Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2011/Archive 2

Returning artists
Someone removed this, but it is a fact that Gunar Ólason, one of Sigurjón's Friends, was half of Two Tricky who represented Iceland in 2001, so I have no idea why he shouldn't be listed with the others. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.36.98.89 (talk) 19:59, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm not too sure about this, on the Two Tricky (which I added from the Dutch Wiki) and Diggaloo.net article says "Gunar Ólafsson", the one from Sigurjón's Friends lists as does the EBU and RÚV articles say "Gunar Ólason". --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 12:53, 16 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't it be mentioned in the returning artists section that Dana International won in 1998?--130.226.70.114 (talk) 21:27, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Maybe if and Lena as the representative of Germany remove? Do not engage in futile actions!--analitic114 (talk) 19:22, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Spanish translation
I think the correct translation for the Spanish entry "Que me quiten lo bailao" should be "They can't take [away] the things I've lived/done" OR "They can't take away what I've lived/done". Yes "They can't take away what I've danced" is the correct transliteration but it doesn't make much sense specially in English. When you say "Lo Bailao" in Spain, and also here in Venezuela, refers to the (good) things you have lived. And yes "Bailao" actually means "Danced". But like I said it makes absolutely no sense in English. Discuss. Tony0106 (talk) 23:02, 19 February 2011 (UTC)


 * "Que me quiten..." would be "let them take..." I haven't heard the lyrics to the song, and while it may say "they can't..." in the lyrics, it doesn't in the title. I've changed it accordingly - Estoy Aquí (talk) 23:29, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

what language will cyprus sing in
i am a bit confused after reading an article on the website of nrk regarding the participants that said that they would sing in english. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 15:38, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

according to eurovision.tv there is only 39 countries participating
i find that strange though. anybody know what happened to the other 4. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 21:11, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * What do you mean only 39, where does it say that? --MSalmon (talk) 21:19, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * the voting part of the website.
 * I think it means that 39 countries can vote in the Final (as only 25 are in it), so I don't know about the other 4 --MSalmon (talk) 21:41, 26 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It must be a typo or outdated information. The full list of participating countries this year is on the about page here: Greekboy (talk) 21:58, 26 February 2011 (UTC)

somebody have removed english from slovakia on the list
it should perhaps be added back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 09:52, 27 February 2011 (UTC)


 * No it should not. The source listed for Slovakia does not specify in which language will be sung. A 20-seconds snippet is insignificant. It might contains phrases or verses in other languages. I don't know why people insist to fill the language bracket when they haven't even hear the song. I know the song is must likely to be in English but we never know. Tony0106 (talk) 16:23, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Logo
The current logo on the article, is the generic Eurovision logo with the German flag, rather than the stylised heart and ESC Germany logo, used by the ESC website. (as well as possibly on posters, TV etc) This is fine, but since the unified logo came in, we've also had different features as well, like 2006's squiggly thing, 2007's flower, finger, 2008's paint musical note, 2009's bird, 2010's bubbles etc. most featuring on images on here, so should we change these to the generic logo, or keep the logos along with the brand features that also appear on them? --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 18:54, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * IMO, all old logos should be replaced if possible because they also contain the theme which isnt actually a part of the logo. Page 4 of this PDF clears mentions what the logo is supposed to be. --JovianEye (talk) 19:09, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Consensus on Commons has established that simple logos for Eurovision i.e. ones that contain just a simple heart, flag, and text, are too simple for copyright and can be placed on Commons, see commons:Commons:Deletion requests/File:Eurovision Song Contest 2011 logo.svg. However this does not apply for the more complex versions. If the more complex versions are going to replaced with simple ones, then it will need to be done with a clear consensus, as once removed the former will be deleted as fair use, and it will take some effort getting them back again. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 17:57, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Doubts about Hungarian entry
Previous versions of the article stated the Hungarian entry would be disclosed until March, not February 28. The reference page is an Argentinian website, and the Lily Sullos appearing there is an astrologyst. There are songs for download, includin "Alien Romance", but they were recorded and released by 2008, so they can't possibly be an entry for this year. Moreover, neither Magyar TV, nor Eurovision.tv, nor the article about the Hungarian national selection mention an artist being chosen, and a search on Google with "Lily Sullos" and "Alien romance" renders the reference website as the only result. Is something wrong with this entry? Or am I missing something? Edited to make it easier to read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.217.202.90 (talk) 03:53, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

I agree, it should be removed —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.232.64.201 (talk) 12:58, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Song of Israel
The song of Israel can not be in Hebrew, because there are two songs in English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.83.217.240 (talk) 10:33, 5 March 2011 (UTC)

Ukraine - Angels
I know YouTube is not a reliable source but since I had no other way to prove that the song "Angels" is in Ukrainian and NOT in English. You can watch the video here. If there's going to be another version of the song in English it should be listed when its official. For now the Ukrainian entry is "Angels" by Mika Newton sung in their national language. Tony0106 (talk) 00:28, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Sorry but i don't agree: You can see here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDkG5msEIM0&feature=related (and it is from choose of song of Ukraine) and here: http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/year/participant-profile/?song=26193 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.83.217.240 (talk) 10:12, 8 March 2011 (UTC)

Included in this discussion! If so, then language should be put Russian - version is a purely Russian. Once you forget that the Russian and Ukrainian artists can do a preview video in Russian (for Ukraine and possibly Ukrainian) as well as English. But the performance at the selection was in English. And the ESC was not about performance in Russian (although you should in Ukrainian), why put the Ukrainian?--analitic114 (talk) 21:06, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok I'd have to say I made a mistake. I though the video was the final version to be sent to the ESC. But it seems it isn't. We still don't know which version of "Angels" will be sent. I mean she performed in Ukrainian in the semi-final and then in English at the final and then the news says she will sing "Angels" with better arrangement. So I think then NO LANGUAGE SHOULD BE LISTED. Until we receive the final version. Tony0106 (talk) 03:14, 9 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the semi-finals. Hardly in the final, she will change the language.--analitic114 (talk) 11:36, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

Ukraine's song, according to their page on the official eurovision.tv is called Angel, not Angels, so shouldn't it be changed here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.97.60.37 (talk) 14:51, 17 March 2011 (UTC)

israeli song is...
DING DONG by Dana Interneshonal. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.111.125.230 (talk) 21:39, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Dana Internetional was also the 2008 songwriter!! why isn`t it writen? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.64.128.110 (talk) 21:51, 8 March 2011 (UTC)


 * Even though she was the writer for the 2008 entry; it doesn't warrant addition into the "returning artists" table; as she never performed the song outright (for which is the sole purpose of this table). 80.192.226.205 (talk) 19:10, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Logo
Why is the logo the simple one as it is currently? Shouldn't it include the branding elements as it does in the articles for previous years? 77.98.17.111 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:40, 11 March 2011 (UTC).

Azerbaijan
Dear ESC 2010 and others! Why as authoritative sources you put these links too weird? I am surprised by your edit! The official website of TV no confirmation of this information, ESC is also not confirmed, but you stubbornly sticks exactly that! Why should you trust this source! We in Russia are many such sources, which every five minutes for the speaker of Russia put forward a new representative!--analitic114 (talk) 12:05, 13 March 2011 (UTC)


 * ESCToday have now confirmed the participants and songs for all 43 nations ; yet this Wiki-article has some details missing. Isn't it about time to update the tables with full details (as shown in the ESCToday article?  80.192.226.205 (talk) 19:08, 13 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Carefully read the source - next to the song of Azerbaijan is to specify the information--analitic114 (talk) 19:13, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Running Order
Running order takes place on 15 March not 14 March. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.7.6.126 (talk) 20:33, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Changed it to 15 March--MSalmon (talk) 20:43, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

Thank you --92.7.6.126 (talk) 02:06, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * i believe that it took place on the 14. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk • contribs)
 * Nope, it took place on the 15th per this Eurovision news article. --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 12:40, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Televoting Results
Does any one know the order that each country will give their voting results for the Final? --MSalmon (talk) 13:28, 15 March 2011 (UTC)
 * No, the draw usually takes place in April, but last year was an exception (the voting draw results were shown right after the ones for the running order draw). So we have to wait longer this year. — /an.dre.jiˈʃor//tɔːk/ 20:09, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

regarding the stage
information on the stage have been revealed on eurovision.tv therefore it should be added to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 13:47, 15 March 2011 (UTC) here is what i read on eurovision.tv(though i dont remember exactly how it was written.): the stage will have a backscreen but will appearanly be small. there will also be a LED wall somewhere and and satellite in front of the stage. the backscreen will be 60 meters wide and 18 meters tall.

Article referencing
One likely positive consequence of the editnotice, is that this article is well referenced, which is great. However, there are some cases in which references have been added in a way which means they do not work at all when the article is viewed. A perennial example is users using the template and only giving the URL (web address), which means the template doesn't work when the article is veiewed, as both the |url= and |title= fields need to be specified for it to work. It doesn't look good for Wikipedia to have articles, particularly ones linked from the Main Page, as the Eurovision one is every year, with some completely non-functioning references. I have hence fixed these broken references and added a note to the editnotice about the common error on using cite web. I could have checked all the references and made them perfect, though from previous experience that tends to take hours on an article this size, and such an effort is probably best saved until after the contest when things have calmed down a little. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 21:36, 15 March 2011 (UTC)

the jury
What is known about the jury? Who decides how? Who belongs to the jury? How are the points added to the televotes?--78.48.48.51 (talk) 21:31, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

Are artist and song sources really necessary now?
I think the soruces for each country's artist and song can be remowed, now when the EBU have said that they will compete. ESCToday had a soruce with a list of all countries artists and songs, which can be added instead of having old sources for each of them. Here is the source:. Last year this was happened, after all countries had chosen song and artist the old sources were remowed and only language sorces were still in the article. I think that is a good idea for 2011 as well. /Hollac16 (talk) 15:22, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Alexey Vorobyov
Alexey Vorobyov will be performing his song under the stage name, Alex Sparrow. Is it necessary to change this? Thanks in advance. --92.7.6.126 (talk) 17:57, 22 March 2011 (UTC)

Song translation necessary?
On the Swedish Wikipedia out there are now a discussion if the song titles should be translated from the original language and/or English into Swedish. Therefore I ask here what you which are writing on the English article about ESC what you think about it. Do you think it is necessary that, in this article, directly translate a song titles name from the original languages ​​into English, although there may not be an accurate official translation? There are several users in the Swedish article argues that you must have a poetic sense to offer the most accurate translation and not just directly translate through Google Translate or a another translate maschine. So - what is your opinion? /Hollac16 (talk) 16:33, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

Song of Albania
I just see the lyrics of Albania, in the official website of the Eurovision, and I don't see, not even one sentence in Albanian. I think you should take.

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/year/participant-profile/?song=26083 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.83.228.17 (talk) 17:34, 26 March 2011 (UTC)


 * The lyrics are incomplete. Weird for an official source. — /an.dre.jiˈʃor//tɔːk/ 21:15, 26 March 2011 (UTC)

germany will spend 12 million euros
though it could change at a later date. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 12:27, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Where did you get the figure from? As it needs to be sourced, to add it to the article. --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 12:38, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * i didnt get it online. therefore some other person have to find a source.

the title of the norwegian song might have to be changed due to a lawsuit.
a norwegian song writer wrote a song named haba haba long ago. though the issue is entirely within norway. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 00:23, 1 April 2011 (UTC)
 * it turned out that it was an april`s fools joke.

Slovak entry
The fact, that there was no Slovak contest this year and the representing song of Slovakia was chosen by a jury should be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.40.81.166 (talk) 14:03, 26 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Not here, but every country has their own yearly page. See: Slovakia in the Eurovision Song Contest 2011. --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 14:55, 26 April 2011 (UTC)

spain broadcast
tve will broadcast,as always does, the semifinals and final show live on TVE internacional too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.84.90.39 (talk) 07:25, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

Broadcasters of the Eurovision Song Contest: Azerbaijan + Turkey+Russia
Azerbaijan: ITV{Ictimal Televizyasi) Turkey: Finals will be at TRT-1 and TRT-Int(international channel)...not sure about semi-final, will inform as soon it will be announced. TRT has many channels, so can be at any of them. Russia: Again, finals at Channel 1. Cant say for certain if semis will be there, but I assume so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJSurvivor-1907 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 2 May 2011 (UTC)

Broadcast in the UK
In the United Kingdom, BBC Radio 2 will also be broadcasting the final —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.13.20.203 (talk) 18:13, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅, thanks. --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 19:35, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Greek tv
In Greece,the national broadcaster NET would broadcast both semi-finals and final

http://tvradio.ert.gr/search.asp 22:00 http://tvradio.ert.gr/search.asp 22:00 and the final at 22:00 I saw it on TELETEXT but i have no source

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.12.156.37 (talk) 21:06, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Spokesperson
Safura is spokeperson from Azerbaijan and Odetta Moro-Figurska from Poland —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.219.205.127 (talk)


 * Please provide a source for these claims, and then they can be added to the article. By the way, you were right the first time on the spelling - spokesperson is correct (plural: spokespersons). CT Cooper · &#32;talk 15:16, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Turkish broadcasting
Hey, just to update on my previous posts.

Eurovision Song Contest 2011 will be shown at TRT-1. Both of semi-finals will be broadcasted also at TRT-1. All broadcasts are live.

Simultaneously broadcasting will be done at TRT-HD, available at Digiturk and D-Smart.

Also live Eurovision will be broadcast at TRT affiliate channel TRT-Avaz. TRT-Avaz is a channel which focuses at culture and attempts to bring together all of the Turkic nations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJSurvivor-1907 (talk • contribs) 16:32, 5 May 2011 (UTC)

Preceding unsigned comment added by DJSurvivor-1907 (talk • contribs) 18:27, 5 May 2011 (CET) —Preceding unsigned comment added by DJSurvivor-1907 (talk • contribs)

Broadcasting & Commentary in Poland
The 1st semi-final & final will be broadcast live on TVP1, TVP Polonia and TVP HD. The 2nd semi-final will be broadcast highlights on TVP1. Artur Orzech will comment this Eurovision.--188.47.93.67 (talk) 12:02, 6 May 2011 (UTC)


 * We can't add anything about broadcasting, spokesperons or commentators without a good reference!! --Redpower94 (talk) 12:28, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Here come good references from TVP website. Schedule for Tuesday http://www.tvp.pl/program-telewizyjny?offset=1&ch1=155691&ch2=1729&ch3=1773 The 1st semi-final on TVP1, TVP HD and TVP Polonia. Schedule for Wednesday http://www.tvp.pl/program-telewizyjny?offset=2&ch1=155691&ch2=1729&ch3=1773 Highlights at 15.15 on TVP1. Schedule for Saturday http://www.tvp.pl/program-telewizyjny?offset=5&ch1=155691&ch2=1729&ch3=1773 The final on TVP1, TVP HD and TVP Polonia. Beware as these links will expire tomorrow. Just change date on website. --Pataczek (talk) 19:42, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Commentary in Romania
Liana Stanciu & Bogdan Pavlică —Preceding unsigned comment added by Luc.matei (talk • contribs) 22:45, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

The final voting order
Anyone knows when NDR/EBU will realise the voting order in the final? It is extremely surprising that they have not revealed it yet. /Hollac16 (talk) 19:41, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

The running order for the final will be released following first semi-final with its finalists and then rest 10 spots will be released after second semi-final. To my knowledge(plz, change info if I am wrong)the spots will be given from total points of performance which been collected during the semi-final joining of juries and televoting votes. Since those results and names of singers who will qualify to final could not be find out before semis, the results are not released. Same procedure has been done last year and previous year.

Preceding unsigned comment added by DJSurvivor-1907, 18:40, 9th May (CET)
 * According to the official website the order has changed for this year and has not been released yet--MSalmon (talk) 10:10, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Adding broadcasting details
I have added the brodcast details for Switzerland and Austria. I have no idea how to reference them, for the moment they are there, better than nothing and might help someone like others helped me when trying to find where I could see the show. I have a paper program for these, but can find links for each. But how do you create a reference? Dollvalley (talk) 18:56, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Semi finals score
When will the scores of the semi-finals would be available?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.4.176.195 (talk) 02:23, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably right after the final (saturday). They don't officially announce it before then. :) - Jetro (talk) 07:29, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

russia isnt singing only in english
though what language they start in is a mystery to me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 12:29, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Checked lyrics for Russian songs. All of it is in English. I quess, accent might had confused you)--DJSurvivor-1907 (talk) 16:50, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The Russian song at the start was definitely not in English in the first Semi. It sounded like Russian. --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 17:23, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it's definitely not English. I'm listening to the song right now. – anemone projectors – 15:12, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

As a Russian-speaker I can say that he was pronouncing some words, which were not Russian words, but some absurd, sounding like Russian words. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.248.242 (talk) 11:14, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Henrydegraaf, 11 May 2011
The Netherlands is not mentioned at the list of broadcastings. It should say: The Netherlands – The first, the second semi-final and the final will be broadcast on NED 1 by the TROS.

Henrydegraaf (talk) 17:17, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a source for this? Thanks. --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 18:58, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * What about this  from the original nl page here? Martinevans123 (talk) 21:07, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
 * That will do, thanks! Will add it now. --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 21:16, 11 May 2011 (UTC)

Which countries are not participating?
There is a map showing which countries are not participating this year, however, there is no text saying which ones they are, so I don't think everyone knows all the countries in this part of the world by heart. Why isn't there a mention on them? Dollvalley (talk) 09:59, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * This article is only about the 2011 Contest. If there are sources about proposed participation by a country specific to this year which didn't go ahead, then it probably should be mentioned. General lists of countries which are not participating were included in the year articles in the past, however they were discontinued must because they were repetitive (e.g. Vatican City had to be re-listed every year), and there were difficulties and controversies (e.g. Kosovo) in determining which countries should be included. List of countries in the Eurovision Song Contest, which contains multiple lists on the issue, and Template:Eurovision countries, which lists all current and past participants, is more appropriate for such content. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 12:44, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Well I think it's such a small list that it doesn't hurt anyone and avoids going to look for it elsewhere. If it's on the main ESC page, I didn't find it, and honestly it's annoying having to go look for it in such lenghty articles, that's why it should be included and it's not the same every time. Morover,they are clearly stated in the map in a different color, having a legend is only logical. Also, Kosovo? They never participated. We don't care about countries that have never been part of the show. Dollvalley (talk) 22:07, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * List of countries in the Eurovision Song Contest is of a sensible length and within the Article size guidelines, so I see no issue there. Mass duplicating content in many articles when it is well covered in one, List of countries in the Eurovision Song Contest, wastes editors time and Wikipedia's resources. To be fundamental about it, this article is supposed be a general introduction to the 2011 Eurovision Song Contest, primarily of prose (not lists), based on information given from sources specifically about the 2011 Contest. Within this spirit of this, countries which did participate are obviously included because they are discussed by sources for the 2011 Contest. Furthermore, as I said earlier countries which did not participate but there was significant coverage of them from sources for the 2011 Contest can be discussed in prose. This is an objective, and hence neutral, determination of what and should not be included in the article. A non-participants lists would have to subjective criteria on what is included (who's "we"?), and would often require use of multiple sources to determine a country's eligibility many of which would be non-specific to the 2011 Contest, which would arguably overly drift from the purpose of the article. The compatibility of such a list with the No original research and Neutral point of view policies could arguably be questioned as well, given that the list would be based on editor's research and opinions on who the "non-participants" are, rather than a straight reporting of what sources say. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 22:43, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Bluearmygr, 12 May 2011
There is no MACEDONIA country!! It is called FYROM.. also no Macedonian language! Macedonia is a part of Greece

Bluearmygr (talk) 19:12, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Please read the answer to FAQ question four (see the top of this page), which goes into detail on why the country is referred to as Macedonia in Eurovision articles. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 21:11, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Broadcasting section
I don't think this section is necessary at all. Isn't it obvious that the broadcaster for each country will be the one broadcasting the event? On the pages for past years, this section was to describe which countries could view the contest though they were not participating. Grk1011 (talk) 21:17, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes it's necessary. Not every country broadcasts the event, and guess what, every country usually has more than one channel/broadcaster, and some broadcasters are not even part of the EBU. You should then say the same for the commentators and spokespersons, who cares about those? Or which broadcasters did so in High Definition? Why remove it, it's very helpful.Dollvalley (talk) 22:09, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * If you look back at present and past discussions at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision, you will find that Grk1011 has said similar things about commentators and spokespersons. The argument that content should be kept because it is "helpful" or "useful" is not a strong one on Wikipedia as many things which are not appropriate for an encyclopaedia may considered "helpful" or "useful" by editors and readers - see WP:ITSUSEFUL. Content should be kept based on whether it is appropriate for an encyclopaedic article, and do have some sympathy for the case that they are not, at least in their present form. Firstly, many of these entries are unsourced, which is a violation of the Verifiability policy, and in the case on content of living people, a violation of the Biographies of living persons policy. Secondly, they are full of abbreviations of broadcasters which a general audience (which is what the article is supposed to be aimed at) will find difficult to understand, particularly when no link is provided, and is essentially "Eurovision jargon". WP:MOSABBR says that abbreviations should be specified in full on first use, which I have tried to enforce on this article in the past but given up with for the moment given the sheer number of abbreviations. To be fair these issue are fixable, but I do wonder if commentators and spokespersons should be given their own separate list article for each year, and a case could also be made for one central list article for broadcasters. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 23:02, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, most entries are sourced. I actually asked HERE how you create references for the two i added because I don't know how to, and nobody replied. Also, if you have a look at most tv shows, they have sections showing what channels across the world broadcast them. I've never seen any complaints against them. There are only 7 entries that are not sourced, so it's not that many, and two of them are mine, and if you tell me how to, I can source them. Most entries have links to wiki pages of those broadcasters (only four of them are abbreviations with no links, that's not a lot or many as you say). Isn't that the correct way? Also, it should be taken into consideration that you cannot find everything on the internet. Some sourcing cannot be done elecronically. Also, for example, I can find the links to a tv program, but it will be useless a month's time because the sites do not keep old tv programs online. So if in one month's time the link is useless, does it mean the mention in the article has to be removed? If so, wikipedia would be empty. And what does the biography of living or dead people have to do in this matter? I don't understand. Dollvalley (talk) 23:11, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * WP:CITE and WP:CITET provide details on how to source content. This page can get a lot of traffic and only a few editors actually monitor the talk page, so some comments will be missed. Please note that this talk page is primarily for discussing improvements to the article, not asking for help on using Wikipedia, please see the Help desk for that, which is much better monitored. No, just linking abbreviations is not the correct way, as WP:MOSABBR makes clear. Explaining the link in text rather than forcing the reader to switch page is a good idea, even if there have been no complaints (though I know they have been - mostly because I myself have complained about it in the past). Sources do not have to be online - please read fully Verifiability and Identifying reliable sources which goes into detail on the purpose of sources and what can be sourced. Sources can be from books, newspapers, TV, films and many other media. Dead links are an issue on Wikipedia, but still resolvable - see WP:DEADLINK. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 23:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)


 * To answer the two questions you added from your original post. I didn't give a number of abbreviations, and I said "they are full of abbreviations of broadcasters", not "they are full of abbreviations of broadcasters without links". I referenced the Biographies of living persons (WP:BLP) policy because the commentators and spokespersons sections, which were mentioned, concern living people. Such content is highly sensitive on Wikipedia and it is especially important that such content is sourced, as the WP:BLP policy explains. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 23:35, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

vandalism of the article
some person added sweden under english translation for popular. the article is semi protected so i cant correct it myself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.86.142 (talk) 21:21, 12 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Some one must have already reverted it because it is not there --MSalmon (talk) 21:23, 12 May 2011 (UTC) i can see that. it doesnt change the fact that it was there.

"Grapic design" section
The section headed "Graphic design" has no citations. The way it is written, it is not relevant to the broader subject of the entire article. If, after research has been done, the topic seems like it should be included in the article, it needs to be drastically re-written. [I apologize for breaking any wiki protocol—I tried to brush up as best I could and will continue to learn, so unless I did something hideous, please don't point out that I messed up in my posting manners.)Hipvicar (talk) 05:49, 13 May 2011 (UTC)hipvicar


 * I agree that the lack of references is a concern, and perhaps it should be removed for the time being until references are provided. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 21:44, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Rafcat, 13 May 2011
The spokesperson for Russia is Dima Bilan

Rafcat (talk) 23:05, 13 May 2011 (UTC)


 * This appears to have already been added to the article. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 11:10, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Croatian broadcasting
In Croatia, 1&2 halffinals and finals will be (were) broadcast on HRT 1 (Croatian Radiotelevision). This is link to saturday's schedule: http://raspored.hrt.hr/?raspored=1&mreza=2&datum=2011-05-14. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.147.99.132 (talk) 23:51, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Mattiiscool, 14 May 2011
Slovenia - Andrej Hofer

Mattiiscool (talk) 19:39, 14 May 2011 (UTC)


 * sources for ireland's commenter Marty Whelan. The Irish Times, Irish Independent —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.183.225 (talk) 20:23, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please be more specific about what needs to be changed. Stickee (talk)  04:55, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

vote presenter from Slovakia
If I'm not mistaken her name was Marina Petrova, but nowhere seems to be any info about her, anyone to clear this out? Rolton (talk) 22:04, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I think it's Martina and I'm not sure about surname (can't find her on the internet). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.173.20.32 (talk) 22:42, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Update posting!
Jesus christ people, preview before posting. I know it is nice to be quick and fresh and first with the updates but it's very unprofessional when you mess up the results table with every bloody edit! --Lead holder (talk) 22:30, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Winning song of previous year prominently in opener
I don't understand why the opening paragraph of every year's article should feature the last winner so prominently. The song has pretty much no importance during the show even though it's the reason the show is in that country. More emphasis should be put on the winning song of that year. Also, wasn't the winner simply billed as Lena? Why is her full name used everywhere on this article? Dollvalley (talk) 23:05, 14 May 2011 (UTC)


 * About the latter question: it is somewhat difficult to ascertain the "correct" name. While she competed twice in the ESC simply under the moniker "Lena", in Germany she is just as well known under the full name "Lena Meyer-Landrut". Since the records are also published under only "Lena", though, it may be correct to reduce the name in this article. --Ulkomaalainen (talk) 11:28, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Irish spokesperon
The Irish spokesperson was Derek Mooney —Preceding unsigned comment added by JimJayuu (talk • contribs) 23:24, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

Dutch spokeperson
The name of Daniël Dekker is wrong written, because when writing Daniel it's not the good dutch pronounce, please change it! :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.31.203.192 (talk) 23:50, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

More Results
I'm working on the results by country, using the same format from the 2010 page, in my userspace. Please let me do the table work (I'll be copying it straight into this article when I'm done for whoever wishes to work on it for enhancements), but you may comment either in the comments section there (please use a section edit instead of a full page edit, it prevents edit conflicts) or simply on my talk page. I may call it quits before I finish as it's getting late here, in which case I'll finish in the morning my time. Note that the "countries giving 12 points" will not be touched until I finish the chart, then I'll use the chart as a reference and bold the 12 points entries in the chart at that time (while working on inputting the results it's easier if I don't bold them right now). The letters are my own tool to help me edit easily; for my purpose, I know I'm on country O (15th one voting) as I type, and so on. I have to add a few columns to reach 43 countries, I'll get to that. CycloneGU (talk) 05:42, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Update: almost done, about eight countries left to add results for. I'll finish and transfer sometime after I wake up, shouldn't take too long as I'm in the last 20 minutes now of the show.  CycloneGU (talk) 07:25, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Theodorian, 15 May 2011
Add Cyprus Commendators as Melina Karageorgiou (Μελίνα Καραγεωργίου) Site for referece: http://www.onlycy.com/κύπρος-απόψε-β-ημιτελικός-eurovision Thank you

Theodorian (talk) 08:22, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: Do you have an English language source for it? --Wintonian (talk) 03:35, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Theodorian, 15 May 2011
Broadcasting of Cyprus. CyBC (PIK) Source and site reference: http://www.onlycy.com/κύπρος-απόψε-β-ημιτελικός-eurovision

Theodorian (talk) 08:27, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: Again do you have an English language sorce for it? --Wintonian (talk) 03:37, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

German broadcasting of 1st semifinal
The 1st semifinal was broadcasted live also by EinsFestival (ARD), parallel to ProSieben. -- 46.115.1.52 (talk) 15:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Request of the Table of the Final
Can someone build a table with all the scores of the Final? Thanks --Antonio Alvigi (talk) 15:48, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Cost of the event
Does anyone have some serious figures how expensive the event really was? Or are they kept secret? 50TYeV (talk) 16:03, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

ranking
hey...shouldn't Turkey have a higher ranking than Albania, and Slovakia than Bulgaria because the formers have more 12pts given to them than the latters?? Please check also for others that tied. --Ja 1207 (talk) 16:16, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * The simple answer is no. In case of a tie, the higher position in the ranking is assigned to the song that has received points from the greater number of countries. If there is still a tie, the second tie-breaker is to count the number of countries who assigned twelve points to each entry in the tie. Tie-breaks continue with ten points, eight points, and so on until the tie is resolved. If the tie is not resolved, the winner is decided by means of a draw. However, are only officially resolved if they matter for victory or qualification purposes.--130.226.70.114 (talk) 20:13, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I get the tiebreaker. And the "officially resolved if they matter for victory or qualification", but shouldn't it be put to use in Wikipedia and the non-qualifiers as well??--Ja 1207 (talk) 11:59, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

TV ratings and number of votes
would be a nice add. – HTD  ( ITN: Where no updates but is stickied happens. ) 16:41, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Finals Added
That was a lot of work, but it's done. =) One comment, however.  In music tables, when a cell would be blank or empty, we use a long hyphen "—" in that cell (see for example Kenny Rogers discography or Britney Spears discography for applications of this).  I've done the same for the finals here, as well as including an X where a country's voting column crosses its' participants.  What are others' thoughts of copying this into the SF tables as well?  I thought this was reasonable; it certainly helped me while working on the table, as 43 countries is a lot to work through! =)  CycloneGU (talk) 17:11, 15 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you for your diligent work! I however, for one, don't think the hyphens and X's are necessary at all. Compared to the final scoreboards in articles about previous years' contests, the added symbols make the table a lot more confusing and unclear. In cells where no points were given, I'd just say we should leave them blank. Off-the-air (talk) 22:45, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Edit: Ah, now that was quick, ey! Off-the-air (talk) 22:46, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Point made and I'll accept that. However, I have issues with the rearrangement of the horizontal layout.  I think it really should be, for this and previous years, in the order the votes were presented on the telecast.  Also, someone in the edit history noted an error in the table; there were no errors in my version of the table, so I feel that someone literally just copied over my twice-checked and fully accurate work using the format they preferred.  CycloneGU (talk) 02:40, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Not that it matters, but... I totally agree with you. - Jetro (talk) 13:27, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Jury Spokepersons?
Why is section with spokepersons called "Jury Spokepersons"? They have nothing to do with jury, they annouce final results.--89.173.20.32 (talk) 08:43, 16 May 2011 (UTC)


 * I have fixed this. CT Cooper · &#32;talk 14:07, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Split Jury/Televote
When will EBU release the split jury and televotes??? CoolAbc (talk) 11:00, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * They don't (see scoreboards for information) --MSalmon (talk) 14:07, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * They do, in 2009 the split results were released 2½ months after the final, with last years released a whole month after the final. --  [[ axg  ◉  talk   ]] 18:08, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Sweden
Sweden gave 7 points to Finland in Final. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.223.140.48 (talk) 04:03, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Numbers in Finals table are incorrect
Just checked the row and column sums, which indicate that there are errors. Sweden column is missing 7 and 8. Estonia column has two 8's. Greece column has two 7's. Serbia column has two 7's. Netherlands has no 4 but two 5's. Macedonia column is missing 8.

Denamrk total is 7 more than the value in the "Total Score" column. Romania total is 1 more than the value in the "Total Score" column. Serbia total is 8 less than the value in the "Total Score" column.

I haven't checked the other tables.
 * Ok, it should be all ok now, I have checked what you have given and updated as necessary --MSalmon (talk) 18:24, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

This is what happens when multiple editors try to do the same thing. My version here, which I copied into the article, was later replaced completely by another version in this edit. CycloneGU (talk) 23:11, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Wabberjockey, 16 May 2011
There are errors in the voting table for the final. As a crosscheck ensure that all columns add up to 58. Caused by data transcription errors on transfer from the Eurovision website cited already. The first 3 are the result of simple leftwards shifts in three adjacent columns. 1) Correct voting for Sweden: 7 votes to Finland and 8 to Bosnia and Hercegovina. (No entry for 7 and 8 votes appears now) 2) Correct voting for Estonia: no votes to Bosnia and Herzegovina. (Double entry for 8 votes). 3) Correct voting for Greece: no votes to Finland. (Double entry for 7 votes). 4) Correct voting for Serbia: no votes to Denmark. (Double entry for 7 votes). 5) Correct voting for Netherlands: 4 votes to Romania not 5. (Double entry for 5 votes). 6) Correct voting for Macedonia: 8 votes to Serbia. (Missing entry for 8 votes).

Wabberjockey (talk) 18:56, 16 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done --Wintonian (talk) 03:44, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Fill music
While there was precious little space for fill background music, one notable item was "Wonderful" by Gary Go. I wonder does anyone have a source? But it's pretty obvious if you listen again. Martinevans123 (talk) 23:06, 16 May 2011 (UTC)

Slovak broadcaster
Semi-final 1 and final were broadcasted on STV 1 (and STV 1 HD), however, semi-final 2 was broadcasted on STV 2 (SD only) because of scheduling reasons (2011 IIHF World Championship), please fix it :)--89.173.20.32 (talk) 16:06, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

Danish jury
The Danish jury members were Erann Drori (singer/songwriter), Le Gammeltoft (radio presenter/DJ), Mathilde Kühl (singer/songwriter), Lars 'Chief 1' Pedersen (producer) and Bryan Rice (singer/songwriter). --130.226.70.114 (talk) 20:26, 17 May 2011 (UTC)

National juries
Does anyone have more details about the national juries - e.g. how are they chosen, can they serve more than once, what are their responsibilities, do they have a code of conduct, are they ever seen by the public, do they attend the actual event, etc. etc. They are not very well publicised and do not seem to be democraticaly elected. 86.142.92.61 (talk) 07:29, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Emanuele75, 25 May 2011
Please edit the page with the names of Italian and Sammarinese Jury. They are official members, announced by Rai and Sam Marino RTV Italy: BEPPE CARLETTI – Musicista e compositore, batterista e leader del complesso “Nomadi” (presidente di giuria), MARCO MOLENDINI - Giornalista e critico musicale de Il Messaggero di Roma, STEFANIA ZIZZARI – Giornalista di Tv Sorrisi e Canzoni, STEFANIA ULIVI -Giornalista del Corriere della Sera Magazine GIANMAURIZIO FODERARO - Speaker radiofonico, voce storica di Radio 1 Rai SAN MARINO: SONIA TURA - Coordinatore Centrale Responsabile News SAT e DTT, Programmi, Web di San Marino RTV (presidente), MASSIMILIANO MESSIERI - Musicista, dottore in composizione, musica elettronica e violoncello, insegnante all’Istituto Musicale Sammarinese. Ha suonato in tutti i più importanti festival italiani ed internazionali e vinto numerosi premi, CHIARA MASI – Music entertainer e ballerina hip hop (secondo le nostre informazioni, si tratta di una giovanissima), CRISTINA POLVERELLI - Muicista, insegnante di pianoforte all’Istituto Musicale Sammarinese e all’Istituto Lettimi di Rimini, concertista

Emanuele75 (talk) 14:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.--Wintonian (talk) 03:45, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Emanuele75, 25 May 2011
The Commentators for San Marino RTV are not only Lia Fiorio but also Gigi Restivo

Emanuele75 (talk) 22:22, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Wintonian (talk) 03:48, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

They asked me reliable source. what about THIS? This is is the same I used for Italian anda Sammarinese Jury

http://news.eurofestival.ws/2011/05/12/dopo-14-anni-vota-di-nuovo-litalia-ecco-tutte-le-indicazioni/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emanuele75 (talk • contribs) 12:14, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Emanuele75, 25 May 2011
I found danish jury members: they were Erann Drori (singer and songwriter), Le Gammeltoft (radio presente and DJ), Mathilde Kühl (singer and songwriter), Lars  Pedersen (producer) and Bryan Rice (singer and songwriter).

ref>http://www.dr.dk/Nyheder/Kultur/2011/05/13/091911.htm

Emanuele75 (talk) 22:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Do you have an English luanguage source? -- Wintonian (talk) 03:49, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Why this request? The source I used is the Danish TV!

Edit request from Emanuele75, 25 May 2011
The memebers of the Belgian jury are: Christine Goor (Speaker of Radio Classic'21), René Michiels (TV Manager of RTBF La Prem1ére), Stéphanie Beernaert (RTBF), Nathan Skweres (Journalist of Radio Nostalgie) and Maarten Verhaeghen (Manager of VRT, Head of Belgian Delegation of  VRT and Member of REference Group of Ebu).

Emanuele75 (talk) 22:37, 25 May 2011 (UTC) Wintonian (talk) 03:51, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

what about of this source:

http://www.eurovision-info.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=41&Itemid=70

Edit request from Emanuele75, 25 May 2011
The member of the french jury are: Marie Myryam (singer, winner of Esc 1977, chairman), Frédéric Zeitoun (muisc journalist and Lyricist, co-writer of "Le grand soir", in 2005, for Blegium), Patrick Demailly (cultural Jorrnalist), Gaëlle Gauthier (singer, member of the musical  "Mamma Mia" and Serge Poezevara (wrtier and radio speaker of France Bleu).

ref: http://www.eurovision-info.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=40&Itemid=71

Emanuele75 (talk) 22:41, 25 May 2011 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done - Happysailor  (Talk) 19:07, 29 May 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Emanuele75, 26 May 2011
The members of greek Jury were Mariza Fakli – Head of Greek Eurovision Delegation (president of committee. Κostas Alagiannis - ΕRΑ radio producer, Μaria Κozakou - ΕRΑ radio producer, Αntonis Karatzikos – President of OGAE International, Μihalis Messinis - ΕRΑ radio special producer

http://eurovision.ert.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=209:2011-03-12-12-10-02&catid=46:2011-01-21-12-29-47&Itemid=53&lang=en

Emanuele75 (talk) 15:47, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ❌ not a reliable source. See identifying reliable sources. — James (Talk • Contribs) • 10:59am • 00:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

"Not reliable source" the greek eurovision site? I Think you're joking! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Emanuele75 (talk • contribs) 12:36, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The best sources are independent of their subject, published, authoritative, fact-checked, written by professional writers/journalists/industry experts/academics, fact-checked, and peer-reviewed. Try to find the same information in that kind of source.  Also read WP:SOURCES. Ocaasit 16:45, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

The ERT is an official Eurovision broadcaster and thus both primary source used as a source on itself as well as a news_organization written by professional journalists, so it's a valid source per Verifiability. Diego Moya (talk) 14:56, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Emanuele75, 26 May 2011
The members of the Portuguese jury: Ana Galvão (journalist, Portuguese spokesperson), Ricardo Soler (singer), Ramon Gallarza (music producer), Paula Cazanova (Sony Music Manager), Américo Faria (music composer/author). http://www.escchat.com/threads/portuguese-jury-votes.506

Emanuele75 (talk) 15:50, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ❌ not a reliable source. See identifying reliable sources. — James (Talk • Contribs) • 10:59am • 00:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Edit request from Emanuele75, 26 May 2011
The member of swiss Jury were: Gustav, singer, winner of Champ der Chore; Franziska von Grüningen (DRS3 radio dj), Jean-Marie Fontana (Universal Music Manager), Daniela Simmons (Singr for switzerland in 1986) and Andrea Pärli (Music critical). http://www.blick.ch/unterhaltung/eurovision/sie-entscheidet-heute-ueber-annas-chancen-172459

Emanuele75 (talk) 16:27, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
 * ❌ not a reliable source. See identifying reliable sources. — James (Talk • Contribs) • 10:59am • 00:59, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Blick is the main swiss newspaper!!!! Why is not a reliable source?
 * While it has high readership (apparently the second most circulated paper in the country) that does not necessarily make it reliable. Reliability is about sound sourcing, neutrality and fair appraisal. A misconception believed by 95% of the population does not a truth make. The link James provided above should be of more use for you in this instance, and don't forget to sign your posts. S.G.(GH) ping! 15:27, 7 June 2011 (UTC)
 * As a professional news organization, Blick's statements of fact should be presumed reliable per WP:NEWSORG. Unless you have a reason to doubt of this newspaper, the source should be considered valid. Diego Moya (talk) 15:01, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Discrepancies in Semi Final 2 Scoring
There appears to be two discrepancies in the scoring of the second semi final:

Votes from each country should total 58 but the votes from Bosnia and Herzegovina total 62 and those from The Netherlands only total 50. There are two 7 point votes from B H (for Austria and for Ireland). I suspect one should be 3. There is no 8 point vote from Netherlands.

Stu WP user (talk) 15:30, 29 May 2011 (UTC)