Talk:Ethnic groups in the Caucasus

NAME OF THE ARTICLE
the article is called Caucasian peoples, but as it contains not only Caucasian peoples (ethnic groups) but also Indo-Europeans and Altaic group, the Article should re renamed to THE PEOPLES OF THE CAUCASUS!!!!! PLEASE, change the name, otherwise it makes no sense.

ALSO, i modified photo gallery from being divided into REGIONAL to ETHNIC and LINGUISTIC groups! DO not Edit! thnx!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickniko (talk • contribs) 13:54, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Request for clarification
According to the map, "Caucasian Peoples" are only those who speak the Caucasian peoples, and would therefore not include Kurds, Azeris, Ossetians, Armenians etc. Note how the article Peoples of the Caucasus in Turkey makes the distinction between "Peoples of the Caucasus" and "Caucasian peoples". Therefore I reccomend that this article be moved to Peoples of the Caucasus. Any thoughts? &mdash; Khoikhoi 00:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I gather most scholarly works and ethnographic accounts use "the peoples of the Caucasus" to denote the whole ethnic spectrum of the region. For example, Routledge publishes the Caucasus World: People of the Caucasus series which includes, among others, books on Armenians, Hemshins, and Mountain Jews. I think the "peoples of the Caucasus" is a legitimate title for the article which deals with all ethnic groups dwelling in the region. I’m less sure about the "Caucasian peoples", which seems to be frequently used interchangeably with the peoples of the Caucasus. How about creating a disambiguation page for the Caucasian peoples and having something like this:


 * Caucasian peoples may refer to:
 * The Peoples of the Caucasus, various ethnic groups inhabiting the Caucasus region;
 * The indigenous peoples of the region speaking the languages restricted to the Caucasus area: South Caucasian, Northwest Caucasian, and Northeast Caucasian?--KoberTalk 06:15, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

The article also include Russian Kuban- and Terek Cossack peoples among the "peoples of the Caucasus" is it right to do so? According to newsmedia there is a "widespread antagonism" against "peoples of the Caucasus" among Russians. On the other hand that might be exaggerated, maybe this hostility depends on what region of Russia one is talking about? In the Caucasus region i don´t know the relations between Cossacks and the "other Caucasians". But anyway for example the Cossack folkdress to me looks very similar to the folkdresses of the other peoples in the region, but also we have the dzhigitovka. It happens that the Cossacks call themselves Caucasians, contradictory? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.89.115.130 (talk) 01:03, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

People(s)
Some anon changed all instances in this article of the word "peoples" to "people". Personally, it doesn't make much sense. This article contians lists of many different ethnic groups, not just one. Also, it sounds better in English. &mdash; Khoikhoi 04:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)


 * i totally agree with Khoikhoi, the move was needed to clarify and address the question of other ethnic groups living in Caucasus besides Caucasian ethnic group. Thanks. Ldingley 17:17, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Race of peoples of the Caucasus
I thought maybe someone should include a section to the article discussing/explaining the "race" of the peoples of the Caucasus. That is to say, which would be considered "white" and which would be considered "Asian", etc etc. I lack the knowledge to make such an edit myself. Static Sleepstorm 09:11, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Too much blondes in pictures
Well, among caucasians there is blondes, but they are rare and couldn't represent caucasians. 159.148.71.250 06:10, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Well, my family is Migrel and most of my relations are blonde/fair or ginger as well as some with dark hair. It depends on what area/region you are in. 86.213.185.242 (talk) 10:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Village people Azerbaijan.jpg
Image:Village people Azerbaijan.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.Caucasians are sick and they are very racial and horrible for what they did to African Americans in Slavery. Well most white people are horrible.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 16:54, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Azeribaycana.jpg
Image:Azeribaycana.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 08:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

Georgians, Mingrelians, Laz, Svans
A slow edit-war seems to go on here. Some people seem to include Mingrelian, Laz and Svan people under the hyperonym "Georgians" while some others don't and separate them. To me, putting them into seperate groups, and not subgroups of Georgians, makes more sense, but I'm not sure... I demand this to be discussed here. Mingrelian, Laz and Svan are clearly different languages from Georgian (and not dialects), that's for sure... but are they each a people on their own? — N-true (talk) 22:13, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Halloo, first of all i want to thank you your contributions to this and many other articles concerning Caucasus and specifically Georgia. BUT as you can not have perfectly prominent knowledge of every language of the world, allow me to explain some minor details about Georgia and its Languages.

Adjarian is not a different Language, they speak normal Georgian with some Dialect. every region of Georgia (12 of them) has it's own Dialect that differs from literature language with some intonations and sometimes short list of words. For comparison would you classify German spoken in Bremen (north) and Berlin as different Languages? SO, please STOP editing the section!!!

When it comes Svan, Megrelia and laz, as u might know they, together with modern Georgia Deliver from one, proto-Georgian(Kartvelian that is translated as "Georgian" into Georgian)language and status of them as independent languages is still debatable (fore more eminence, something simmilar to Hochdeustch und Bairisch dialcets), although should be noted that I, as a native literature-Georgian speaker, would not be able to understand Megrelian or Svan (although can catch some common words and very common Grammatical structure). that is why i live it in separate languages (although i changed People link to Language link).

Hope we cleared it out. I am pretty sure that Southern Caucasian Language section looks perfect now, so no editing is needed.

Thnx again |\| ! |{ 11:02, 16 March 2010 (UTC)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickniko (talk • contribs)

What was the reason of excluding Kartvelian languages from the paragraph 'Peoples speaking Caucasian languages'? I consider those changings groundless because no source was offered for substantiation. I'll remove changes. If anybody don't consent to this, arguments and reliable sources should be introduced. Thanx.MrKindSailor (talk) 08:49, 21 August 2012 (UTC)MrKindSailor

Re-insertion of Caucasian "race" bit is inappropriate
This article quite clearly states in its first line that the "concept" of Caucasian race is dealt with elsewhere. This article is about the actual peoples who live in the Caucasus. The concept of Caucasian race is outdated and unscientific, as the article about Caucasian race clearly states. Some information which was previously in this article (Peoples of the Caucasus) did not take the criticism in the Caucasian race article on board, was romanticised and unbalanced, and was irrelevant to this article in any case, and it was therefore deleted. It has now reappeared, and I propose to delete it again. I suggest that anyone who disagrees with this approach should discuss the matter on the talk page. If a section on this is included again (why???) it should at least correspond to the NPOV coverage the "concept" gets in Caucasian race. Bofoc Tagar (talk) 13:31, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

1. South Caucasian (Kartvelian (i.e. Georgian) includes Svan and Megrelian languages. 2. Mingrelians, Laz, Svans, as well as Kakhetians, Adjarians and others are all Georgian people. Nationality is Georgian (somewhat similar situation is in Italy, for example).  There is only one nation - Georgian nation. All people in every region in Georgia consider themselves as Georgians. This is well known here in Georgia. Anyway this article needs lots of work  All discussions in the encyclopedia should be based on   scientific ground, therefore  I’ll try to add relevant information as soon as possible--Zetalion (talk) 14:57, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Relevance of the Article and the Name
The Article is called "Peoples of the Caucasus" when it almost entirely talks about the languages of the peoples of the Caucasus. Will be nice if information like Ethnic and historical backgrounds, statistical data etc. will be added, otherwise makes no sense to keep Article under current name, "The languages of the Peoples of the Caucasus" might be more acceptable. BTW similar article exists - Languages of the Caucasus  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nickniko (talk • contribs) 15:20, 1 March 2010 (UTC)

I thought the article was meant to describe the people of Caucasia
I don't understand. Can someone please explain the characteristics of Caucasian people (physical features) thank you Miebi (talk) 23:49, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

North Caucasian pictures
North Caucasian is too broad a category, and two of the groups listed there - Ossetians and Cossacks (especially Cossacks) - don't belong there at all. It should be broken up, and Ossetians and Cossacks should be given an Indo-European category, or something like that. Maybe Ossetians are vaguely North Caucasian as they have certain cultural traits that they picked up from their neighbors.... but Cossacks are not Caucasian at all really. They copied some things, but they are definitely far more Russian (i.e. Northeastern European, Slavic, with some Turkic influence, etc...) than they are Caucasian. --Yalens (talk) 21:52, 22 October 2010 (UTC)


 * And also... could someone get a good picture of Makka Sagaipova for Chechens? Because she is a very good example of the ideal (perhaps not shared by a majority of Chechen women, but rather the ideal, you know what I mean?) Chechen female in appearance :).--Yalens (talk) 21:54, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

Cossacks
Cossacks are Ukrainians, although they may speak Russian dialects. They are of Ukrainian ethnic origin, and the "Cossack nation" was part of Ukraine. The Cossacks are doubtlessly part of the Ukrainian ethnic group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.27.186 (talk) 22:22, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Ayrums/Urums/Hayhurums
Someone needs to add the Ayrums/Hayhurums who are an Urum people, descendants of Greek colonialists in the Caucasus. They are similar to the Pontic Greeks and other Caucasian people of Greek descent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.163.64 (talk) 19:25, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Rename Article
Anyone has problems with calling this article Peoples of the Caucasus ? It was proposed years ago and it seems the most logical. Mash  Talk  18:49, 18 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I have renamed it back. Caucasian peoples and peoples of the Caucasus are not the same. For example Ossetians live in the Caucasus but their language is not Caucasian.--Bouron (talk) 09:31, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Galleries
I think the galleries in the article violate WP:IG. That persons are not the whole peoples so that images can't illustrate the topic of this article. Sher doesn't illustrate Armenian people. Such the galleries maybe good as decorations but not as in the section named Ethnic groups.

I suggest to delete them.--Bouron (talk) 10:05, 14 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I am deleting the galleries...--Bouron (talk) 12:46, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

languages = peoples
languages = peoples. For example, see ibid (Peoples of the Caucasus): Northeast Caucasian peoples and Northwest Caucasian peoples (languages = peoples). Сlassification principle is a language. Sources of the second classification available? No need to invent a new classification of the category of "I like is it." --RosssW (talk) 05:58, 24 October 2012 (UTC)


 * Wikipedia article is not a source and your formula "languages = peoples" needs reliable sources. And I don't know what you mean by "second classification".--KoberTalk 20:54, 24 October 2012 (UTC)


 * "My version" is based on the classification of the language, sources see by language. Your version of the classification ("second classification") has no sources and no logic. Where are they?--RosssW (talk) 06:43, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia article is not a source. Wikipedia article is logic of the classification. "My version" has logic (language classification - traditional in Wikipedia) and sources (see the linguistic classification). Your version does not have logic and sources. Do not engage in wars edits.--RosssW (talk) 06:43, 25 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes. Zans is group.
 * But "Peoples speaking Caucasian and Kartvelian languages" of course, take into account the linguistic classification. --RosssW (talk) 09:07, 26 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Britannica. Caucasian peoples: (Caucasian peoples!) "...The southerners, comprising the Georgians, the closely related Mingrelians and Laz, and the Svan, make up the Republic of Georgia and live in western Transcaucasia (the Laz live in Turkish territory)..." They identified separately as a peoples. (Adzharians, Imeretians etc. are not identified separately, of course). --RosssW (talk) 10:40, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Turkish People
Why are Turkish people not in the list for Turkic peoples. Turks constitute the largest ethnic group in Artvin, Ardahan and Kars which are generally considered part of the Caucasus80.43.13.144 (talk) 23:07, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

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Non-sense of used map
This map has nothing to with reality. It needs to be reworked as soon as possible. Please who's the person in charge of editing this article rework it. Or let other people do this for you. Otherwise this article is pretty much smells like lies. I don't mention the map doesn't include turkish people in Artvin and oversized look of kurdish-speaking people, also after the second Karabakh War armenian population in lower karabakh area is 0 so you should edit this too. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EntityRrr (talk • contribs) 17:09, 12 January 2022 (UTC)