Talk:European Broadcasting Union/Archive 1

Transnistria
I removed Transnistria as a potential EBU member, as it lacks international recognition and its seperatiste dictatorship government (see article) probably is occupied with other things than applying for EBU membership. -- 790 19:30, 23 May 2005 (UTC)


 * Isn't the EBU a Broadcasting Union rather than a union of countries? The article treats the countries as members of the EBU, shouldn't that be the broadcasting organizations? I see no logic e.g. behind what's written about RTS and RTCG (Serbia & Montenegro) .. both are already full members, and the country eventually splitting up wouldn't change anything in that matter. -- Ben NL, +/- 01:45 January 7 2006 (UTC)

Wasn't "It's a Knockout" (Jeux Sans Frontieres) the biggest Eurovision show before it ended several years ago? --PkerUNO 05:31, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

Removed section
I removed the following section as it is not really directly related to EBU. I leave it here in case discussions or new article organization provide an adequate place for this:

Another well-known production is Wetten, dass..?, a entertainment show made by ZDF, ORF and SF-DRS. Participating countries are Germany, Austria, Switzerland and the German-speaking Italian province of South Tyrol. "Wetten, dass..?" is Europe's most popular family entertainment for almost 30 years and is hosted by Thomas Gottschalk. The show has been broadcast from Aspendos (amphitheater), Paris (EuroDisney), Majorca and Xanten (Germany) and several other German, Austrian and Swiss cities. Former host, Frank Elstner, had the chance to broadcast with John Paul II by recorded video link, but Elstner refused. Internationally there are other versions from China, Russia and Turkey.

Liechtenstein in Eurovision
It is true that Liechtenstein tried to enter the Eurovision Song Contest once, but it was in 1976 - not 1969. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tobsonhelsinki (talk • contribs) 17:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC).
 * They actually tried twice, 1969 and 1976. (Pr3st0n (talk) 20:42, 24 August 2009 (UTC))

Future & Potential Active EBU Members
Do we really need the section European Broadcasting Union? Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Furthermore, calling Liechtenstein and Kazakhstan "future or potential active EBU members" is a bit of a stretch: Liechtenstein is not eligible because it does not have a national broadcaster, and Kazakhstani broadcasters "have not expressed desire to join the EBU so far." A ecis Brievenbus 23:05, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Turkey
This may be a volatile issue, but why is Turkey listed as a non-European EU member? A ecis Brievenbus 23:14, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

I cant Understend,Turkey is more European Than Armenia,Rusia and Georgia,, Turkey Must be listed under European members ,still in There But some nationalist tryin to change,,, AegeanFighter

Since when are the caucasian countries european?

I made some changes: the caucasian countries Armenia, Azerbaijan and Georgia are now listed under Non-European members. There is absolutly no link between these countries and Europe, while some percent of Turkeys land are on the european continent, so they can not be considered as Non-European.

Georgia and Arminia are racialy, culturly and religously part of European, unlkike Turkik/Islamic Azerbijan.--86.29.244.33 (talk) 17:26, 23 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Heck, even Japan is more European than Turkey. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.87.39 (talk) 04:27, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * I think people are getting confused between the definitions of "Europe" and "European Broadcasting Area". Europe is the continent, and yes some countries listed in this article are not part of "Europe" the continent.  However, this article is about the "European Broadcasting Area" to which the boundaries are far greater than those of the continent of Europe.  Any nation that is situated within the broadcasting area is eligible to become a member of the EBU, whether they are part of the European continent or not.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  13:25, 6 February 2012 (UTC)


 * This is politics, culture and religion as arguments for what is being discussed here. Not the place for EBU. EBU considers all members equal, and does not limit itself to Europe or the EU. Please take your political and nationalistic ideas someplace else (and I would also like to tell the person using "racialy" (sic) as an argument to take his/her racism to the grave, and actually read modern Biology texts to see that the people he is separating on race are genetically the closest to each other!). Enozkan (talk) 20:04, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
 * this topic started in 2007, and ended in 2012. Not sure why you brought it back from the dead over 4 years later.  Wes Mouse  &#10002;  21:00, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Cyprus
Why is Cyprus in the Non-European section? It has been in the EU scince 2004! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petcalledros (talk • contribs) 18:38, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Australia
And why is Australia out of the list?SBS is an assiciate member.They show Eurovision Song Contest every year. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.161.76.219 (talk) 10:18, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Umm, is it because they are not a member? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.13.192.65 (talk) 22:26, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

They are accosiate members: —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.161.76.219 (talk) 06:41, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Kosovo as a potential future member
This is debatable: "Now that Kosovo is independent, it can become an EBU member." I removed an unsourced sentence to that effect but it was re-instated by User:Mumi.mumi. My point when removing still stands: when a pretty significant number of member countries don't recognise it, we can't really act as if they're well on their way to membership. At best it's slightly naive speculation, at worst it's original research. I'm removing it again.  Chwe ch  15:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned below to another user about Kosovo, they don't necessarily have to be a member of the UN council, for them to obtain EBU membership. There is nothing in the EBU's application process rules that says a nation MUST be a member of the UN council as an independent state.  So Kosovo could if they wish, submit an application for EBU membership, as long as they fulfil the criteria set by the EBU first. (Pr3st0n (talk) 23:43, 26 August 2009 (UTC))

Yugoslavia
Yugoslavia doesn't exist... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.203.197.107 (talk) 22:52, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
 * But it did before the Yugoslavian war in the early 1990's. So Yugoslavia should still be shown in the EBU section as a past member. (Pr3st0n (talk) 23:40, 26 August 2009 (UTC))

Cleanup
I have decided to cleanup this article by moving three "tags" to this discussion page.

Please feel free to improve the article according to the messages above! --Kildor (talk) 21:44, 30 November 2008 (UTC)

Luxembourg
According to the last line of this (eurovision.tv): "Luxembourg is a slightly different story, as their TV-station is not an EBU Member anymore". Does anyone have any thoughts about this. -- [[ axg|undefinedSpecial:Contributions/AxGtalk  |undefined]] 12:20, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Map
The current map suggests Yugoslavia entered in the 1960s. This is in fact false, as Yugoslavia is a founding member; which is clearly stated on their site: " Yugoslav Radio Television (JRT), a founder member of the EBU in 1950." Source: http://www.ebu.ch/en/union/news/archives/2001/press_2601.php --64.46.2.216 (talk) 22:22, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The map has many factual errors. Also, the projection used just screams ‘I hate maps!’ at the viewer. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.139.87.39 (talk) 04:24, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Kosovo now confirmed membership?
I've noticed that someone has added in the "potential active membership" table that Kosovo has now been granted active status. Could whoever wrote this please supply a source to back-up their comment. I have checked the EBU website, and Kosovo have not been granted active membership as of August 24, 2009; and the EBU update their website on a daily basis. In the meantime, I have reverted this context about Kosovo, back to its original status. (Pr3st0n (talk) 20:48, 24 August 2009 (UTC))

I think Kosovo needs to be a fully UN member to join EBU? Rave92 (talk) 21:16, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's more complex than that Rave92  they have to achieve certain goals/targets, which are set by the EBU, for them to be permitted active membership.  If you check on the EBU  website, the PDF file gives details on how full active membership is determined, and granted. (Pr3st0n (talk) 23:01, 25 August 2009 (UTC))

Yeah I know, but the first step is to be a member of UN, right? EBU Membership Conditions The conditions for active membership of the EBU are laid down in Article 3§3 of the Union's Statutes, which reads as follows: "Active membership of the EBU is open to broadcasting organizations or groups of such organizations from: a member country of the International Telecommunication Union (ITU) situated in the European Broadcasting Area as defined by the Radio Regulations annexed to the International Telecommunication Convention, or a member country of the Council of Europe which is situated outside the European Broadcasting Area which provide in that country, with the authorization of the competent authorities, a broadcasting service of national character and importance, and which furthermore prove that they fulfil all the conditions set out below: (a) virtually all of the national radio and/or television households are in a position and technically equipped to receive the entirety of their major radio and/or television programme service with satisfactory technical quality; (b) they are under an obligation to, and actually do, provide varied and balanced programming for all sections of the population, including programmes catering for special/minority interests of various sections of the public, irrespective of the ratio of programme cost to audience; (c) they actually produce and/or commission at their own cost and under their own editorial control a substantial proportion of the programmes broadcast; (d) they are not linked to a sports rights agency which engages in the acquisition of European television rights in competition with the EBU." Details regarding the membership criteria are laid down in a binding Regulation under Article 3§4 of the Statutes. Organizations which do not fulfil the membership conditions have the possibility of acquiring contractual access to sports events covered by Eurovision (television sublicensing rules). Similarly, where a Eurovision rights agreement also covers radio rights, non-Members may request contractual access in order to make radio reports (radio sublicensing rules). Admission procedure Applicants must prove that they meet all the membership criteria, by submitting a point-by-point application on a form which is available (in English or French) from the EBU Legal and Public Affairs Department. There are two membership cycles per year, the deadlines for complete applications being 31 January and 31 July. The applications are then processed and decided upon by the appropriate EBU bodies. Membership fee and entrance fee Active Members of the EBU pay an annual membership fee which is calculated on the basis of their operating expenditure. New active Members are required to pay a one-off entrance fee. It takes account of the applicant's financial capacities and the value which EBU membership represents for it, but is normally the equivalent of three times the applicant's first annual membership fee. (Pr3st0n (talk) 21:14, 26 August 2009 (UTC))
 * Being a member of the UN isn't necessary for any nation to become a member of the EBU. If you read their rules for the EBU membership application process, there is nothing in the rules and regulations that state a nation must also to be a member of the UN.  My cousin also works for the EBU in Geneva, and he has clarified this too.  So within reason, Kosovo could submit an application for EBU membership if they wish.

Yeah, ok. Rave92 (talk) 21:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
 * There should be no "potential" section for the same reason why we don't have a maybe section for the Eurovision page. This is an encyclopedia, we don't guess or anticipate events, we document what has happened. Talk about a countries wanting to join but taking no steps to do so do not belong on this page as well as countries who have said nothing about joining the EBU and just said that they would like to participate in Eurovision. This article is horribly lopsided and makes it seem like the sole purpose of the EBU is a song contest! Grk1011/Stephen (talk) 00:16, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Giving it the heading "potential" maybe the wrong wording. The countries that are in the table have shown interest in joining the EBU, and all of which can be found throughout the internet (if sourcing is to be added to them).  However, some of the countries listed have yet to complete all the criteria required by the EBU for a successful membership application to be processed.  Perhaps renaming this section would be a reasonable idea.  "Potential" does sound like we're guessing, yet as I mentioned some of the countries have got applications for membership pending.  How about naming this section in question "EBU Pending Applications"? (Pr3st0n (talk) 04:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC))
 * Hi folks, I stumbled across a few articles on the EBU website which you might find interesting, but also adds a very bizarre twist to the Kosovo-EBU Membership debate. Its seems that it was the EBU who created RTK in the first place, and launched it from the Kosovan capital, Pristina, on September 19, 1999.  Does this mean that RTK does in fact have EBU membership even though it doesn't show in the list of EBU members on their website?  I can't understand why the EBU would go to some lengths to create a national broadcaster and yet not have it as an EBU member.  Unless it has automatic EBU membership status due to this factor.  Here's the links to the articles I found on the EBU website about EBU's involvement with RTK and how they own it. .  Would love to see what others make of this, and if we should actually have Kosovo down as an EBU member now. (Pr3st0n (talk) 01:47, 30 August 2009 (UTC))

We can't add any country on the list until someone haves a proof that it is a full member of EBU. Rave92 (talk) 06:06, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
 * This was the point I was trying to make. On looking upon the list of Active Members on the EBU website, Kosovo doesn't appear.  However, in their news articles (also on the EBU website) there are many news threads which point out that RTK was in fact created by the EBU in 1999.  Thus in hindsight would make it an EBU member in some way or another.  Its a weird situation, as the EBU do strongly stress that to be a active member of the EBU they need to apply for membership.  Yet seeing as RTK was made by the EBU, and is owned by the EBU, wouldn't that therefore mean that RTK is a member.  The way the articles are worded does make it look that way.  Was just wondering if others have been aware or perhaps even read these articles in the past on the EBU website.  (Pr3st0n (talk) 02:01, 31 August 2009 (UTC))

Copyright problem removed
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RCTV was NOT closed and is still an EBU Associate Member
It's been now 3 years since RCTV's license was revoked and people continue to claim it was a closure but I ask you how come a channel that was closed continues to broadcast? You can find live stream, schedule and programs on its official website. And also, you can see that is still listed as an Associate Member on the EBU website here so please stop provoking. Tony0106 (talk) 22:23, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Flag
Surely the EU flag predated the EU flag and is not based on it, the EBU being nothing to do with the EU as far as I was aware. --jmb (talk) 19:02, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Conflict with Europe article
Several countries listed as "European" members in the article are not listed as being in Europe in the Europe article. Does this need cleaning up? Harry the Dog WOOF  07:41, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Azerbaijan, for example, shouldn't and cannot be listed as a European state. While it is technically a transcontinental state, it is in fact geographically in Asia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SchumiChamp (talk • contribs) 10:48, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Members list and dates
There have been some recent unexplained changes to the date column of the members lists. There is no citation for any of this information so I am unable to verify whether the changes are legit or vandalism. I assume is the definitive source but this does not provide dates. All of this brings up a larger question: Do we really want to include complete member lists in the article? The EBU updates their published member list bi-monthly. Keeping the article up-to-date would seem to be a significant burden. --Kvng (talk) 13:34, 12 August 2011 (UTC)

Criticisms and controversy
See also Eurovision Song Contest 2012.

User:CT Cooper in my opinion the critics deserve place: ''According to Max Tucker Amnesty International despite publicly committing to support free expression in Azerbaijan, the EBU has maintained a deathly silence on repeated violations of that right on 22/05/2012 in respect to the Eurovision Song Contest 2012. AI 22.5.2012 EBU declined to show the Human Rights Watch video at the workshop about the media rights at Azerbaijan. Journalists and singers alarmed at the Azerbaijan government’s crackdown on free expression. The EBU was reluctant to speak out publicly against it. HRW 3.5.2012 ''

WP has significant data. EBU named itself as not human rights expert. Thus, WP is needed to collect relevant data. EBU has reason to follow the recommendations of Amnesty and HRW both being third party sources independent from oil industry wins. In my opinion EBU acted in conflict with its rules. I can give my arguments both here and in Eurovision_Song_Contest_2012, if needed. This has wide interest since equal conflicts arise in art and sports often. E.g. in Helsingin Sanomat March 2012 ”Finnish expert group 71 % of the panelists were against the ice hockey matches in Minsk in 2014. Professor Teivo Teivainen recommended similar approach to all human right conflicts including China and USA. (HS 30.3.2012 C2) Watti Renew (talk) 14:54, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * The EBU competition rules deny politics. Thus, is human rights politics? Most EBU members have ratified Universal Declaration of Human Rights and are in charge to fulfill, promote and demand it from other nations and everybody involved. This can be seen as above the party politics regardless the political preferences from right to left. It concern not only nations but also organizations and individuals. With this definition the demand of human rights would not be against the rules of EBU but rather it would be its basic demand from all of its member states and participants in the individual competitions. Is ignoring human rights violations politics? In my opinion it can be it. Ignoring human rights violations may also give economical benefits which could be corruption. If seen so, human rights violations can not be allowed by the rules of EBU. Thus, the human rights violations would be by the EBU rules the legitimate reason to cancel competition in a country or individual participation in case of serious concern of human rights violations. The expert recommendations give neutrality in the decision.

Watti Renew (talk) 14:59, 8 June 2012 (UTC)


 * But I think you are missing the main point here. The human rights issues are in relation to the 2012 contest, and have now been included on that article.  They have nothing whatsoever, to do with the EBU article, hence why they haven't (and shouldn't) be included on here.  An article should only include details relevant to the article's subject.  This article isn't the subject of human rights, ESC 2012 is.   Wesley  ☀  Mouse  19:00, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Map
Request that the map http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:EBU_Member.svg is updated with associate members in a different colour, say Green. WatcherZero (talk) 20:35, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * ✅, map needed updating anyway, to include South Sudan. --  [[ axg ◉  talk   ]] 21:16, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

ERT
I have made some changes about the Greek Broadcaster ERT,which as of 11th June 2013 has stopped transmitting.As a new editor,I don't know yet how to provide sources in the actual article, but below there are some sources I have found in Greek http://www.skai.gr/news/greece/article/234792/louketo-kai-epanekkinisi-gia-tin-ert/ http://www.naftemporiki.gr/story/664383 http://www.skai.gr/mobile/article?aid=234817 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aggelakiss00 (talk • contribs) 23:22, 11 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Until the EBU have made an announcement regarding membership, we shouldn't really remove ERT off the active members list. Otherwise we would be in breach of WP:NOR.   Wesley ♦ Mouse  02:12, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Update - The EBU are urging the Greek government to reverse their decision as reported on EBU.ch. I think we need to be responsible and watch closely as events unfold before acting irrational and removing Greece off ANY list, until we know 110% certain that the EBU have removed ERT off their active members list.  Try and avoid media propaganda by prematurely guessing what could or could not be happening.   Wesley ♦ Mouse  02:19, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

I have added a new sub-section "Greek state broadcaster controversy of 2013" under Technical Activities, primarily to document (with sources) the technical activities that the EBU has been performing to maintain news gathering and video feeds in Greece for EBU members. Notably, the EBU has set up a temporary news broadcasting centre near to the ERT Athens HQ, as documented in the Grauniad newspaper. If this section veers considerably away from the technical activities and towards the EBU's lobbying of the Greek government, then this section will need to be re-homed outside the Technical Activities section. Andrew Oakley (talk) 13:22, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Nice work Andrew. Much appreciated.   Wesley ♦ Mouse  14:01, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Reverted an edit by who removed ERT and added NERIT with the tag: "Not confirmed yet." This is akin to adding 1FLTV and Liechtenstein. The EBU is supporting ERT in this, and pushing the Greek government to reverse its plans. --   [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 17:05, 13 June 2013 (UTC)