Talk:Eton Group

Haileybury Group
I can't find anything at all on the web about the Haileybury Group - are you sure it even exists? Haileybury itself is part of the Rugby Group. Ottershrew 10:37, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It does exist, though its significance is not readily apparent - "Haileybury — including Haberdashers’ Aske’s and Brentwood — is a geographical grouping stretching from northeast London to East Anglia" -- zzuuzz (talk) 14:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Woodard Schools
I have removed the reference to Woodard Schools, this is because, the Woodard Schools are not comparable with the Eton, Rugby Groups;

Fistly, the Eton / Rugby / Haileybury groups are loose associations of Seperate Independent Schools unlike the Woodard Schools, many of whom are owned by the foundation.

Secondly, The Eton and Rugby Groups contain at least a significant number of the most well known schools in England, which makes these groups important trend setters in the Independent Sector, however, many of the Woodard schools are in the state sector.

Thirdly, The Eton / Rugby / Haileybury Groups have been cited in the press as the elite groups of schools.

Ramw2 00:18, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

The Woodard group contains schools that are in the same league as the other groups. Just because it also has state schools does not mean it shouldn't be mentioned, it is mostly independent schools and is larger than any of the other groups. Spanky Deluxe 12:05, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with this. There are few groupings of schools in the UK, and Woodard is one of them. They do not have to have the same 'status' to be mentioned together. Woodard should be a see also link from both here and the Rugby Group article. -- zzuuzz(talk) 14:07, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The top three schools of the Woodard group are very highly rated, in particular Lancing College which, for example, has comparable fees, comparable GCSE and A-Level results, comparable facilities etc. The fact that these schools are owned by a corporation shouldn't matter since it is still a group of schools, many of which are very highly rated and regarded. It consists of 23 independent schools owned by the corporation and is affiliated with 17 schools which are either state or independent. The article (and the Rugby group one which Ramw2 has edited similarly) says that the Eton group is one of the main national groupings of Independent schools. The Woodard Schools group has many *more* independent schools and many of the schools are comparable to those in both the Eton and Rugby groups in terms of fees, facilities and results. They are by no means small fry.Spanky Deluxe 15:09, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Dear Spanky Deluxe, as to your point, no, the schools in the Woodard Group do not have the same prestige as those in the other groups (the fact that you state "The top three schools of the Woodard group are very highly rated" is perhaps an indication of this), all the other groups contain at least several schools of national reputation (e.g. Eton, Winchester, Hailebury,), if you look at the list of schools in the groups, it is essentially a 'Who's Who' of prestigious English schools (although there are some notable exceptions). Meaning no disrespect to the Woodard Group, you would be pushed to find many educational professionals who would think of it in the same terms (the E / H / R Groups dominate the top of the Independent boys / mixed School tables), I would like to stress that this does not mean that Woodard Schools are worse at educating pupils, but you must agree that it's make up insn't as promenant as the Eton Group.

Secondly, size has nothing to do with it, there are many Companies / foundations which own mulitple independent schools e.g. the Girls Day School Trust, however, due to the prestige of the schools involved in the Eton / Rugby / Haileybury Groups they are regarded as the standard setters for Independent education (particularly boys) and for the HMC.

Thirdly, I feel you are missing an important differentiation which was mentioned in my previous reasoning. The E/R/H Groups are contain schools which are totally independent of each other, who meet and communicate about common issues. This is very different to the Woodard Schools who are simply a collection of schools which are either owned or have links to the Woodard Group. Therefore the Groups have a completely different purpose, make up and structure to the Woodard Group.

Pehaps the solution would be as follows:

The quote of the Eton / Rugby / Haileybury Groups being the main national groupings was taken from an article from the Daily Telegraph (it did not mention the Woodard Group), I actually removed it before the article was reverted and the claim added back in as well as a fourth group (by youself). Perhaps new wording should be something along the lines of "the E Gorup is a gorup of Independent Schools in England who come together to discuss matters of common interest. It is linked to the H and R Groups."

In Conclusion, I think the articles should be reverted to my previous edits, and agree with zzuuzz that the Woodard Group can be a link, but I feel it is misleading for it to be in the main text as it currently is. Until we have some type of agreement on this I am editing the pages to the proposal above.

I hope that we can resolve this amicably.

Ramw2 17:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality

 * "With long histories of strong academic achievement, the Eton Group are considered to be amongst the elite independent schools in the United Kingdom, continuously dominating the British independent schools league tables. Many of their alumni go on to leading British universities and have a significant influence and role in British society, leading the country in a number of areas"

You've gotta be kidding... This needs serious backing up with decent citations. I will remove it shortly if such citations aren't provided... Talk Islander 12:16, 19 February 2009 (UTC)

Canford School
Regarding the recent pushing of Canford, we have an academic reference (Walford) that lists the 12 Eton Group schools, a list that includes Highgate but not Canford. The newspaper reports about the Sevenoaks cartel mention that Canford was a member of the cartel; they do not say that it is a member of the Eton Group, and they certainly do not say that Highgate School is not a member (even though it was not in the cartel). Kanguole 23:27, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

I find this dismissal outrageous. Kanguole's case relies on the authenticity of a single source, Walford, who himself had taught at Highgate. Talk about bias... I find it even more hard to believe that a member of the Group, whose nature it was to discuss fees, would have gone against the other eleven schools in not raising their price (and thus not been in the cartel). I believe this serves as starker proof, Highgate is not a member. Kingsqueens (talk) 23:38, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Walford is a respected authority in the field. As for the notion that participation in the cartel is a guide to membership of the Eton group, there were some 50 schools in the cartel, including 7 of the 12 Eton Group schools – for more details, see this article, which lists the cartel schools and their affiliations on pages 20 and 21.  This split within the Eton Group is noted on page 14.  No source has been produced for the claims that Canford is a member of the Eton Group and Highgate is not.  Kanguole 00:03, 13 February 2018 (UTC)

Please quote the passage in A Portrait Of Canford 1923–1998 that says that Canford is a member of the Eton Group and Highgate is not. Kanguole 18:28, 17 February 2018 (UTC)