). Men's facial masculinity predicts changes in their female partners' sexual interests across the ovulatory cycle, whereas men's intelligence does not. Evolution and Human Behavior, 31(6), 412-424.]

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513808000044 Garver-Apgar, C. E., Gangestad, S. W., & Thornhill, R. (2008). Hormonal correlates of women's mid-cycle preference for the scent of symmetry. Evolution and Human Behavior, 29(4), 223-232.]

[http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090513899000057 Thornhill, R., & Gangestad, S. W. (1999). The scent of symmetry: a human sex pheromone that signals fitness?. Evolution and human behavior, 20(3), 175-201.]

--EmmaOrton (talk) 23:18, 2 February 2016 (UTC)


 * EmmaOrton, I'm sure that the reason the article barely discusses humans is because, like the Differences from the menstrual cycle section currently states, "Humans have menstrual cycles rather than estrous cycles." As seen by this and this Google Books search, that is widely supported in the literature, though there are researchers, especially the evolutionary biologist type, like Randy Thornhill, who "argue that women have not lost estrus." And I see you've cited him above. The section is clear that "In species with estrous cycles, females are generally only sexually active during the estrus phase of their cycle (see below for an explanation of the different phases in an estrous cycle). This is also referred to as being 'in heat.' In contrast, females of species with menstrual cycles can be sexually active at any time in their cycle, even when they are not about to ovulate." Wikipedia goes by WP:Due weight, and so the topic of human estrus should not be given too much weight in this article. What you want to add would be more appropriate for the Ovulation article and/or the Concealed ovulation article. That stated, this article should include the evolutionary viewpoint that human females once had estrus, lost it, and that some researchers believe that human females still have it. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 23:56, 2 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Flyer22 Reborn That's not right. You're correct in your characterisation of Thornhill. But to suggest that he is alone in this is not accurate. There's a large body of evidence, which converges on the finding that women's behaviour mid-cycle (i.e. at estrus) is different than outside of that window. You're also right in saying that women are sexually receptive outside of their fertile window. However, your definition of estrus (as akin to being 'in heat') is misleading. I believe that EmmaOrton is referring to the theory of dual sexuality, which provides an account for women's continued sexual behaviour across the menstrual cycle. Nmuggleton (talk) 10:27, 19 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Nmuggleton, I did not state or suggest that Thornhill is alone on arguing that women have an estrus cycle, or on anything else. I stated that the "Humans have menstrual cycles rather than estrous cycles" aspect is widely supported in the literature, though there are researchers, especially the evolutionary biologist type, like Randy Thornhill, who argue that women have not lost estrus. In this case, those like Thornhill are the minority. And Wikipedia, per WP:Due weight, goes by the majority viewpoint far more than the minority viewpoint. I have not provided a definition of estrus (unless you mean me quoting the "In species with estrous cycles" text), so I don't see how I've been misleading on it. I've been clear that content about women having estrus cycles should not be in this article, unless included from the evolutionary viewpoint that human females once had estrus, lost it, and that some researchers believe that human females still have it. Otherwise, since scholarly sources usually state that women have menstrual cycles, as opposed to estrus cycles, the menstrual cycle content is a better fit for the Menstrual cycle article; this was suggested in the section below, and a class is currently adding such material to that article. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 11:09, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

__

Addition of a section on the estrus cycle and sexual behaviour
We would like to add a section on how women act differently during different stages of the ovarian cycle. We will look at this from an evolutionary perspective, focusing on how it the cycle affects women's sexual behaviour. JS.Chester 123hs — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rcuf235 (talk • contribs) 14:59, 3 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Rcuf235, see what I stated in the section above. Be sure to point your class to that statement as well. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:51, 3 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Flyer22 Reborn, thank you for pointing this out to us. Taking your comments on board we are considering adding this section to the Menstrual cycle page instead. Looking at what you have written above in the, would the menstrual cycle page be a more appropriate page for our contributions? JS.Chester (talk) 19:56, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * JS.Chester, hmm, perhaps. It is true that many women report being more likely to engage in sexual behavior at certain points of their menstrual cycle. You all would need to take particular care with that article, though, since it's WP:Featured. I'll contact WP:Med to weigh in on this. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:02, 5 February 2016 (UTC)


 * Contacted. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 20:21, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
 * as Flyer22 Reborn indicated it is Featured, however content in question seems to add positively to article..IMO--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 11:55, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Section on Estrus could be more detailed
- The definition for estrus is too simple here. There is evidence to show that not only is estrus marked by increased sexual receptivity, it is also marked by an increase in proceptivity (referring to the courting phase that occurs before copulation).

- This section also fails to mention some of the physiological changes that may occur during estrus across some species. Such information is important from an evolutionary perspective as it helps to explain why estrus has been selected as a trait. For example, female chimpanzees develop swellings around the genital area during estrus, advertsising to potential mates that they are nearing a stage of increased fertility. In terms of explaining how estrus came to be selected this is important as it increases the chances of conception (by signalling fertility and thus increasing the chances of mating with a male).

- This section also fails to elaborate on some of behavioural changes that often occur during estrus, and why these have been important in its selection as a trait. For example, important function of increased sexual receptivity is that it can result in parental confusion in males ('parental confusion hypothesis'), which can help elicit material rewards from these males. In species such as chimpanzees, for example, males are known to kill offspring that do not belong to them; consequently, if males are uncertain regarding their parental status, they are less likely to kill the new offspring, thus increasing its chances of survival.

LiamW1265 (talk) 12:17, 4 February 2016 (UTC)

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