Talk:Ethnic stereotypes in comics

Moved from 'Ethnic Stereotypes in Comic Books
I'd go further and expand it out to Ethnic Stereotypes in Comics and discuss all of the forms, until the article grows too unwieldy. Hiding Talk 13:50, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree with Hiding here. We can add in comic strips (like Terry and the Pirates) as well. -- Ipstenu ( talk | contribs ) 15:31, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't it be in lowercase (Ethnic stereotypes in comics)?
 * Moved and redirect left at previous page. All talk has been mirrored here. --Jfang86 19:34, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Developing this Page
This page is under heavy construction. Since this is an immense topic to tackle, and since I can't claim any current expertise on subjects other than the Asian/Asian American section, although I have started this page, I hope you all feel welcome to add to and edit this article. Please document any substantial changes here. --Jfang86 05:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Started the page, established a preliminary set of categories, and created some content under the Asian category (Yellow Peril, Fu Manchu, Coolie, and Martial Arts Master). --Jfang86 05:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Racist villains
There's been a small but insistent trend toward villain characters whose racism is the source of their villainy over the last couple of decades. Would such characters belong in this page, or another, related page? Lokicarbis 05:08, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Interesting point, Lokicarbis, although I'm not sure an example comes to mind at the moment. Would you care to elaborate? Although I can think of a number of superheroes/villains who were motivated by a hatred of America following the bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima, I'm not sure that this is what you mean... --Jfang86 05:20, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the point Lokicarbis wants to make is that racial prejudice is an easy explanation for the villainy of many comics characters. This fact should certainly be mentioned here. Examples of racist villains would include: The Sons of the Serpent (Marvel Comics hate group) and the Aryan Brigade (DC Comics neonazi supervillains). There's many more, especially if we take fictional ethnic groups into consideration (such as Marvel's mutants.) Wilfredo Martinez 12:13, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I would say add the information to the current page and then we'll see afterwards if it needs to be split off into its own page. Personally, I could kind of see it going both ways... --Jfang86 21:41, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I think if there's common stereotypes of racist villain groups then it can probably be added, but if there isn't then it should be put elsewhere. --ColourBurst 03:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

American?
First line of the article: "...in the medium of mainstream American comics." I have no problem with this article being only about American comics, but shouldn't the title then reflect this as well? "Ethnic stereotypes in American Comic Books"? Otherwise, wouldn't it be better to remove the "American" from the first line? There are enough ethnic stereotypes in other comic books as well (e.g. Franco-Belgian comics). Fram 12:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * CovenantD 15:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Good point. Hiding Talk 16:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * We could certainly expand it out to encompass all comic books... I started writing from an American standpoint because that's what I know. --150.135.71.60 16:03, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I think expanding it to all forms of comics is instructive. It allows for exploring comic strips and editorial cartoons and caricature as well.  Ebony from The Spirit is one character to explore, in fact Eisner's work as a whole could be relevant, he spoke a bit on this issue.  I think we should start broad and work our way into specificity when needed. Are people okay with a move to Ethnic stereotypes in comics? Hiding Talk 16:12, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine by me! I'll try to add some referenced info on European comics (we have some very famous "yellow danger" comics from the late 1940s). Fram 18:24, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine by me as well, both with the move and addition of Eisner and European comics information. Should we leave a redirect here? --Jfang86 18:57, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Copy and Paste moves
Copy and Paste moves are a bad thing for copyright purposes. I'm going to go ask someone to merge the original histories together. See WP:CPMV--Toffile 19:33, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops. okay. --Jfang86 19:35, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've got it. Hiding Talk 19:59, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Hiding Talk 20:09, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks! *hangs head in shame* ^_^ --Jfang86 20:15, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Comics in the vein of Blaxploitation era movies
Was there a subset of black heroes mirroring the blaxploitation era movies? Luke Cage of course is the quintessential one, Misty Knight, Bronze Tiger and Black Lightning (Black Vulcan in the Superfriends show) I think counts too, and I was wondering if there were any others like them. Ah well, I guess I answered my own question. I'll start that section now.

Now that I think of it, Superfriends was pretty stereotypical period. There could probably be good material there.--ColourBurst 21:10, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think Luke Cage should also be included in a subsection on Black male sexual stereotypes. --Jfang86 21:42, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * You might be able to use these pages and their resource links. African characters in comics and History of Black Superheroes. --Basique 23:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Martial Arts Teacher
Should there be a section on the "old man martial arts teacher" (probably modelled after Mr. Miyagi in the Karate Kid). O-Sensei, who taught Richard Dragon, is the only character that's readily available.

The Sons of the Tiger seem to have both the Blaxploitation and the Asian Martial Artist cliche down, heh. --ColourBurst 03:28, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

White Stereotypes
Shouldn't this page also cover white ethnic stereotypes as well? While less controversial than the others, there have definitely been unflattering depictions of "white" people in comics, ranging from ignorant "white trash" (usually from the southern States) to stuck-up Europeans to minority-hating "People in Power". - Wilfredo Martinez 04:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes. CovenantD 04:53, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Southern people often have accents like Cannonball, Husk and Rogue in X-Men (though this actually varied from writer to writer). While Husk herself was self-conscious of sounding like a stereotypical Southerner, I don't think the writers wrote her that way, but it's been a while since I've read Gen-X.  Actually, non-Americans often had accents too, Nightcrawler, Wolfsbane and Banshee being the most egregious offenders.  However, are accents a form of stereotype?  I'd say probably, but I'm not sure.  Karma, though, annoyed me the most when she was written mixing French and English (you know, as opposed to Vietnamese???). --ColourBurst 05:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't know if this is a meaningful point or not, but it may be noteworthy to distinguish between ethnic versus other cultural (e.g., national, class, regional) stereotypes? The trick w/white stereotypes is that they are difficult to assign primarily to ethnicity.  White ethnic stereotypes that I can think of would include: the brutish Germanic, racist, and colonialist/imperialist -- of course there are likely more.  However, ignorant American/Germans-as-Nazis is nationalistic; Southerner/Yankee/Cowboy are regionally based; corporate greed and decadence (Lex, Tony Stark, even Batman pretends to fit this steroetype as Bruce Wayne)/white trash are more class-based. 70.91.8.169 15:53, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

On a related note, Psylocke was originally neither Asian nor American, she was originally Captain Britain's sister until she found herself switching bodies with a mutant ninja called Revanche. Curious how this hasn't caused the stir that Lois Lane turning Black did. - Wilfredo Martinez 04:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I think the Lois Lane thing is probably remembered more because she explicitly told everyone she was going to turn black. Psylocke's incident was a "body switch" without mention of race. --ColourBurst 05:12, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Would Jesse Custer's family in Preacher be a good example of (American) Southern "white stereotypes"? Actually, Garth Ennis seems to like (American) Southern stereotypes. --Newt ΨΦ 14:22, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Just to put it out there, Psylocke is currently racially Asian, and the martial arts ability that Psylocke has was granted by her transition into an Asian body -- i.e., when she transracialized into Asian, she also received ninja skills. I think she fits into the martial arts associated with Asian context. Also, Psylocke has caused a bit of a stir in the Asian American community, but it rarely makes its way to outward press. I know that I've had a problem with Psylocke (on a racial level) for years. I've added the White and Arabs sections...--Jfang86 21:47, 29 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Why hasn't this been added yet then? It's been in the discussion for years.... - There are loads if people think; it's just the West IS a white "stereotype" so no-one notices - All white who don't act "Black" could be a stereotype - or a spoiled middle class kid with an iPod... --Kurtle (talk) 18:29, 3 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Most of the examples mentioned don't seem to be "white stereotypes" as much as stereotypes of certain nationalities. I guess Americans could be pretty stereotyped in non-US-comics, however, and whites in general in manga... 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:42, 7 October 2020 (UTC)

Arab stereotypes?
What about Arab stereotypes? They don't seem to be included. Though I can't think of any off the top of my head, I would think that, like in movies, they would probably be portrayed as villainous terrorists. The Colonel may be one, since he wishes to strike back at American oppressors. --Newt ΨΦ 14:30, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Two questions.
 * Should "Arab" be changed to "Middle Eastern" since all of the Middle East tends to be stereotyped in comics as "Arab" or should it stay "Arab" and just a note be made that all of the Middle East tends to fall under that blanket?
 * If I've determined through research that "terrorist" is a common stereotype for Arab or Middle Eastern portrayals in comic books, then would it be OR to include a "terrorist" portrayal in a contemporary book that has not been deemed such in secondary sources? I am leaning strongly towards "yes, it is OR."
 * --Newt ΨΦ 15:48, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that would be OR, but I think you're right that Arab should be changed to Middle Eastern. If your research shows a further distinction, then maybe you could make Arab a sub-category? --Jfang86 20:53, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The more I look, the more I see a lack of distinction between these two, at least in stereotypes. Arab stereotype or Middle Eastern stereotype tend to be spoken about as the same thing.  In fact the only reference I've found to the Middle Eastern stereotype specifically is the "Middle Eastern appearance." --Newt ΨΦ 15:46, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

Avoid Original Research
Remember, folks, we're not here to do original research. We need to find sources that cite these as examples of ethnic stereotypes. We can't rely on our interpretations. CovenantD 14:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm finding a decent number of books and articles after googling for Arab stereotypes in comic books. I think I might take this part on. Well, when I'm not supposed to be working (like right now), that is.  --Newt ΨΦ 14:52, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * As Mr. Burns would say, Excellent. As long as everything is properly sourced, this has the potential to be a great article. CovenantD 15:00, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Absolutely, I agree. Of the stuff I've included, some are placeholders until I can find the research I'm thinking of.--Jfang86 21:49, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Alright, here's a blaxploitation heroes article that could be placed in. --ColourBurst 23:14, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That's what makes Wikipedia so ridiculous and UNNEUTRAL - the world itself and it's "sources" aren't neutral - EVER. Is a stereotype not an interpretation of anyones? What makes someone published more important than anyone else? It's just stupid.--Kurtle (talk) 18:34, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

--70.171.216.81 03:11, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Slowed Down
Things seemed to have slowed down around here. Anyway these two lists are under-representated and under-documented especially on this page. List of Native American superheroes, List of Hispanic superheroes. Both these groups have experienced their fair share of stereotypes in comics, and while I could build their sections, I feel it fair to offer you all a chance to do so first. --Basique 14:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed, they have slowed. I've run into a difficulty writing the section I called dibs on (Middle Eastern/Arab stereotypes} trying to get past writing it like an essay.  While I've found instances of stereotype, there's little about the stereotype inherent in characters like Arabian Knight (comics) and Dust (comics) wherein their powers are very much related to the region they come from (either lore or climate/environment).  I've found new attempts to break stereotype and failed attempts to break stereotype.  Most of the stereotypes I've actually found though are not specific, running characters but ubiquitous instances where Arabs are portrayed as terrorists or greedy oil sheikhs.  Because they aren't specific characters, it doesn't seem to follow the flow of the article. I'm attempting to get this done, but I've slowed down quite a bit.  I do plan on finishing it though. I'm currently attempting to find a reputable source that critically analyzes Qurac, so any aid someone can provide I'd much appreciate. --Newt ΨΦ 14:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * This is all I could find right now Atlas of the DC Universe and Qurac. This might also help The Religious Affiliation of Comic Book Characters --Basique 21:59, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Went ahead and added the little I'd done. Thank you for those links.  What I need is a discussion of Qurac's status in the DC Universe as a terrorist nation.  Only sources I've been able to find on that are blogs. Also looking for more sources talking about greedy oil shiekhs.  Also, are attempts to overcome stereotypes good for the article?  There are some recent attempts that could be relevant to the article. --Newt ΨΦ 20:29, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Check out the List of Islamic superheroes. --Basique 22:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Thanks again. However, the problem is that I have few sources for analysis of these.  I knew that some of these exist, like Dust, Arabian Knight, the 99, and some others, but there is little critical analysis of these in secondary sources, and making my own is original research. --Newt ΨΦ 22:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've been adding sections as I come across sources, but outside of articles on African American stereotypes, there's been little previously published research. Thanks for staying on top of this everyone, the page isn't abandoned, just going slower for me as I do the research for it.--70.171.216.81 03:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

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Further discussions
1st, I agree that the article should mention white stereotypes, like Germans and Russians. 2nd, I think it would look interesting with non-US examples of stereotypes, such as americans in Japanese WWII cartoons, etc. apparently, there was an animated cartoon produced, where all americans looked like Bluto from Popeye. Anyway, this article could need some work. Right now, it looks rather random. 惑乱 分からん * \)/ (\ (&lt; \) (2 /) /)/ * (talk) 17:55, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

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