Talk:Eugene, Oregon/Archive 2

Culture
This section needs some quite a bit of work. There's a lot of repetition and promotion with some organizational problems creeping in over time. Some paragraphs don't really relate to culture and should be placed in other sections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jquazimodor (talk • contribs) 15:32, June 17, 2006


 * For example, why is there a section for Performing Arts, and then a different section for Eugene Music? It makes it look like classical music isn't part of music in general. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Teresaclin (talk • contribs) 20:31, October 19, 2006

Activism
There really needs to be a section on activism. Eugene is very politically oriented, and there should be some things on the anti-sweatshop, as well as anarchist movements in the city. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Beret (talk • contribs) 04:16, September 6, 2006


 * This is true; Eugene has attracted a fair amount of outside attention due to Zerzan, the Seattle riots, ecoterrorism and environmental activism, etc. P4k 05:44, 27 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The anarchist movement has lost a lot of steam in Eugene the past few years, though environmental activism is still strong. But as the anarchist movement has faded somewhat, the socialist movement seems to be filling the void.  There is a chapter of the International Socialist Organization here now, and a recent performance of Howard Zinn's MARX IN SOHO attracted several hundred audience members.Comrade Sephiroth 03:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Discuss links here
Editors regularly clean out undiscussed links from this article. Please discuss here if you want a link not to be cleaned out regularly. (You can help!) Katr67 14:18, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Here is a list of links I removed from the article:

Arts groups offical websites

 * Actors Cabaret
 * Eugene Opera
 * LCC Theatre
 * Lord Leebrick Theatre
 * MacDonald Theatre
 * University Theatre
 * The Very Little Theatre
 * Willamette Repertory Theatre

I deleted the ones with their own article, these need articles written about them if they are notable, and not merely a link. If we include all the arts links in a separate section, soon a section of sports links, recreation links, etc. etc. will join them. Please discuss here before re-adding the links to the article, thanks. Katr67 21:03, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Its fine with me. I only moved them to the external links area from the main part of the article because at least they won't clutter the main article.  There are still many embedded links that I wish could be cleaned out but people are always adding new one regardless.--tess 21:12, 8 January 2007 (UTC)


 * The VLT might warrant an article if I ever get around to it. a kendall 08:21, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * BTW there's now a Eugene community wiki which actually welcomes sports links, recreation links, etc. etc.. Dunno if the community wiki deserves a link (or deserves it yet) but mentioning it here (thusly) might relieve some editing volume? Greenineugene 20:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

People's Republic of Eugene?
I find this one hard to beleieve. Unless someone can find some proof for it, I'm going to have to takeit off. Reticulum 13:31, 31 December 2006 (UTC)Reticulum


 * I googled it and there are several references to Eugene being named such by a conservative radio talk show host. It tends to be somewhat derisive from the right-wing folks.  Personally, I had not heard of this until from this article. - an eugenian --tess 00:53, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

homeless population
I dont have anything to cite this except personal experience(thats why i didnt add it) but Eugene seems to be a sort of transient mecca. I have heard of homeless people in the midwest(iowa) area talk of making the long trek, but again i dont have any facts to back it up. seems like a good place for them to be with all the hippies and activists. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.113.146.30 (talk) 16:15, January 3, 2007


 * There was an issue of Newsweek several years ago dealing with Cults in America...I think it was after the comet people all committed suicide. The mentioned Eugene was the home for a cult called "The Brotherhood" that lived as transients and ate from garbage cans. I tried googling it but came up with nothing. This might be part of what you are talking about. Also, there is an episode of Futurama referring to Eugene as the biggest group of hobos in the universe. WNW3 (talk) 19:48, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * (Note you're responding to a rather old anon post) A cult? When was this supposed to be happening? Seems like I would have heard something about it. They might be getting confused about a group of eco-anarchist freegans or a cohousing community or something. Though calling it the "brotherhood" would be unacceptably sexist. (I can reliably state that Newsweek isn't 100% accurate, having once associated with someone who was on the cover.) And I think the transient mecca story was cooked up as a scare tactic by someone or another. However, to get back on topic (i.e. how can we improve the Eugene article), we would obviously need reliable sources for any content stating that Eugene is any sort of mecca for transients, hippies, anarchists or any other sort of nonconformists, even if for some of those it's undeniably true. BTW, I just noticed that the section on anarchism is one of the best-referenced sections in the whole article... Katr67 (talk) 23:08, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Only thing I could find was this "Even today (1997), Eugene, Oregon, boasts the most secretive Old Testament sect in the US, run by a 58-year-old former marine, Jim Roberts, according to Peter Klebnikov in the April 7, 1997 Newsweek article, "Time of Trouble." Called "the brotherhood," followers are grouped into small nomadic cells that recruit college kids across the country who are "ready to die for him." " http://ftp.wi.net/~census/lesson33.html 198.6.46.11 (talk) 17:36, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Oh, here we go http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Brethren_(cult) 198.6.46.11 (talk) 17:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC)


 * More here http://www.religioustolerance.org/body_chr.htm though only the Newsweek article said anything about Eugene. The group is nomadic. 198.6.46.11 (talk) 17:46, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

Economics
The reference to the Organically Grown Company is self promotion and not a major economic player in the Eugene economy. I recommend deleting. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kcarson (talk • contribs) 15:33, 8 February 2007 (UTC).


 * I restored OGC to the article. I don't think simply mentioning it in the economy section is promotion any more than Bi-Mart, Monaco, etc. I did take out the bit about their sales volume--I agree that wasn't appropriate. Being the largest distributor of organic veggies in the NW is notable, IMO, and the fact it started as a co-op shows something of the DIY character of Eugene. If not a major player in league with the others (though $20 million isn't a drop in the bucket), perhaps it can be moved into a separate paragraph that mentions such start ups. Katr67 16:26, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * My impression was that it had quite a few bicycle industry companies from there. Co-Motion Cycles and Burley Design in particular.  I think Oregon Bicycle Racing Association is also based out of Eugene.  And a failry prominent road bike race called Eugene Celebration. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cacophony (talk • contribs) 08:15, 5 May 2007 (UTC).

OCF?
I am wondering why there is zero mention of the Oregon Country Fair. It has been happening for 35 years and is a huge contributor to the local culture as well as financial contributor to many NGOs. The OCF is large economic and socio-political force in the Eugene area as well as being a supporter of arts programs in local schools. It is a continuing focal point for alternative points of view and has served as a turning point for many lives. People from all over the WORLD come to Eugene every July to be a part of this wonderful gathering. MikeMartin, OCF Elder —Preceding unsigned comment added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)


 * It's in there: Eugene, Oregon. Fairtheewell. Katr67 17:35, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Skinner's Mudhole?
Isn't it true that Eugene used to be called "Skinner's Mudhole"? ...Or is that just a myth? If it is true, it should be included in this article--it's an interesting fact.Jedi Shadow 03:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I've heard it refered to as such since I was a wee Eugenian. I'm pretty sure it's true...I'm surprised it's not mentioned in the article, but now I see that the early history section is pretty thin. I'll see if I can find a reliable source for the info. It seems like they had to shore up South Eugene High's gym several years back because it has been slowly sinking into the mire... Katr67 20:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Airport
It should be included that the original Eugene Airport is now the site of Jefferson Middle School (which is soon to be renamed, so maybe don't mention that), around Polk Street and 24th. I don't have any concrete evidence for this, but that's what they said at the Air and Space Museum near the current airport.Jedi Shadow 03:32, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Eugene Parks
Introducing my new pet project about Eugene and Springfield Parks. EugeneAreaParks.com features all the best parks in the area with descriptions, interactive maps, lots of images and 360 degree panoramas. Be sure to bookmark. Future additions include commenting and adding your own content. Let me know what you think. eugeneareaparks.com —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.22.23.0 (talk) 20:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC).


 * Hi. Just so you know, this page isn't for a general discussion about Eugene or for soliciting feedback for your website. The talk page is for discussing ways to the improve the encyclopedia article about Eugene. There are articles on Eugene parks that certainly need content (not links!) added to them, if you'd like to contribute to Wikipedia that way. Thanks. Katr67 20:30, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Redlinks in notables list
I feel there should be a statute of limitations for allowing redlinks to stay in the notable people list. Many such lists request that the additions already have an article in Wikipedia as an indication of notabilty. This is another way of encouraging article creation. As far as the redlinks currently included, Jahfree-I does not seem to be notable at all, (Google search ) so I am removing his listing. According to the sources I found, Theodore Sturgeon died in Eugene, but lived in Springfield. Eugene is not Springfield, thus I don't see how the removal of his name is debatable. (I have already added his name to the Springfield list and added sources to his article about where he lived.) If there is evidence of his connection with Eugene besides dying there, it needs to be referenced in his article. Izzy Whetstine (Google search), though a cool guy and of some local notability, probably isn't notable enough for a Wikipedia article, though he may merit a short mention at the Merry Pranksters article. A bit part in Animal House isn't particularly notable either, and doesn't need mentioning in his short summary, so I am removing that part. I'll go ahead and wait a few months to see if the remaining redlinks resolve themselves, but I don't see why they should remain if they are going to remain red in perpetuity. Occasional weeding of such lists and holding them to the "already has a wiki article" standard discourages vanity additions and encourages the writing of articles. Thoughts? Katr67 21:57, 4 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree. I'm glad you clarified that whole Eugene/Springfield thing once and for all. =) a kendall 08:18, 30 May 2007 (UTC)


 * While I don't want to argue where Theodore Sturgeon lived or died, Eugene & Springfield are right next to each other, and many notable people at one time or another lived "around" Eugene and/or Springfield. How fine a distinction should this be?  One can argue that Ken Kesey hadn't lived in Eugene for quite a while before his death.  He actually lived in Pleasant Hill, which is a few more mintues than Springfield is to Eugene.tess (talk) 21:00, 5 December 2007 (UTC)


 * I actually don't advocate that we put more and more notable people here. Where will that end?  Is this a list of people born/lived/living/died in Eugene?  Perhaps we need to look at it differently, but I'm not sure which way or how.  But this section just doesn't sit right.tess (talk) 21:07, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Notable people section
So why are the athletes different from the citizens?
 * Good question. I can't see a reason to keep them separate, unless we keep everyone separate. Why not merge those sections, or perhaps create several other categories? Athletes, Artists, Politicians, and so forth? --GoodDamon 00:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Lead image
Could it be possible to change the frontepage's picture?

Come on, the first picture is desperatly to rural. Let's show a more civilizing image of Eugene.
 * Find a good picture and do it. Be bold. --GoodDamon 00:15, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Population
Eugene has the second largest metro population. Why does someone keep changing it to third? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)
 * Because the Eugene metro area is the third largest by population, according to the 2006 Oregon Population Report published by the College of Urban and Public Affairs at Portland State University and viewable at http://www.pdx.edu/media/p/r/prc_2006_Population_Report.pdf. If you'll look at the edit summaries in the article history, you'll see that this was cited when your change was reverted the first time. --Finngall talk  06:31, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * FYI, for those not familiar with the PRC, they act by authority of the state to determine the official population figures. Those numbers are then used by the state for a variety of items such as distributing state funds to cities such as tobacco and alcohol taxes that are shared with cities on a proportional basis. This is why we use these statistics. Aboutmovies 18:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

It is the third largest. And is there still a need to mention that Salem overtook Eugene in population? It's been three years. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)


 * Someone continues to change the metro population to second. It is not.  Read this:
 * http://www.pdx.edu/media/p/r/prc_2006_Population_Report.pdf Page 8 24.21.157.0 19:53, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Eugene IS the second largest city, with the third largest metro. As of 2007 The Register Guard publiched an article released stating so. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)


 * Yes, read the article and this is covered, as you are responding to 5 month old posts. In the meantime (since the last post on this topic) new pop figures have come out and the article was updated to reflect the change in status between the two cities, months ago. Aboutmovies (talk) 09:03, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Merge with Track Town, USA
Well, since no one is discussing this I guess I'll start. First off, I was surprised to see a Wiki article for a city nickname. Second, the Track Town USA page is bursting with boosteristic hyperbole. I'd vote for a major editing cleanup and an incorporation of any of the pertinent info into the Eugene article.--Fizbin 16:23, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually, someone already merged it, and the section desperately needs cleanup... Katr67 17:48, 13 October 2007 (UTC)


 * That's funny! Today was the first time I've been to the Eugene article, and the merge notice caught my attention. So I looked at the Track Town page, and then wrote the above comment, without actually looking at the Eugene page. Whoever did the merge did a hack job of it, including leaving the External Links section of the TT page in the middle of the Eugene page, and not creating a redirect for the original TT page. I have neither the time nor inclination to fix this at this time, but there is some major fixing that needs doing.--Fizbin 19:04, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

Another alternative is to summarize all the track stuff on this Eugene page, and put the details in Track Town USA. IMO, this city page shouldn't have too much emphasis on any one type of activity. tess (talk) 22:29, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

i believe that the track town USA page is worthwhile. I have seen it in newspapers. i vote that we keep track town USA as a separate page, but move any track related information from Eugene, Oregon to Track Town, USA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hornplayer2 (talk • contribs) 05:30, 11 July 2008 (UTC)

Geography
The Geography section is poorly written and in dire need of a rewrite. It contains little information regarding the geography of the area, and instead discusses Prefontaine, gardens and festivals. Ljmajer (talk) 23:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your suggestion. When you feel an article needs improvement, please feel free to make those changes. Wikipedia is a wiki, so anyone can edit almost any article by simply following the  link at the top. The Wikipedia community encourages you to be bold in updating pages. Don't worry too much about making honest mistakes — they're likely to be found and corrected quickly. If you're not sure how editing works, check out how to edit a page, or use the sandbox to try out your editing skills.  New contributors are always welcome. You don't even need to log in (although there are many reasons why you might want to).   Katr67 (talk) 21:52, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

GA
I've nominated this article for GA status. I feel it meets all the criteria, and is a pleasant, informative article. Discuss? BrickMcLargeHuge (talk) 06:46, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, that's not quite how GA works (no real discussion). A single GA reviewer will come along and make the call (though they can ask for a second opinion). But, as of the current version it will likely fail. You see all those "citation needed" tags? Or looking at the refences section the non-uniformity between references? Those two things alone will keep it from passing (criteria 2), and that's without even reading the article. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:29, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I concur that its not a Good Article yet. It especially needs attention in the Culture and Music sections.tess (talk) 20:55, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

Failed "good article" nomination
Per the quick-fail criteria of the GA process, any article that contains large numbers fact tags must be failed immediately, and does not require an in-depth review. Please remedy any issues brought up by such tags, and remove them before choosing to renominate. Additionally, it is very clear to me that even where there are no fact tags present, the article does not meet the GA criteria for inline citations. Please read the criteria carefully, as this is how the article will be judged in terms of referencing. If you feel this decision was in error, you may seek a reassessment. Thank you for your work so far, Van Tucky  talk 21:04, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

Latest population estimates (Dec 2007)
Heard it on KLCC this morning, and just read this - [] - Eugene is back at number 2 in Oregon in population estimates. Several other newpapers also has this same report. My question is, wouldn't it be better to rewrite that opening paragraph and not keep changing population numbers and rankings there? Suggestions (or a braver editor)? tess (talk) 19:17, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

I happened across the rather active edit discussion on whether Eugene is number 2 or number 3 in population. In the hopes placating both sides I have reworded the initial paragraph to indicate the Eugene is *officially* number 3, but more recent unofficial statistics indicate that it may again be number 2; it will be necessary to wait for the official stats before the claim can be made unequivically.

I have also done some minor wording cleanup here and there elsewhere in the article, and made it clear that the area had an official Post Office from early in 1850. This information is available on the www.usps.com search pages for post offices; if anyone knows how to get a a reliable reference link to this informaiton it would be appreciated. Loren.wilton (talk) 08:08, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

All current estimates state that the city population of Eugene has surpassed Salem, but none mention the metro area. I'm not sure if we are going to have to wait until the official 2007 Oregon Population Report to find out that data. I doubt that has surpassed Salem since according to 2006 the Salem MSA was 33,595 people larger than the Eugene-Springfield MSA. That would be quite a bit of growth in one year.

Here is the official estimate, but this is only for cities, not MSA: http://www.pdx.edu/media/p/r/prcCertifiedRelease_07_web_cities.pdf —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.21.157.0 (talk) 07:54, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Eugene in film section
Since my editing comments keep getting deleted for some reason not explained except that they are apparently "not needed", I'll revise them and put them here. The section ought to be put in chronological or alphabetical order or some other order, any order at all, or perhaps better yet, moved to List of fiction set in Oregon. Katr67 (talk) 23:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Media
Lane Community's College newspaper is not independent and is governed by a body organized by the school. Although the newspaper says it is free from censorship, an independent newspaper is classified as one that does not receive funding from the school, such as UO's Daily Emerald. http://www.lanecc.edu/stuser/stumedia.htm and http://www.lanecc.edu/cops/mediacom.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.223.59.135 (talk) 17:57, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Wikiproject Oregon
Where can one find the project page for Wikiproject Oregon? Querulously, GeorgeLouis (talk) 17:27, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If you click "show" on the box above: "This article is within the scope of multiple WikiProjects", you can find it there. If you want to discuss the warning comment in the Notable residents section, first see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Oregon/archive4 and feel free to post a new thread on the project talk page. Happy editing, Katr67 (talk) 21:46, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Notable athletes
Kindly point us to the discussion that resulted in consensus to a hidden addition to the Athletes section stating as follows: ''Only people who already have a Wikipedia article may appear here. This establishes notability. The biographical article must mention how they are associated with Eugene, whether born, raised, or residing. The fact of their association should have a reliable source cited, unless it is well-known alphabetical by last name please. All others will be deleted without further explanation.'' Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 23:11, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Note that it actually applies to the entire "notable" people section and not just athletes, and tries to incorporate the whole notability guidelines of Wikipedia. Otherwise we might as well let every person who has ever lived there be listed, and that might be a bit long. Thus the need for a screening mechanism. Aboutmovies (talk) 23:23, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for linking to that archives page. What is the header the discussion appears under? Sincerely, GeorgeLouis (talk) 23:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)
 * "Oregon cities proposal" about the third topic from the bottom. Aboutmovies (talk) 23:36, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Again, thanks. I didn't see very many comments there, so I am not sure that the proper word is consensus; I took the liberty of softening the note placed under Notable People because it seemed a bit too harsh. Well, it seemed harsh to me. Yours, GeorgeLouis (talk) 01:52, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * Maybe its "harsh", but moving them into one place means people who're editing only the Athletes or the Others section won't see the advice. Please put them back. --Tesscass (talk) 01:55, 21 April 2008 (UTC)


 * BTW, you don't seem to be seeking any consensus before making these edits either. --Tesscass (talk) 01:56, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

FYI, I did already link to the discussion, complete with topic header, in the section just above this one... Katr67 (talk) 07:55, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Rose McGowan?
In the notable people from Eugene, McGowan is listed but her Wiki entry doesn't state anything about Eugene. Anyone know the story on this? 198.6.46.11 (talk) 17:29, 2 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Alright then, removed 198.6.46.11 (talk) 18:47, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Anarchism
"Anarchist activity in Eugene has declined since September 11, 2001"

Is this not implicit in saying that anarchists are terrorists? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.148.14.44 (talk) 19:21, 11 November 2008 (UTC)