Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2018/Archive 2

Please add to Semi-final 1 section:
The successful Lithuanian semi finalist, Ieva Zasimauskaitė is a follower of the Hare Krishna movement, which makes her the first ever Hindu contestant at Eurovision.
 * The source doesn't say that she is "the first ever Hindu contestant at Eurovision"? In fact, it does't contain the word "Hindu"? I think her religion is mentioned at Ieva Zasimauskaitė, so perhaps that is enough? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:53, 12 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Thanks to the smart arse who added the sentence over at Ieva Zasimauskaitė it's now been reported here however other than that source there's nothing that says she's the first Hindu contestant so as such it's not going to be added, Thanks, – Davey 2010 Talk 15:59, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Just to note any sources dated before 9th May would be fine to use, Anything after that date would be useless (as they would've copied that sentence from the Metro). – Davey 2010 Talk 16:09, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks User:Davey2010, that's very well spotted. I think it also tells us quite a lot about the risks of using Metro as a source for anything? Martinevans123 (talk) 16:14, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Scoreboard section table extension
Tables in Scoreboard section presenting Jury and Televoting results are missing two important columns: 1) total of presented type of scores, and 2) a place.

For example, let's look to the first table in the Scoreboard section, representing Jury scores of the first semi-final. The reader can see Jury votes by country, but are unable to see the total Jury score. Reader should calculate the missing column as JuryScore=TotalScore-TelevotingScore in his mind. That is very inconvenient. Total Jury score is actually presented in the next table of Televoting scores, but it would be much more practical to present it in the same table.

The other useful column next to the missing Jury score would be "Place by Jury" in the table of Jury votes (and "Place by Televote" in the table of Televotes). After contest it is very interesting to see the placement of countries if only Jury or only Televoting is considered.

-- 94.244.71.239 (talk) 16:06, 13 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello. You may check differences in jury/televote rankings by expanding the tables floating to the right-hand side of the screen, in the "Scoreboard" section. In the "Semi-final 1" subsection, for example, there is a box saying just "Semi-final 1 [show]" which can be expanded. It's better to have them side-by-side rather than in different tables.
 * On the other hand, I fully support your idea of having both subtotals in both the jury and televoting tables. —    A ndreyyshore    T    C    23:34, 13 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Hello. Thanks! I haven't noticed this floating table. It solves my need to see place by Jury/Televote. Additional column can be useful for someone, but current presentation of results is OK, especially if you can see both tables side by side on a wide screen. -- 94.244.71.239 (talk) 08:04, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Times of shows
Why isn't this time of the final provided as well as the date? Also the times of the semi finals? These seem to be useful facts. I attempted to add the time of the final, but this was reverted without any explanation. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 16:56, 12 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The broadcast times have been added many times to all the contest pages by several different editors and have been persistently removed by an editor who sometimes goes by the name of WesMouse, sometimes WesleyMouse, sometimes WesWolf and sometimes WesleyWolf (and let's not get into the explicit wiki rules about editing via multiple wiki USER ID's that they flaunt), stating that as time zones are different around the world, the live start time is irrelevant. They wrote on 14 June 2016 on the 1957 page when removing the live broadcast start time "Start time not required due to different countries broadcasting and the various time zones". Like many others, I totally disagree, but we are mere mortals and we have to bow down to the superior wiki elite who own and control the wiki Eurovision pages. The live start time measured by GMT should be included in every ESC page in my very humble, unworthy, unappreciated opinion. Good luck getting the times included! 31.193.32.178 (talk) 12:39, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks for explaining. That seems to me to be a completely spurious argument. Just as for major sporting events, start times are wholly relevant. They are usually given in the locally time unless, as in this case, an official timezone is specified. If there are no explicit objections here, I will add them in. Even if there are objections, this is a matter of local consensus as far as I can see. I'll bow down to nothing, thanks. What is your response, User:Wesley Wolf? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 15:30, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Gosh aren’t you the lucky one not to get blocked for defying Wes Multi Profiles. Us mere mortals no longer dare so much as have a profile as one single edit they don’t like to a Eurovision page and if we aren’t blocked instantly then the article is locked regardless so only they and their coterie can touch it, followed by crowing about another successful block achieved and referring to us as “sorry arses”, abuse approved of by other administrators. The rest of us then have to beg and plead on talk pages for divine permission for suggested edits to be made, in explicit contradiction of Wikipedia’s mission: The free encyclopedia ANYONE can edit. According to Wes the consensus is the timing must not be included. Where us mere wiki serfs can find this consensus is a mystery known only to Wes. Good luck! 31.193.32.178 (talk) 17:30, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't hold your breath for any input from them here any time soon. Their last edit seems to have been this one on 6 Juy 2016. If they are, or have been, running sockpuppet accounts, they should be blocked indefinitely. Simple as. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:36, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * The times of the three shows have been added in the article text. Do editors feel it would also be useful to have the times in the infobox? Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:18, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I might be thus brave enough to reinstate all the broadcast start times in all 62 other articles. Or at the least the ones not locked and limited to elites. I have repeatedly - repeatedly - complained about Wes' multiple sock accounts, to no avail. They have never even received so much as an admonishment, let alone the blocks Wes so gleefully hand out and encourage. Wes also very, very quickly archives talk pages when the argument begins to go against them. See Eurovision 2016 for the best examples. Not even a tap on the wrist was handed down when Wes called editors "sorry arses". Repeatedly. I've seen editors blocked for far, far, far less. But what does anyone expect from Wikipedia? The site's reputation for bullying is now bigger than it's reputation for inaccuracy. And who'd have thought that possible? Wes is still editing. Who knows what puppet is being used this week?31.193.32.178 (talk) 19:52, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Ooh, harsh. Why not start your own Wes attack page? Martinevans123 (talk) 20:02, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * As this involves multiple ESC contests, it may be best to post at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Eurovision. --  AxG /  ✉  20:13, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Yes, it may. I quite agree. But Euro-seebs are now setting in a bit with me, alas Martinevans123 (talk) 20:22, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Another classic, snide wiki remark, supporting the bullies, belittling the victims. Well done. Keep it up.31.193.32.178 (talk) 20:52, 13 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Wow. You really have some unresolved issues here, don't you. This thread was meant to be about Eurovision showtimes? WP:AN/I for bullying sockpuppets is thataway.... Martinevans123 (talk) 21:00, 13 May 2018 (UTC)

Firstly Wesley Mouse submitted a username change at WP:CHU which was approved by admins and subsequently changed to Wesley Wolf. Therefore no sock puppet has occurred. The name change was done so legitimately and with accordance with the Wikipedia rules on changing user names, along with such action being recorded for public viewing. Secondly I left Wikipedia due to IPs such as the one above who has repeatedly attacked myself, and was noted by admins with warnings and blocks imposed to the IPs for carrying out cyber bullying. I also noted on my talk page for my reasons on leaving Wikipedia because of the high level of cyber bullying both on and off Wikipedia, which also included death threats being sent to my personal email address. The emails were escalated to WMF for their investigations. However the tolerance of such behaviour became unbearable and caused severe depression and mental health issues. So I ultimately retired from Wikipedia and allowed the bullies the "gloating rights" to feel that had achieved their personal goal to force yet another valued editor to leave Wikipedia. It is the actions of such bullies that is the primary reason why so many people no longer edit on Wikipedia, as they are the ones demonstrating WP:OWN. Wes Wolf (talk) 14:16, 14 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Furthermore it is very evident that the IP has carried out vindictive attacks against myself, by the fact they have continued to launch attacks and slurs about myself, despite my last edit being made on 6 July 2017 (almost a year on), and without any regard to me not being active nor being able to defend myself. The IP even stipulated to a question posted by an admin at WP:ANI, when they admitted to purposely posting remarks via their IP address and not being logged into their Wikipedia account - so that they can "evade being blocked for casting attacks". Correct me if I'm wrong, but that in itself is clear sock evasion not to mention avoiding scrutiny.  Wes Wolf Talk 14:51, 14 May 2018 (UTC)

Interestingly, both the winning country (Israel) and the runner-up (Cyprus) are NOT located in Europe
Could be mentioned in the article as an interesting fact) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.62.19.91 (talk) 15:30, 22 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Interesting to whom? Israel has won before. So has Azerbaijan. Australia's best result is a second place. It's not a very "interesting" nor notable fact at all. --CaptainNtheGameMaster (talk) 12:47, 27 May 2018 (UTC)


 * Also, Cyprus is a full card-carrying member of the European Union, so I think people from said country would disagree about not being European or "located in Europe". --CaptainNtheGameMaster (talk) 12:49, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

THEN RENAME THE CONTEST TO ASIAVISION! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.62.22.130 (talk) 10:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Worth reminding that what may be an "interesting fact" to one person; may not be as interesting to another. What is being suggested would constitute original research if it us not a published source. Furthermore it would breach Wikipedia's stance on avoid publishing trivial content. Also the IP should try to refrain from shouting and being uncivil towards other editors; when it is clear they were merely being helpful.  Wes Wolf Talk 21:21, 2 June 2018 (UTC)

Song title inconsistency
Why are some of the song titles written with a capital letter at the start of each word and others are not? Although I do not agree, I know it has become the norm to capitalize most words in song titles, but whatever that particular argument, it does need to be one or the other in a single article, not a mix of both. ie: "That's How You Write a Song", "When We're Old" and "Higher Ground", but then we have "O jardim", "Tu canción" and "Non mi avete fatto niente". One or the other format please. Not both 213.200.219.145 (talk) 22:30, 17 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately it is a manual of style policy that needs to be adhered. More in-depth details can be ascertained at MOS:THEMUSIC.  Wes Wolf Talk 08:17, 18 May 2018 (UTC)
 * What? Editor 213.200.219.145 is absolutely right. If Wikipedia has a rule that states song titles can be 50% upper case and 50% lower case in an article, then Wikipedia has become an even bigger joke. 46.140.201.34 (talk) 06:17, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There are language-dependent rules on capitalization in titles and Wikipedia respects them (as it should). —    A ndreyyshore    T    C    05:52, 20 May 2018 (UTC)
 * No there are not. Song titles either have a capital letter for each word, or they don't. That's How You Write a Song. Non mi avete fatto niente. There is nothing written anywhere in any language "rule" that says those two titles should be treated differently. Wikipedia using a mix of the two means nobody respects wikipedia.80.72.62.231 (talk) 16:04, 21 May 2018 (UTC)
 * There are, if you look for them, and it is Wikipedia that should respect other languages. —    A ndreyyshore    T    C    00:22, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * It is the correct punctuation style that is used for song titles. See this link which explains that all words are capitalized with exception to conjunction, and preposition words which are not. It is how all recording artists punctuate song titles. English grammar can be quite perplexing at times.  Wes Wolf Talk 20:22, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Old discussion, I know, but I think it's fine as it is. We shouldn't capitalise Portugese/French/Spanish the same way as English, because it's not how titles are generally named. -ThatJosh (talk) 12:50, 25 December 2018 (UTC)