Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2015/Archive 1

Removal of Scotland from 'Other Countries' section
I've removed Scotland from the other countries section. Whoever added them stated that Scotland may debut in 2015 if they gained independence. This fact is actually incorrect. In July 2013 it was already noted and verified that if Scotland were to say yes to independence in the 2014 Referendum, that their independence status would not come into force until 2016 - and thus based on that verified fact it would make it impossible for a 2015 debut. Wes  Mᴥuse  17:52, 10 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Good decision. Only sourced material in that section.--BabbaQ (talk) 23:24, 10 May 2014 (UTC)

That is correct. If there is Yes vote in September the earliest they will become an independent country is March 2016 (as per the Scottish Governments White paper) and approx 6 weeks before the scheduled Scottish parliament elections on 5th May 2016. Entry to eurovision will also depend on (1) the establishment of 'Scottish Broadcasting Services'; (2) their acceptance as a member of the EBU and (3) them wanting to enter the contest.Given the practicalities I think that the earliest there could be a Scottish entry is 2017 ChrisInBalham (talk) 14:18, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Host city confirmed
According to this Eurovision.tv interview, ORF (Austrian broadcaster) have confirmed Vienna will be the host city. Wes  Mᴥuse  01:47, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Great. Some sort of record :)--BabbaQ (talk) 10:26, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I still think it's a bit too early, and maybe not 100% agreed it will be in Vienna. --  axg  // ✉  ]] ''' 12:16, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * But what other city would host it? Salzburg? Vienna seems to be the most probable choice. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.164.215 (talk • contribs) 17:07, 11 May 2014‎
 * It may be the 'probable choice' but the you've got to realise that Ireland hosted the event in a large barn in Millstreet; and similarly this year in an old dock building, yes it was in Copenhagen, but could have been anywhere. --  axg  // ✉  ]] ''' 18:13, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, all the current information about Vienna or Salzburg hosting the event are WRONG. There was a mistake in the Interview you quoted. Please read my rectification: MISTAKES. Cheers, Noah --89.144.235.226 (talk) 18:35, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No need to bold the text or inform us that there is a new thread, we can read the watchlist tells us if a new thread has been created on a talk page.  Wes   Mᴥuse  18:59, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * More cities/regions have bid: http://escxtra.com/2014/05/austrian-cities-throw-their-hat-in-the-ring-for-next-years-hosting-duties/ Xinxaa (talk) 14:50, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Eurovoix.com have published a full list of host cities/venues that have reportedly thrown their "hat in the ring" for hosting. I've done a draft copy in my sandbox using the similar style that we've done for bidding phases since 2011. Let me know if you'd like it to be included in the article. Wes  Mᴥuse  15:32, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter now, an editor has already stolen my work from my sandbox and is now claiming it to be their own work. A bit sickening to be honest, and for the fact they don't even have the balls to admit they've stolen it.   Wes   Mᴥuse  21:33, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Sorry to hear about the stolen work. The 2005 IIHF World Championships were held in two venues, the Wiener Stadthalle and Olympiahalle. Just thought it might be interesting to add to the notes section. Love all the work you all put into the Eurovision Song Contest pages. Demrep (talk) 02:38, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

perhaps a likely participants list should be added
many of the countries is likely to participate again. norway for example is already discussing next year`s selection. another suggestion is that the next year link should be marked in red until the article ia created.84.208.60.156 (talk) 12:59, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The article will only contain countries that have confirmed their participation next year and other countries that are at least planning on participating or withdrawing. With sources. --  <font color=#000 face="SwissMad, Arial">axg <font color=#4169E1> // <font color=#000>✉  ]] ''' 13:26, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * And the 'next year' link will never be made red. If we did, then it would become a victim of vandalism - hence why it is a redirect to the main Eurovision Song Contest article, to prevent such vandals from doing their thing.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  15:21, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Valentina Monetta is rumored to come back next year (yet again). She hinted at it on the official YouTube channel. Maybe put that in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.164.215 (talk) 17:07, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * We don't deal with rumours around here, unfortunately. Everything must be verified by sources.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  16:13, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Finland
I believe in the second semi-final qualifiers press conference, the Finnish head of delegation revealed that UMK will be used again for 2015. Could that be considered a confirmation? Jjj1238 (talk) 14:14, 11 May 2014 (UTC)
 * After a long and arduous search I found this: http://esctoday.com/83409/eurovision-2014-2nd-semi-final-press-conference-re-cap/]. 101090ABC (talk) 16:44, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

Mistakes
Hi everyone, I am from Austria and just read the article.

I would like you help to improve it a little bit, as there are obviously some uncertainties.

Fact is: The person, believed to be an ORF spokesman, was Rene Berto the manager of Conchita Wurst. But he clearly is not entitled to say where the ESC will be hosted next year. However, Alexander Wrabetz, director general of ORF confirmed that the ESC 2015 will take place in Austria with ORF being host broadcaster. He also statet that they haven't yet figured out where in Austria it will take place. There was absolutely no talk about Vienna, Salzburg or any other city. He said, that ORF has already received many offers and that they will start discussing about the venue tomorrow. But still, no talk about any city. (Interview: http://www.krone.at/Oesterreich/Song_Contest_2015_Jetzt_heissts_schon_mal_Sparen-Nach_Wurst-Triumph-Story-403829)
 * First of all, nobody in Austria actually calls the Austrian Broadcasting Corporation Österreichischer Rundfunk, i would suggest you just write ORF (Austrian Broadcasting Corportation) one time, and then continue with ORF.
 * The article (http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=conchita_wurst_participating_in_eurovision_felt_like_coming_home) in which it says an ORF representative announced the 60th Eurovision Song Contest to be in Vienna is WRONG.

So, don't be so overzealous and impatient. We will know soon enough, but right now we know absolutely nothing, except that Austria will host the event with ORF being host provider. So I'd really suggest you remove all the wrong parts I mentioned.

Greetings from Vienna, Noah — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.144.235.226 (talk) 18:30, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * In answer to the first point, ORF is the abbreviation which we use mainly. However, as the commonly-known abbreviation also has an uncommonly used full title, we need to show that too in areas that require it.  It is the same for BBC, everyone in the UK know the broadcaster as BBC but its full official title is British Broadcasting Corporation.


 * In answer to the second point. The article does not explicitly state Vienna will be the host city.  What it does show that a representative said it could be Vienna, but official confirmation has yet to be announced.  Doing this maintains neutral point of view whilst also pointing out what has been said in an interview which has been verified with a reliable source.  So unfortunately there are no wrong parts at this present time, only parts that are accurate according to the sources that cite them. Regular editors of WikiProject Eurovision are well aware that this article is still in its early stages, and will obviously be updated between now and May 2015 as and when more information is published.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  18:54, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Ok, you are right with the first point, ORF.
 * About the article from the "reliable source", as you called it. I have seen the press conference this source refers to and i tell you that there has obviously been a mistake as the person talking about Vienna is not member of the ORF. I also don't know why he said it, but he cleraly was not in the power of saying this or deciding it. He just mentioned Vienna as it is the largest city and capital of Austria and it seem likely the ESC will be held there due to its infrastructure, large venues, ...
 * But, really, I myself was at a press conference today at Vienna International Airport, where Conchita landed. The director of ORF was there too and he said, as I already pointet out, that at this point they do not know where it will take place and therefore you should not write rumours from a wrong source.
 * I did not mean to offend you in any way, I just wanted to help you improving your article. But if this is the standard in the English Wikipedia, well then, feel free to leave it as it is. You will find out soon enough.

So once again: Right now, any city is possible. Why don't you mention Graz, Klagenfurt or other cities? It could be anywhere, we don't know ir right now. --89.144.235.226 (talk) 20:06, 11 May 2014 (UTC)


 * As you're a new editor who may be unfamiliar with Wikipedia procedure, may I recommend taking time to read the core policies which we as editors are suppose to be abiding to. Eurovision.tv is the official website, thus making it a lot more reliable than a source published by another website.  Further information on sourcing can also be found here.  The location section currently reads "After the victory of the country in the 2014 Contest, the Austrian delegation revealed the possibilities of hosting the contest either in the capital city, Vienna, or Salzburg."  That detail is sufficient at this present time based on the sources that are citing the context.  Once more details become known about any bidding process for host cities, then that too would be added to the article.  But only when such information is available.  Over the years, these annual Eurovision pages have grown and evolved.  Take the 2014 article for example, the location detail on there was as basic as it is on this 2015 article.  However as more information became known, then the article too grew to show those changes.  At the end of the day Wikipedia has no deadline, articles are always evolving with new details as and when they are available.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  20:16, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

UK confirmed
UK is confirmed - Guy Freeman (head of UK delegation) talked about building on the 2014 selection process and potentially expanding it for the 2015 contest in this press conference 6.00 minutes to 7.05 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2KIVANtccE 80.192.73.31 (talk) 10:08, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * He's still only the HoD, the BBC can still decide to withdraw. --  <font color=#000 face="SwissMad, Arial">axg <font color=#4169E1> // <font color=#000>✉  ]] ''' 12:25, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It's not different to the information used for Finland, above 80.192.73.31 (talk) 14:04, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Be careful too as there are sources emerging that allegedly Robbie Williams has said he wants to represent the UK in 2015.  <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  18:13, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2014
5.54.113.91 (talk) 13:30, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The request must be of the form "please change X to Y". --  <font color=#000 face="SwissMad, Arial">axg <font color=#4169E1> // <font color=#000>✉  ]] ''' 13:39, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2014
http://oikotimes.com/2014/05/12/greece-seriously-thinking-to-withdraw/ greece can withdraw

WikiHelperBe (talk) 16:49, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 16:59, 12 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Oikotimes is semi-reliable (see this list), and sources from that website are being treated with caution and must only be used if the source also provides reference of their sourcing. New articles from that website are created by professional editors (who state where they got their news from) and also general members who tend to publish fake reports, and people do not realise that.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  17:04, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 May 2014
http://eurovictor-96.blogspot.be/2014/05/four-countries-withdrawing.html also france, russia and azerbaijan

WikiHelperBe (talk) 16:57, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 16:59, 12 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Source is a blog and not permitted per WP:BLOGS, as verifiability would be disputed.  <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  17:01, 12 May 2014 (UTC)

Turkey, Belarus and Russia
Report from Der Tagesspiegel, is that Turkey will now not return to the contest 'forever' after the Austrian win from Conchita.

Also reports of Russia and Belarus are planning on creating a song contest. --  <font color=#000 face="SwissMad, Arial">axg <font color=#4169E1> // <font color=#000>✉  ]] ''' 17:50, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The Russian thing had been added to the article, although the editor did a word-for-word copy of the news report which goes against WP:COPYVIO. I was in the middle of copyediting it, but as always I click save and voilà edit conflict happens, only to find the entire Russian part has now been removed for being "gossip".  Not sure how it can be deemed gossip if it were sourced.  <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  18:01, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Is the Russian part about "starting a new contest" really relevant to this article, is it needed? --90.204.240.206 (talk) 22:29, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * This is what we are discussing, in case you hadn't noticed. We're trying to build a consensus on whether the information is suited for this article, or better suited on Russia in the Eurovision Song Contest.  Personally, I'm not fussed where it is included.  But until an outright decision is reached, then I'd say leave it where it is for now.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  22:32, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay fair enough. Thanks for the quick reply Wes. --90.204.240.206 (talk) 22:36, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome.  <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  22:48, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I think that informations about the Russian planned contest isn't at all related with this voice and have to be removed; I think also that information about Turkey can stay in the voice (but not in the Commons map, it isn't an official confirmation by TRT). --Gce (talk) 22:23, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * When you say "voice", I assume you mean "article"? IF so, then perhaps you're right that Russia should be removed from the article.  The information may be better off added to Russia in the Eurovision Song Contest.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  13:05, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Exactly, you can move the information to the Russian ESC article, but I think that, in case Russia will not really create this contest, this information have to be considered as a speculation. --Gce (talk) 15:46, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

✅ - I've transferred the information from this article to Russia in Eurovision article, as it's agreed the information is more relevant to that article, rather than this one. <font color="#9900ff">Wes  <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  15:53, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

San Marino
Valentina Monetta officially says that isn't possible repeat what happened in last 3 years and hope to see next year a new singer from San Marino. http://eurofestivalnews.com/2014/05/17/eurovision-2014-il-bilancio-di-san-marino-e-lanno-prossimo/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.55.9.154 (talk) 16:29, 17 May 2014 (UTC)

Switzerland
I don't know if it is already formally confirmed, but, similarly to the Information used for Finland, I think this http://www.srf.ch/unterhaltung/events-shows/eurovision-song-contest/eurovision-song-contest-2015-jetzt-songs-schreiben is as close to a confirmation as it gets. The Swiss television broadcaster is already searching for songs for 2015. Thus, I think they should be added to the participans. 81.221.147.109 (talk) 14:42, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That is as close as it gets in terms of a source of confirmation. I'm sure as we get nearer to the contest in 2015 other sources will emerge.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  15:20, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

✅ - Added to the list of confirmed countries. <font color="#9900ff">Wes  <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  15:25, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Hungary
Hungary will participate in 2015 Eurovision Song Contest. They said in the News (MTV Híradó) on May 12, 2014.

http://www.hirado.hu/videok/?video=135095 (from 31:00)

Sorry, the newsreader speaks Hungarian. In the beginning you see András Kállay-Saunders, then she talking about the Eurovision Song Contest. <font color="#0B610B">Balint36   <font color="#0B3B17">vita (talk)  18:56, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Here's an article which says András Kállay-Saunders will apply for A Dal 2015: http://www.escdaily.com/andras-kallay-saunders-compete/ D97v (talk) 19:17, 20 May 2014 (UTC)


 * On a different note here, is aware that they are not suppose to use images in their signature, per WP:SIGIMAGE?   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  04:33, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I believe this is a good enough source to confirm Hungarian participation. I'll add it to the article, if anyone believes otherwise just let me know. <font color="#AB2B2B">{ [ ( jjj   <font color="#000000">1238 ) ] }  05:37, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2014
Denmark has also confirmed: http://escxtra.com/2014/05/two-more-countries-confirmed-for-2015/ could we edit that in?

NickvL (talk) 07:29, 21 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done The participation map needs updating though. Sam Sailor Sing 07:59, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Source for Armenia and Belarus
The source used for Armenia's confirmation is Oikotimes. I have tried to google it, and it was still the only article coming up. Oikotimes is also used for Belarus in Other Countries, but here I have found a couple of other sources: http://www.belarus.by/en/press-center/press-release/rybak-ready-to-coach-eurovision-2015-contestant-from-belarus_i_11008.html and http://belarusfacts.mfa.gov.by/en/belarus/belarus_news/fe56f531e13e2969.html. Aejsing (talk) 10:51, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

norway`s participation is likely
it could at least be added to other countries for the time being. though what channel will participate isnt really known. nrk is doing a lot of cuts so tv 2 could take over. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.208.60.156 (talk) 14:35, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 May 2014
http://eurovisionbelgium.blogspot.be/2014/05/after-copenhagen-wie-moet-er-in-2015.html Belgium has not confirmed yet but ''deredactie (VRT)talks about the methods for searching th representant for 2015

91.176.242.105 (talk) 19:22, 21 May 2014 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. Thanks, Older and ... well older (talk) 19:49, 21 May 2014 (UTC)


 * The way the request was written reminded me of how my late-mother use to get her sentences sounding like gobbledegook. Thankfully I got fluent in it.  It looks like the IP has found a source that is making reference to Belgian national broadcaster looking into methods to find their representative for 2015.  We could either mention in the 'other countries' section or wait for more solid information.  Any views?   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  16:12, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 May 2014
The source for The Netherlands' confirmation is not reliable enough. All it says is that the Dutch commentator wants another big name to do Eurovision. The broadcaster has not confirmed participation yet.

NickvL (talk) 12:20, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. — &#123;&#123;U&#124;Technical 13&#125;&#125; (t • e • c) 14:11, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm dubious about NickvL's request. Is there any reason why he states the source is unreliable?  Is there any reason not to give them benefit of the doubt in what they publish?   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  16:16, 22 May 2014 (UTC)


 * The change I'm requesting is to remove The Netherlands from the list of confirmed participants. The article used as source does not state that the broadcaster is going to participate. Commentator Jan Smit spoke about Eurovision in the article, but it has nothing to do with the broadcaster's intentions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NickvL (talk • contribs) 16:56, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I took a look at it and you're right, the source says nothing about Netherlands participating in 2015. I'll remove it. Pickette (talk) 19:49, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 May 2014
Please add Germany to the list of confirmed participants. They have confirmed: http://escxtra.com/2014/05/another-three-confirmations-for-2015/

NickvL (talk) 15:25, 23 May 2014 (UTC)


 * ✅. Thanks  <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  16:04, 23 May 2014 (UTC)

Russia
I've removed the content regarding Russia again. It was already decided at not to include information about Russia making a new contest. It is irrelevant this this article. The fact they are making a new contest does not mean they may withdraw from Eurovision. Assuming it does goes seriously against WP:CRYSTAL. Plus it contained the prose "this may put Russia's participation in doubt". The citation didn't even mention anything about Eurovision participation being in doubt, and thus is highly WP:POV and WP:WEASEL. <font color="#9900ff">Wes  <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  00:11, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It's been there for awhile and I only added extra stuff to it since it wasn't updated with the most recent information, sorry about that. Also, I was wondering would Georgia and San Marino both be considered speculation? <font color="#AB2B2B">{ [ ( jjj   <font color="#000000">1238 ) ] }  00:16, 27 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I hadn't even noticed that the part about Russia's "Voice of Eurasia" had been reverted back into the article. It shouldn't have been really. Neither of the sources for either proposed contest from Russia stipulated that it would bear an impact on withdrawal from ESC.  That was why it was deemed irrelevant (per previous thread above).  And to have used the phrase "this may put Russia's participation in doubt" is a big no-no.  Georgia is not speculation really.  The EBU did state a while ago that as part of their voting clamp-down they were bringing in strict rules, and "banning" countries that were caught "tampering" with the votes.  We could do with adding a citation about that to clarify that we're not "speculating" the German-language source currently being used for Georgia.  San Marino though is "rumour" according to the source.  So that could do with being removed.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  00:24, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

Monaco: rumours as well
The article from Eurovoix is talking about rumours that Josh Stanley has been discussing with TMC. It begins with "According to rumors Monaco could be returning to Eurovision in 2015 thanks to a young Monégasque singer called Josh Stanley." Aejsing (talk) 15:22, 27 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Well spotted, I've removed them too.  <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  15:46, 27 May 2014 (UTC)

A new date and venue requirements
According to this article; http://wiwibloggs.com/2014/05/29/eurovision-dates-orf-venue/51683/ ORF have announced the venue requirements (including a possible rule-out for the locations who don't reach these requirements) and a new preferable date. Maybe to include it? :D :D :D — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.212.222.191 (talk) 22:24, 29 May 2014‎


 * ✅ - It's been added to the article. <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  15:49, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

Cyprus confirmation - True?
http://www.lgr.co.uk/news/music/cyprus-plan-eurovision-return/

Is this true? I've added the reference anyway.. Thejackwiki (talk) 16:33, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Map needs updating/Monaco
I think the map needs to be updated to include Cyprus and the Netherlands. And I also see Monaco has reappeared after it was taken down - are we allowed to have it there? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.77.94.25 (talk) 18:28, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * ✅ - I've removed Monaco yet again, per WP:CRYSTAL. Also updated the map to show Cyprus and Netherlands.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  18:43, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

Netherlands: "indirectly confirmed"
The source used for Netherland sais: "commentator Jan Smit of broadcaster AVROTROS has already been speculating the Dutch act for 2015, indirectly confirming the countries participation of next year". Is that good enough? Aejsing (talk) 19:22, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * No, it was decided that have to be removed (look ). --Gce (talk) 20:59, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The source that was mentioned in was a totally different one, a new source that ProjectEurovision hadn't used before.  From what I see, the citation now is from ESCDaily.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  21:11, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I'm even more dubious now from the discussion raised by in the thread above.  I find it rather ironic that the user name is very similar to Nick van Lith, the same link that NickvL also requested to be used.  And there is even more evidence to verify my doubts of a "feud" between Eurovision websites.  ESCDaily dismiss Wikipedia as well as sources from ESCToday (who we have used to cite Armenia, Iceland, and Norway).  Oikotimes claims that ESC+Plus is an untrustworthy trashy website, yet ESC+Plus clearly show on their website that they source their news accordingly (unlike Oikotimes).  If  is the same Nick van Lith from escxtra, then he can't really make demands that we use his report, as that is against the spirit of conflict of interest as well as WP:SPS.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  21:29, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I am indeed that person from escXtra.com. The reason I asked for 'my' article with Germany is because I got an e-mail from NDR on the topic. At that point, it was the only source available. Now regarding The Netherlands, the source I requested to be removed was from Mediacourant, not the current one. My doubt on The Netherlands however still stands. I do not see a commentator saying 'We need a big name' as a reliable source for confirmation of participation. This has nothing to do with ESCDaily or any other website, but with the fact that Jan Smit, the commentator in question, doesn't have the power to decide on participation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NickvL (talk • contribs) 22:22, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Thank you for confirming that issue. Now this is where we have potential issues with conflict of interest and self-published sources.  The main reason WikiProject Eurovision is cautious with using ESCUnited.com as a citation is because an editor there is also a member of WikiProject Eurovision.  Using sources that a member has published, removes neutral point of view, as we'd basically be citing material that is in their words.  I know you asked for 2 articles of yours to be used on Wikipedia, and at the time I hadn't realised the connection.  You understand where I'm coming from in regards with this matter, right!?  I'm not saying your articles are incorrect, on the contrary I have always regarded escxtra as being highly reliable for their news and pushed hard for the project to accept them as being a reliable source.  From what I gather with WP:COI is that we are fine to cite your articles, but you'd be prohibited from editing Eurovision-related articles using your own "citations".  Not sure what other's views are on this, or even if there is some sort of Wikipedia protocol to follow.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  22:43, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * That is basically why I put the articles in here instead of directly in the article. I think it's wrong if I just put in my own links all the time. During the 'off-season' as we call it, I always e-mail all broadcasters, which does give escXtra some 'exclusive' stuff. As I've always felt Wikipedia was a most accurate and quick way to check things, updated as soon as news came in, I felt that I had to point out the exclusive confirmations we received (like with Czech Republic and Germany). My suggestion would be that as soon as I have 'exclusive' news, I'll let you guys know here on the Talk page, so that you can edit it in if you want to? — Preceding unsigned comment added by NickvL (talk • contribs) 22:57, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * I've just done some quick research into this, and there is guidance at Template:Request edit/COIinstructions which might help. From what it states, we can use sources that belong to Wikipedian's as long as they submit an edit request and allow an "uninvolved editor" to make the edit instead.  I presume by that they mean someone who does is not a work colleague etc.  Also there's suppose to be some kind of disclosure made to make people aware of a COI, but I'm not overly familiar with what the guidance states, as I've never been in a COI situation from a personal perspective.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  23:05, 31 May 2014 (UTC)


 * Back to the topic: I think Netherlands should be removed as there is no actual confirmation at the moment, just an 'indirect' one. Aejsing (talk) 23:23, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I think you'll find the two issues are sort-of related, due to the fact it was raised once before. I'm not fussed either way with the Netherlands.  Perhaps moving them to the 'other countries' section is more plausible?   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  23:29, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * On that topic, I would indeed put them in the 'Other countries' section. I know the person responsible for Eurovision there will return to office on Monday, so I expect a press release from them soon! — Preceding unsigned comment added by NickvL (talk • contribs) 23:37, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I also think 'Other countries' would be fine :-) Aejsing (talk) 23:40, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Indeed back on topic, I have been bold and moved them to the 'other countries' section anyway. It seems logic to do that, as there is an "indirect confirmation", whilst official broadcaster confirmation is yet to be sought.  Hopefully the wording I used should explain that to our reader's.   <font color="#9900ff">Wes   <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  23:41, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

The ones we need to watch out for, and especially around this time of year (going off previous history) is IP's having the urge to add rumours of Liechtenstein and Kosovo. Yes I have seen the rumour articles already about them and 2015 - but they are nothing more reliable then taking a pee whilst the wind is blowing. <font color="#9900ff">Wes  <font color="#0000ff">Mᴥuse  23:52, 31 May 2014 (UTC)