Talk:Etymology of hippie

Jesse Sheidlower and the word "hip"
Somehow during the recents edits of the "Hippie" article an important reference was ignored. This is an article by Jesse Sheidlower that appeared in "Slate" magazine (http://www.slate.com/id/2110811/), where he specifically and knowledgably refutes the theory that the word "hip" derives from "hep" in the West African Wolof language. Sheidlower maintains that the origins of "hip" are unknown, and given his credentials I believe we need to pay attention to his analysis.

It may be appropriate to bring in competing theories by Holloway et al in this expanded article. (Personally, I think they are kind of fun, and the cites are solid.) However I believe Sheidlower's expertise trumps theirs. Thanks. 03:59, 7 May 2007 (UTC)Apostle12 04:00, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Care to help? :) &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 06:27, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Sure; will contribute as time allows. Thanks for clarifying this issue in the "Hippie" article. Apostle12 08:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. I'll try and follow your good suggestions for improvement. I have a little free time.  Please check up on me when I'm finished and fix any outstanding issues. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 10:08, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

"Unknown" vs. "disputed"
The article says that on one hand there's a theory that that the word hip derives from an African word, but also that one expert disagrees with that theory. That means the origin is disputed. If the word "unknown" is used, it implies that nobody has any clue at all about where the word comes from. Spylab 13:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Hi Spylab. I would agree that "disputed" might be more appropriate if the opinions were expressed by people with similar qualification, or if the hard evidence were at all convincing.  However, neither appears to be the case.  Sheidlower went to great lengths trying to source the African language origin of the word hip and was unable to do so; he was forced to conclude that the claims of those trying to define a connection between Wolof and American slang are entirely speculative.  Although my research has not been as  extensive as Sheidlower's, I have seen no hard evidence that might substantiate the Wolof claim.


 * So I think it is appropriate to mention the Wolof issue in the expanded "Hippie (etymology) section)," yet inappropriate to mention it in the "Hippie" article itself. I believe "unknown" is correct in this case. Apostle12 19:53, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

First "contemporary" use of the term
Major issue here folks. Huge problem, regarding the first use of the word hippie to describe hippies. Although it's been clearly shown that the word was being used in the early 60's to describe beatniks, bohemians, and hip people in general, in many places of the world, one of the writers here has continued to claim that a September 1965 use of the term was "the first contemporary" use, merely because it was the first use of the term to describe San Francisco hippies, as if the earlier uses of the term were describing something else.

The statement has been deleted many times by many different editors, over a long period of time, but continues to be reverted back by the one and only person who agrees with the wording of this text. That one person, Viriditas, has reverted the text at least 10 times and seems immune to the 3 revert rule. In fact, anybody who deletes this horribly wrong line is sent a 3-revert warning and is threatened to be auto-blocked.

Not sure if this will make any difference discussing it here, since the Wiki mafia will just continue rolling along as usual, blocking people who dare to change their edits and deleting any edits they don't like.70.18.13.53 (talk) 03:38, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 * This has been discussed ad nauseum on Talk:Hippie and on your user page (when you are signed in) User talk:Morgan Wright. If there is a particular point that you would like to discuss, I'm all ears, however I would ask that you stop making personal attacks and stick to the subject. Thanks. &mdash;Viriditas | Talk 06:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Not "the hippist" by any means
The reference for the mondegreen "hippist" [sic] rather than "hippies" on the Orlons' "South Street" has vanished--maybe out of embarrassment? It was not a reliable source, anyway. In fact, while Wikipedia is about verifiability, not truth, a reading of "hippist" is prima facie unreliable. There are at least three Kal Mann-Dave Appel Cameo-Parkway songs, all released in 1963, that mention hippies: The Dovells' "You Can't Sit Down"; and The Orlons' "South Street" and "Crossfire"--which includes the line, "do something groovy [!] like the hippies do." The non-famous Tams group renamed "The Hippies" apparently recorded for Cameo-Parkway as well. So if no one objects, I will delete the misinformation.

Also, the claim that Chan Romero's 1959 "Hippy Hippy Shake" is the first mention in a recording ignores The Cookies' 1957 "Hippy Dippy Daddy." I do not have a reliable source for the date, however. Jackaroodave (talk) 16:58, 21 May 2019 (UTC)