Talk:Ethnic pornography/Archive 1

survied Afd
To all of you wikipedians out there... THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!! This is the very first article of my own creation that actually survived the dreaded VfD... thank you again. My thanks go out to all of the following: ...But still, I would like to say that this page should not be moved or renamed because the the word "ethnic" was chosen precisely for its broadness. Sweetfreek 04:39, 25 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Redwolf24
 * JIP
 * james gibbon
 * Youngamerican
 * Barno
 * Dcarrano
 * PrologFan
 * jonasaurus
 * siafu
 * The Anome (your additions to this page and many other have been indespencible... I think I spelled that right)
 * BD2412
 * Grutness
 * FunkyChicken!
 * Antaeus Feldspar
 * Crevaner
 * Behemoth

OK, here's a stub, to stop this from being a mere list. Please can someone knock this into NPOV shape, which it needs, as this topic has something to offend everyone. -- The Anome 10:32, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

Hm. It seems to me that there are several themes here: -- The Anome 10:46, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)
 * fetishization of "the Other" in general,
 * interracial pornography (which is the common term for much of what is discussed here, and should probably have its own article),
 * and exoticism, of which Orientalism is only one form; for example, take the Japanese fetishization of European women, which is just as extreme as the Western fetishization of Eastern women.

Hmm. Not sure about the article title; this is a real encyclopedia subject (see above), but the exact name is not commonly used. "Interracial pornography" is, but does not cover the case of depictions of, say, Indian women aimed at British men (for example, Asian Babes magazine.) -- The Anome 11:18, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)


 * Mightn't it suggest a more fleshed-out treatment if it were moved to, say, ethnic stereotypes in pornography, which strikes me as what it's turning out to be about in any case? I think it does need to move from mere lists of ethnonyms to an extended discussion of the particular sexual stereotypes associated by each culture with various sorts of foreigners.  Exogamy needs to be discussed, also, especially from the viewpoint of evolutionary psychology: i.e. foreigners are fair game, while the ones you marry are the ones from your own ethnic group.  The various vehicles of ethnic sexual stereotypes perhaps should be discussed also; sexual humour plays a large role in this, by my impression.  --Smerdis of Tlön 13:35, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)


 * And, FWIW, I'd like to see some reference for the notions that the Philistines were Greeks, or that they had blond hair. -- Smerdis of Tlön 13:58, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I move for VfD. Google returns only vaguely relevant results, term is not a true genre of pornography, article is a FAR Left Wing turd that needs flushed. --TheDoober 09:06, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

YEAH!!!! Right wingers DON'T USE pornography!!!!! (yeah-right). What total hypocrisy.--Aufidius 15:05, 14 July 2005 (UTC)


 * Welll... searching IAFD for "adult films" with the word "Black" in their titles found 1833 movies. "White" gets 431. "Latin" gets 346. "Asian" gets 310. "Interracial" gets 140. "Chica" gets 44 - 8 = 36 hits (the 8 are hits on "Chicago"). So, that's a total of 3096 movies, out of a total of roughly 51,000 movie listed in IAFD: just over 6% of all the titles contain one of the clear racial identifiers given above. And there are lots more ethnic-type movies which don't have a clear racial tag in the title. I'd say that's pretty significant. -- Karada 13:28, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Vote for Deletion
This article survived a Vote for Deletion. The discussion can be found here. -Splash 01:25, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Clarification please
I have a problem with the following line:

"Interracial" pornography with Black men and White women is usually viewed by White males. There are many possibilities to interpret this trend.

First of all, what is the source for this information?

Second, are not the majority of porn viewers in the USA in general, white males? 70% of the population is white, and males are more prone to watching pornography than females.

Yes, that's a statistic. If porn producers would target only black males, they'd totally go bankrupt. Black male population of the US cannot consume such a huge amount of "race-oriented" pornography or pornography of whatsoever kind.

The majority of overall porn viewers may be white males, but this does not mean that white males are the primary consumer of every single type of porn. Where did the idea that the majority of black-on-white porn viewers are white males come from? Industry magazine? Playboy? the kennel?

We need to get a lot more real statistics into this article. I'm sure that the white male statistic has legitimate basis somewhere. Are there any books or Encyclopaedia articals on this subject? That would certainly help.


 * Almost nothing in this article has a cited source. Noclevername 21:12, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

No Jewish ethnocentrism ?
"Ethnic pornography may also serve the audience of that subset of a particular ethnic group who are only interested in looking at people of their own group. For example, there are a number of Jewish pornography websites whose material seems primarily directed at Jews(...)" Hm, Jewish ethnocentrism doesn't exist ?Prof. Steve Rubenstein (Athens, Ohio)and his gang (called the "cabal" in the following ) deleted article "Jewish ethnocentrism". I will recreate the article or cancel this sentence.


 * I think he's saying that his article on Jewish Ethnocentrism got thrown in the trashcan, and that he considers the commentary on Jewish pornography here to be a supporting argument to its existence. If you're reading this, friend, and you do decide to recreate the article, I suggest you hire a ghost writer for it. - 219.194.176.88 10:29, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Regional preferences
The subsection does not cite its sources and is potentially original research. Shawnc 05:34, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * That's a problem of almost the entire article, and I've tagged it as such for that reason. Шизомби 20:45, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Article title
The notion that racially or ethnically oriented pornography inherently involves stereotypes is, while not a groundless opinion, an opinion nonetheless. I think the title should be changed to something more neutral, like "Ethnic pornography" or "Ethnically-oriented pornography" or something like that. -Branddobbe 04:38, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree completely. Ethnic pornography redirects here, and it's possible to make a distinction between ethnic themes, and the stereotypes that sometimes accompany them. PseudoAnon 07:19, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Dating

 * There are also pornography websites aimed at the Arab, Indian and Pakistani markets, countries where traditional morals and attitudes toward women make dating difficult or impossible for many young men.

While dating is also usually somewhat limited in these countries is the reason for pornography really to do with dating or more because they can't have sex? Nil Einne 11:40, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Stub
On May 16, 2006 Schizombie placed a stub at the top of this article. However, since most of the claims presented in it seem difficult to dispute I suggest that all personal requests for sources be placed only next to individual claims. Besides, similar requests have been duly addressed earlier. Therefore, I’m removing the stub as redundant. Poeticbent 23:26, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

On 26 September 2006 Banyanboy placed a  request inside this article. However, the matter has already been addressed in edits as of 22 September 2006 as I've noticed. Please, read the history first, before making further requests for verification of sources.

It would also be interesting to see a Japanese language speaker verify the corresponding subsection of the article by providing local Japanese sources. Poeticbent 17:21, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

More about ethnic stereotypes?
The article tells very little about the ethnic stereotypes and their origin, whether it is rooted in reality (racialism) or in racism. One stereotype is the black man with a large penis. Some race scientists suggest that black men generally have more testosterone than whites, and if testosterone affects the penis size this science is relevant. The "pedomorphy" (child-like traits) of asian women is mentioned in the asian fetish article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.167.184.103 (talk) 14:08, 18 December 2006 (UTC).


 * Most of the opinions in regards to black penis size as larger than average come from a guy named Philippe Rushton, a man who also suggests that the testosterone link makes blacks less intelligent. There is no evidence for this that I can find, and mainstream biologists and anthropologists generally respond to Rushton with annoyance or laughter.  There are several sources (many listed on the Wikipedia article Penis_size) that clearly refute any racial variation in penis size.  There is individual variation, but not racial variation. --CS


 * Is holocaust porn even real? I can find no mention of it beyond the Cohen article, and others that refer to it.  Smells like bullshit to me.  Unless other, preferably primary sources can be cited, I'd say that part should be deleted from this article.  At the very least, it should be heavily reworded to make clear that it's either so rare that nobody but this Cohen guy even knew about it, or possibly doesn't even actually exist at all.  TJD

—The preceeding unsigned comment was added by 71.87.34.189 (Talk) 02:27, 3 January 2007 (UTC).


 * We do not promote primary sources here in Wikipedia with regards to Holocaust pornography or any pornography, but maybe you'd like to confirm these collections of trailes, before questioning again the content of the article?  --207.102.64.197 19:11, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

are the luke is back sources reliable?
I notice they seem to make no distincton between comments and facts. A craigslist posting is being used in it. I think it needs to be checked.75.6.145.255 (talk) 12:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC)


 * 1) Craigslist? Really? Where?
 * 2) If you think a source needs to be verified, there's a tag that can be placed after the footnote in the text of the article. It puts a little flag next to the footnote. — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 19:41, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * one fourth of the article is a copypasta of a craigslsit post attacks blacks. The article also adds very little information. It is notable but it isn't reliable.198.189.252.135 (talk) 21:42, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I have to agree with the suggestion that this source has serious issues. It is also now outdated.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.53.145.22 (talk) 19:22, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Another activist article
Wiki is not a soapbox. Besides, the article is USA-centric. What about the use of so-called "ethnics" in pornography originating from other country? The article also fails to mention the presence of "ethnic" men in pornography. 68.46.183.96 (talk) 18:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

In notables do add Priya Rai... (more info at: http://www.priyaraiblog.com/bio/) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.167.112.126 (talk) 14:54, 26 April 2009 (UTC)

The audience for interracial porn
Shouldn't we mention the audience of interracial porn? Most of the people watching it are white men and more so than that the nonwhite(and typically black) male used is considered a way of degrading the female. YVNP (talk) 15:21, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * That's a nice theory. Do you have any reliable sources to support it? — Malik Shabazz (talk · contribs) 17:48, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
 * the lukeisback article this page links to says this. There others out there I'd be happy to find. YVNP (talk) 12:20, 3 January 2009 (UTC)