Talk:Ethan Couch/Archive 1

Proposed deletion
Must contest this. A google search for Ethan Couch yields 104,000,000 results as of 12/15/2013 --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:26, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Read WP:GHITS....William 18:29, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I could see changing the title to something like Case of Ethan Couch, but deleting doesn't make sense. THis is big story and a serious issue. --BoogaLouie (talk) 18:36, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Another factor in the story being about Couch and not just this incident is previous occurences of wrong doing.
 * It was not his first alcohol-related run-in with the police. In February, he was caught with a can of beer and a bottle of vodka and cited for possessing and consuming alcohol as a minor. and
 * Dr Miller pointed to Couch’s parents’ decision not to punish him after he was found by police in a parked pick-up truck with an unconscious, undressed 14-year-old girl a year before the fatal accident. (from http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/ethan-couch-texas-quadruple-murderer--or-a-victim-of-affluenza-9004308.html) --BoogaLouie (talk) 19:09, 15 December 2013 (UTC)

KEEP This person is central to the first court case for "Affluenza". JD Lambert(T 18:09, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Close this discussion - we are already having a similar discussion at the articles AfD.--BabbaQ (talk) 18:22, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Here is a link to the Articles_for_deletion/Ethan_Couch. Comments on Keep or Delete should be posted there.--Nowa (talk) 22:43, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

Age?
Defendant's age at date of offence needs to be stated.Shtove (talk) 13:52, 19 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Done.--Nowa (talk) 15:06, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

in the news
again. Bearian (talk) 19:18, 21 August 2014 (UTC)

Reconsideration of redirecting or merging Ethan Couch with Affluenza
A previous discussion in December 2013 for this page's deletion is at Articles for deletion/Ethan Couch, where the consensus was to keep the page.

On April 12 2014, new news of Ethan Couch emerged concerning a judge's decision to allow Ethan Couch to only pay a fraction of the actual cost of treatment at a state mental hospital. Obviously this will lead to an increase in searches for this person. I feel that Ethan Couch's page should redirect to Affluenza. While the discussion about Affluenza is important, I do not feel that this person merits his own page based on the policies on Biographies_of_living_persons. I feel that in regards to WP:BLP1E, Ethan Couch very much matches the first two conditions and can be argued to match the third. The accident that Couch was involved with is significant in the context of the Affluenza, but on its own is, while tragic, not significant. Psytherea (talk) 15:23, 14 April 2014 (UTC)


 * Perhaps the article should be redirected to the Judge that ruled the case - Jean Hudson Boyd. Many or perhaps most of the "coverage" refers to the Judge's Ruling. Some are more concerned of the Judge's no Jail sentence than the actual incident. However I'm not sure myself.Caseeart (talk) 01:09, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I am against merging. This article subject is notable on its own. And also if merging should take place a discussion and !vote has to take place.--BabbaQ (talk) 17:59, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 *  Reply  - I also believe that even if Couch is not notable on his own, that the case is an extremely prominent one with respect to the affluenza defense, and that at a minimum, the article should either be renamed, or should be merged with Affluenza. --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:37, 24 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Agreed, I am against merging also. This article subject is DEFINATELY notable on its own.16:10, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

On the run.
Sources: CNN CNN2 BBC WFAAFusionLord (talk) 04:22, 18 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I think this should definitely be expanded upon. Right now there's a single sentence on this. I'll add to it when I have some time. WikiWisePowder (talk) 16:53, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

Website
I commented out the site in the infobox (http://ethancouch.org) because it is a WordPress site someone made with a wanted poster for Ethan Couch and a copy of the Wikipedia article on himI (not credited). Do you think this is appropriate? — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiWisePowder (talk • contribs) 18:53, 19 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I know that you feel very strongly about this article, but Wikipedia has certain guidelines that have to be followed. Especially relevant here is WP:BLP, which applies to any article about a living person, not just biographies. It says:


 * "Never use self-published sources – including but not limited to books, zines, websites, blogs, and tweets – as sources of material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject (see below). "Self-published blogs" in this context refers to personal and group blogs. Some news organizations host online columns that they call blogs, and these may be acceptable as sources so long as the writers are professionals and the blog is subject to the newspaper's full editorial control. Posts left by readers are never acceptable as sources."


 * All WordPress sites are self-published, making them unusable in BLP articles. Also, you have a conflict of interest with this article, so any changes you want to make need to be suggested on the talk page. Please don't continue simply reverting to avoid an edit war. Finally, please avoid profanity. See the messages on your talk for more detailed summaries of these policies. WikiWisePowder (talk) 16:03, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

High school student
The info box says "Education: High school student". I believe that he was a home-school student, and that he dropped out, at that. Does anyone know for sure? Thanks. 2602:252:D13:6D70:D47B:EA5:D41E:85DA (talk) 21:05, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The section # Refs in violation of BLP brings up a source which says that he went to Anderson Private School (also confirmed by http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/lsquospoiled-bratrsquo-defense-keeps-teen-out-of-jail-in-dui-fatalities/ ) WhisperToMe (talk) 21:52, 26 December 2015 (UTC)


 * No. That article is dated two years ago (2013).  And it says: "In testimony last week, LeVonna Anderson, an administrator at the Anderson Private School that Couch had once attended, testified that ... ".  The same article continues with: "That was the teen's last year at the school, Anderson said."  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 09:35, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Well went is past tense. Somebody may have "went" to a school but it doesn't mean they graduated from there. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:08, 28 December 2015 (UTC)


 * The info box says "Education: High school student". To me, that reads as if to say "Ethan Couch is presently a high school student."  It does not say "The educational level achieved by Ethan Couch is a high school level education."  I think if we remove the word "student", it should be fine.  Then, the info box will say "Education: High school".   That seems to be what was originally meant, anyway, I believe.  Thanks.  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 07:27, 29 December 2015 (UTC)


 * A few more things: The D Magazine article stated that after being piulled out of Anderson he was put in some correspondence courses. He dropped out of those, but then started attending community college WhisperToMe (talk) 10:07, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. So did this guy ever graduate from high school?  So should the Info Box be amended to say "Education: Community College"?  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 10:22, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * I haven't seen a reference which says that he got a high school diploma. The fact that he was taking community college classes was verifiable. I don't know what classification his correspondence classes had (whether they would count as middle school or high school). Also I learned Anderson Private School doesn't technically use levels. Typically students dual enroll at college and Anderson at 16, and AFAIK they end their time after age 16. Couch AFAIK quit Anderson around age 13. WhisperToMe (talk) 11:03, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. To get into a community college, doesn't one need to have graduated high school?   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:29, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Maybe in some situations, but not all. I went to a community college while still in high school. RichBryan (talk) 21:57, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Yes, a fact that only adds to the confusion.  So, I think it's best we not mention his education "status" at all.  It's unclear.  And, it's not particularly important to the article.  So, as stated below, I have removed the notation from the Info Box.  Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 01:20, 31 December 2015 (UTC)

I removed the "high school education" notation from the Info Box. Per the above conversation, his school "status" is too confusing and unclear. Plus, I don't think that his education (high school and/or community college, or home school, or correspondence school, or whatever) is germane to his notability. His notability centers around his criminal cases and his affluenza defense. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 19:32, 30 December 2015 (UTC)

For what it's worth, here is a good read that details Couch's educational progressions: The Worst Parents Ever. It offers more details on the twists and turns of his education. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:36, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Refs in violation of BLP
I have removed content based on some refs that aren't in line with WP:BLP a list and relevant revisions (if you want to find better sources to readd the content) follows:

WikiWisePowder (talk) 17:05, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * The Worst Parents Ever" (Archive). D Magazine. May 2015. Retrieved on December 22, 2015. — This source is definitely not NPOV and not verifiable, it is a tabloid style opinion article that if it were on Wikipedia it would be speedy deleted as an attack page. (revision https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ethan_Couch&oldid=696361074)


 * Has this article been discussed before? Is it being removed because you feel it is "gossip" in some way? It's not self-published and it's not a primary source from a third party. I took a look through Biographies_of_living_persons. It mainly talks about avoiding gossip, primary sources, and/or self-published sources from third parties.


 * "definitely not NPOV" - Sources don't have to be NPOV. Having an opinion on somebody (especially a public figure) doesn't mean it's violating WP:BLP.
 * "not verifiable," - D Magazine should be a verifiable publication, shouldn't it?
 * Also consider the content in the edit. The content in the edit was strictly about Ethan Couch's school, fairly tame stuff

WhisperToMe (talk) 21:46, 26 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Is there any further comment? If not I would like to use this source again. I do not believe this source violates NPOV for the reasons I stated above, and that it's not against NPOV to use this source to source uncontroversial statements about Ethan Couch's education. WhisperToMe (talk) 10:23, 30 December 2015 (UTC)


 * Sorry i took so long to answer, if you believe this source is acceptable the add it back. I know refs on wikipedia aren't required to be NPOV, but going over BLP it says sources on blp articles are held to higher standards than usual, including NPOV, but maybe i missunderstood. I said it's not verifiable because it doesn't give any sources or references. BLP also says to avoid opinion pieces which i believe this is. but if you think it should be in the article the it's OK. WikiWisePowder (talk) 16:15, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
 * By verifiable it means the process of sourcing a statement on Wikipedia to a secondary source. The secondary sources themselves may not divulge where they get every scrap of information from, especially if it's a journalism article. (In this case they interviewed the director of the school where Couch went, so there should be no doubt he went to that school) WhisperToMe (talk) 02:56, 6 January 2016 (UTC)


 * I believe that the ref is fine. Does not violate BLP.   Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 18:36, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Thank you :) WhisperToMe (talk) 02:56, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Fugitive status and capture
The article states: On December 31, Tonya Couch was flown to Los Angeles International Airport, and was arrested by the Los Angeles Police Department on a felony charge of hindering apprehension of a felon. Does anyone know why the LAPD would have any jurisdiction to arrest her? Or to be involved in the case at all? Thanks. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 04:36, 5 January 2016 (UTC)


 * The U.S. Marshals needed a place to hold her, thus LAPD. Heyyouoverthere (talk) 06:28, 12 January 2016 (UTC)


 * Thanks. OK.  This is a federal matter.  So, technically, the U. S. Marshals would have arrested her, not the LAPD, correct?  In other words, the U. S. Marshals arrested her, the LAPD simply held her.  Is that right?   And, if so, the wording that I cited above needs revision.  Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 17:22, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Extradition of Ethan Couch
 Support addition - The following was removed from the article: "Couch, having dropped his fight to be deported from Mexico, was flown back to the United States on January 28, 2016 and will be held in custody before appearing at a hearing on February 19 regarding his original juvenile probation case being transferred to the adult court system." --Jax 0677 (talk) 19:45, 28 January 2016 (UTC)


 * It seems like this was added back in. I don't see any problem with that material or with including it. Joseph A. Spadaro (talk) 06:41, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Infobox
I want to change the infobox to that of "criminal". While he is not "notorious" per se, he is known exclusively for his criminal behaviour and has indeed killed several. If anyone objects, let's discuss. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 18:07, 23 April 2016 (UTC)

Redirect of Tonya Couch to Ethan Couch
I was wondering whether it is still appropriate to have Tonya Couch redirect to Ethan Couch. When the redirect initially was set up the focus was on the criminal activity of Ethan--and a criminal Infobox as noted above was eventually set up. However there is now--and this is a change from when the redirect was first set up--a separate criminal proceeding against the mother. If she is convicted (of course due to BLP we cannot assume this until it happens) there will be a separate resolution of her case from that of Ethan--requiring a separate Infobox and, presumably, a separate Wikipedia article. Is it time now for a separate Wikipedia article for Tonya Couch? Dash77 (talk) 23:58, 20 June 2016 (UTC)
 *  Reply -, I have added a split section tag to the article to facilitate discussion about this issue. With that said, WP:BEBOLD. --Jax 0677 (talk) 01:43, 21 June 2016 (UTC)