Talk:Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance

Page move
So an anonymous wants to move this page to Evangelion 2.0, saying "Moving content back to placeholder page as "Division" is based on a now-obsolete translation of a placeholder title."

Unfortunately, he botched things and did a copy-paste move... which means we can't move over the redirect as it now has history. So we need an admin to do the move, if we want to.

Thoughts on the move, for or against? --Gwern (contribs) 18:18 18 May 2008 (GMT)
 * "Division" is not the official english title. It is only one of the possible translations, and the fact that the introduction mentions "Breaking up" is a proof of that. Since it remains the choice a contributor made at some point and not an official translation (and since there are multiple ways to translate "Ha") I think we should just retain "Evangelion: 2.0" for the title.Folken de Fanel (talk) 21:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)

Plot
I have removed the plot section as the movie has not been released. Any pre-release plot information should be sourced. zzymyn (talk) 08:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

(of course)
"Fanservice (of course)." Of course? Honestly, I found the comment funny, but isn't it a bit outside Wikipedia's guidelines?. I don't know, just saying 190.176.224.253 (talk) 21:51, 12 August 2008 (UTC) (Mahora 18:50 12/08/08)


 * I found it a bit questionable myself too, but I figured that I hadn't seen the various trailers and so perhaps it was just a quote; Gainax/Khara have always been upfront about the fanservice, anyway. (Vide the NGE TV episode previews.) --Gwern (contribs) 18:07 13 August 2008 (GMT)


 * just phrase it as a quote. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 21:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Well, is it a quote? I was just assuming there because when I was looking at the revision I didn't have time to check. --Gwern (contribs) 22:55 13 August 2008 (GMT)


 * I have seen the entire film on the internets, fansubbed, and it is a direct quote from the old episode previews. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 17:17, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

"Adams and Lilin+"
Since this is more likely to be "Adam" and "Lilith" (Biblical characters from the Garden of Eden), are we sure this wasn't a hasty misread of the screen? - Eyeresist (talk) 05:57, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Nope. It definitely says "Adams" and "Lilin+?".68.7.201.42 (talk) 09:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
 * This isn't based on after-theater reports, its' already on DVD. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 03:30, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

"Mysterious Girl"
Just throwing this out there for discussion, but has anyone else noticed a striking resemblance between the Glasses Girl and Mana Kirishima from the Japan-only PC game, Girlfriend of Steel? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.195.43.22 (talk) 18:05, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Every spinoff game had a Mary Sue type girlfriend character for Shinji. I dread that Mari will be the same. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 02:19, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

i loved mana though. anywys....cant we say she was also hinted in the movie poster as well?Haseo445 (talk) 16:39, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

Reviews & Reception
So with the release, the reviews start coming in. Let's dump'em in this section:


 * Reviews
 * http://www.otaku2.com/articleView.php?item=427
 * http://www.evageeks.org/2009/06/my-spoilerless-evangelion-2-0-review/
 * http://blog.mistakesofyouth.com/2009/06/27/evangelion-new-theatrical-version-division/
 * http://blog.mistakesofyouth.com/2009/06/27/evangelion-2-0-you-can-not-advance-spoilers/

--Gwern (contribs) 13:47 27 June 2009 (GMT)
 * Mania.com HK BR
 * Box office/reception
 * http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2009-06-29/evangelion-2.0-opens-at-no.1-with-510-million-yen
 * http://www.screendaily.com/news/box-office/asia-pacific/-evangelion-rules-the-japanese-box-office/5002949.article (Screen International)


 * Well evageeks won't pass as a reliable source so you won't be able to use it in the article. I don't know about otaku2 though. I don't know if you want to use them in the article or not, but I feel it's worth pointing out. Dandy Sephy (talk) 17:13, 28 June 2009 (UTC)


 * The details of the plot are very skewed as appearing currently in the article, having watched the final act personally. Not being fluent in Japanese, I wouldn't feel appropriate making the corrections myself, but this needs to be considered. For instance, Shinji witnesses Rei's consumption visibly, not secondhand through Mari, though they do speak and she does offer him lift on her Eva to observe. Further the lance used by Kaworu is not the Lance of Longinus.

There is a direct source available, but I am quite sure the details of obtaining it are not appropriate for this discussion board or Wikipedia on a whole. It will be widely known shortly I am sure anyhow. Antitab (talk) 02:11, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

--KrebMarkt (talk) 16:35, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
 * ANN: BR 2.22 Shelf Life DVD 2.22
 * Mania.com: BR 2.22 DVD 2.22

Funimation has no license for 2.0...yet
The information in the link has to be added to the article but I don't have time editing it in. It would be very much appreciated if someone took the time to do it. Thanks.

Funimation Adds Sengoku Basara TV Anime Series (Update 2) --҉ რ&#xF755;ɫՒ◌§ 9¤ ॐ 13:10, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

"Bethany Base"
It is not in the base in the United States that the fifth machine fought. It fought in Euro and the joint management base in Russia. It writes in the pamphlet. (221.189.75.3 (talk) 00:21, 14 July 2009 (UTC)).
 * We've been having trouble understanding that, because both English and Russian are being heard in "Bethany Base"; does the movie pamphlet give a specific location for the base? What is written in the pamphlet about the base?--Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 00:20, 15 July 2009 (UTC)

In the original and the re-dubbed english sections, they specifically refer to the base as Bethany and the area above it where the eva exploded as Acheron. CLEAR ENGLISH. your pamphlet is wrong, not to mention it can't be cited until you actually provide a copy of it. - 15.195.201.87 (talk) 03:39, 1 February 2010 (UTC) - I guess my point is, it can't be a russian area, they would be speaking another language if it werent in a western country. that's made clear by the fact that the movie producers voulentarily dubbed the first part into a non-japanese language - 15.195.201.87 (talk) 03:40, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

2.22 review
While the first movie stuck fairly closely to the TV series storyline, this movie sees things begin to diverge in some major ways, with Mari being the main beneficiary as she appears on the scene and quickly seems to take control of NERV’s direction; and to the detriment of Asuka. If you’re an Asuka fan, you’re not going to like what happens in this movie one little bit. There’s also some significant work done with Shinji, particularly on his relationship with his father, and with Rei, who shows signs here of wanting to become more than the emotionless marionette that she’s often portrayed as. Let’s start with Asuka and Mari. Mari seems to be to be a drop-in replacement for Asuka in a lot of ways – she’s feisty, determined, and has her own ideas of how the world should be going, very much like Asuka. Unlike Asuka, she’s also got the means to put her plans into action (although who’s backing her remains a mystery) and her arrival, an Eva pilot outside NERV’s control but clearly with access to their systems, means that she very quickly begins to shake things up. I like her, both because of her general personality, and because she’s a large dose of uncertainty dropped into a story that’s full of the familiar. If there’s anything so far that’s a clear sign that this version of Evangelion is going to try to be its own creature, it’s Mari. But since her ‘promotion’ to a lead role seems to come at Asuka’s expense, I’m left a little bit conflicted as to whether it’s a good thing or not. I like Asuka, dammit, and what happens to her in this movie (where she takes on a role that had previously been handed to someone else in the TV series) feels like a clear case of Anno saying “Yeah, we know people out there love her. Now let’s piss them off.”. And if that was the aim, he’s succeeded brilliantly. Away from the action and the behind-the-scenes maneuvering, though, the main thrust of this movie is Shinji and friendship: with Asuka, a relationship that quickly takes on its familiar feeling from the TV series, just as it should; with Rei, whose attempts to gather the people she cares for around her seem doomed to failure; and with his father, where the theme is clearly of one step forward (the scene at his mother’s grave, and later moments of praise) and two steps back (his father’s refusal to listen to his concerns and use the dummy plug system – a decision that, while it deals with the immediate danger of an Angel attack, also has devastating consequences at another level). ...One of the criticisms that was levelled against the first Rebuild movie was that it was all action, no character development – this movie makes up for that to a certain extent. Within the time constraints of a movie, you’re never going to be able to cover as much ground as in a 26-episode series, but there’s a good effort made here to cover as much as possible.

http://www.fandompost.com/2011/08/12/evangelion-2-22-you-can-not-advance-uk-anime-blu-ray-review/ --Gwern (contribs) 01:25 15 August 2011 (GMT)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: withdrawn — Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 10:44, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance → Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance. – If you take a look at the bottom of the Japanese film poster and on the English-language release DVD release cover, there is a full stop at the end of the title. This is part of the title and should be incorporated in the title here.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 05:59, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Comment it says "Evangelion: 2.22 ..." not "2.0" further, which is the WP:COMMONNAME? WP:OFFICIALNAME and all that, further WP:Use English, since this has been licensed and released in English-language markets in an English-language edition. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 07:45, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * 2.22 is the name for the extended edition. And this is from the US Amazon.com store where "You Can (Not) Advance." (with the full stop) is on the cover, which is the defining point for which I am seeking to move the page. Also the English name in all markets is "You Can (Not) Advance." (which comes from the Japanese edition's English language title).— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 07:48, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * IMDB has no full stop, nor the Anime News Network, nor Funimation, nor Box Office Mojo, nor Rotten Tomatoes. Remember WP:OFFICIALNAME and WP:COMMONNAME -- common names are preferred over official names. Also, your evidence shows an extended edition release, was there a standard edition release into the English marketplace? If not, it should use 2.22 ; 76.65.128.132 (talk) 08:02, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The extended edition release refers only to the home media. The film itself is always 2.0. Also, I believe that everyone has missed that full stop at the end of the title.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 08:16, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Therefore the WP:COMMONNAME does not contain a fullstop. 76.65.128.132 (talk) 08:24, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * That seems to be your thought on the matter. This title does appear in reliable sources. However, the English media seems to have not noticed it.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 08:42, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose, the full stop is surely just used on the cover and on the poster but would look totally weird and uncalled for in a running text about the movie. I think it is not intended to be part of the movie title, it is just written like that on the cover and on the poster, like when you put a full stop at the end of a sentence. Voice (SWE) (talk) 10:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * It is entirely uncommon to have punctuation like that at the end of a title unless it was actually part of the title. The promotional materials and various media releases all feature that full stop at the end of the film's title, and this has been carried over into the American, British, and other language releases of the film. It is obviously there for a reason, and that reason is that it is part of the title.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 10:41, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Full stop
It is quite clear that these pages are not likely to be moved any time in the future. I was not aware that this would be such an unpopular proposal, and one that would garner an unnecessarily large amount of bad faith from Allen4names. However, it is still clear that the full stop at the end of the titles of these films, as they appear on the promotional materials and home media releases is a stylistic point which should very likely be brought up in the lead in some fashion. There would be no other reason for all of the artistic material regarding the films features this full stop at the end of the subtitle ("You Are (Not) Alone.", "You Can (Not) Advance.", "You Can (Not) Redo."). If these were not full stops but exclamation points or question marks there would obviously be no confusion or vitriol over my actions yesterday.

Right now, all three of the Rebuild movies' pages have the stylized form (which I am regrettably conceding in calling the form with the full stop at the end of the subtitle as such) in the articles' ledes and infoboxes. It is my personal opinion that it is a waste of space to have a title twice in a row just to state that one form with a slightly different punctuation set or capitalization scheme or other such variation is the stylized form, so I am proposing that we keep the full stops in the titles in the lead section of the articles, but omit it from the article title as a compromise, as all this mess was started when, a newbie, made me realize that the full stop existed in the title logo.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 10:57, 1 January 2012 (UTC)


 * ...because they look like sentences. The word is not spelled "sentences." just because you can find a poster with a period conjoined with the usual spelling. You need to find examples where the title is used in the middle of a natural sentence and so the period is deliberately intended and clearly part of the title, before you can even start making the case to move the articles to names used by noone except you in the Anglophone world. --Gwern (contribs) 15:23 1 January 2012 (GMT)
 * I am not seeking to move the pages any more. I believe I said that pretty clearly. What I am saying is that the full stop at the end of the titles is now a stylization in Japan, and we should include that in the articles. I am well aware that no one has reported the films' titles as (example) "Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance. is...", but that does not mean we cannot say that "Evangelion: 2.0 You Can (Not) Advance." is a stylized form, because this is the form that appears on all of the movie posters, the DVDs, the Blu-rays, etc. The "You Are (Not) Alone." here does not look like a sentence, Gwern. I am not going to be able to find sources for these, because they do not use the English titles in Japan outside of the media (where the stylization originates), and it clearly does not exist in the English language sources as was made plainly evident.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 20:26, 1 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Please note that I will be checking the citation titles from time to time. I found a few that had the full stop when the corresponding reference did not. – Allen4names 02:48, 2 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I tried to go back and just add it to the lead and the infobox. My mistake.— Ryulong ( 竜龙 ) 03:19, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Title
I thought it was called Rebuild of Evangelion 2.22: You Can (Not) Advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.26.194.190 (talk) 23:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Rebuild of Evangelion 2.0: You Shall (Not) Pass! 108.54.20.136 (talk) 00:46, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Plot rewrite
The plot section is getting over-long and has long exceeded 700 words limit. It is not very well written. Its causality is not in proper order, placing results before causes, or switching between this and that, even in the middle of a sentence. This creates WTF moments when readers run into something that happens for no reason, only to discover the reason in the next sentence. Some sentences run-on, are confusing, and hard to comprehend. Many contain modifier clauses within modifier clauses, use terms that only fans will understand. The section also captures the battle at the climax almost shot by shot. Things must go. I'll try to rewrite it here. Opinions are appreciated.

---

The resuscitated skeleton of the Third Angel escapes its confinement and tries to break out of NERV's arctic Bethany Base. Mari Illustrious Makinami, a new pilot, launches in Provisional Unit-05 and destroys the Angel by self-destructing Unit-05 and safely ejecting at the last moment.

Meanwhile, Shinji Ikari and his father Gendo visit Yui's grave. Shortly after, the Seventh Angel attacks, but it is dispatched in minutes by the newly arrived Unit-02 and its headstrong pilot, Asuka Langley Shikinami.

In the aftermath, Chief Inspector Ryoji Kaji delivers to Gendo a suitcase containing an object called the "Key of Nebuchadnezzar" and notes that the destruction of Unit-05 went as planned. Gendo and Kozo Fuyutsuki then visit Tabgha Base on the Moon to view the construction of Evangelion Mark.06. Although they are denied landing, they confirm that its construction is different from the other EVAs, and briefly see Kaworu Nagisa sitting in hard vacuum without spacesuit, on Mark 06’s finger.

In Gendo's absence, the Eighth Angel attacks Tokyo-3. Shinji, Asuka, and Rei kill the Eighth Angel in a devised haphazard plan by Misato Katsuragi. Both Unit-00 and Unit-01 are damaged, but SEELE orders only the latter repaired.

In an attempt to heal the relationship between Gendo and Shinji, Rei prepares a dinner party. Mari arrives in Tokyo-3 by parachute, landing on Shinji. Later, Evangelion Unit-04 and NERV's U.S. branch are destroyed during an experiment, prompting the U.S. government to send the completed Unit-03 to Tokyo-3. Due to an agreement that no nation is allowed to possess more than three functioning Evangelions at a time, NERV seals away Unit-02.

NERV tests the newly arrived Unit-03 on the same day as Rei’s dinner party, so Asuka volunteers to take Rei’s place as the test pilot. Once Asuka activates Unit-03, the Ninth Angel possesses the EVA and goes on a rampage. Shinji is ordered to pilot Unit-01 to fight it, but he refuses for fear of harming Asuka, who is still trapped inside. Gendo orders the activation of the dummy system, which makes the EVA autonomous. The autonomous Unit-01 to savagely destroy Unit-02, crushing the cockpit. Distraught over his father's cold decision, Shinji leaves NERV.

Asuka survives, but is grievously injured and placed in quarantine for fear of mental contamination by the Angel. Shinji heads out of the city, but the Tenth Angel attacks, and he has to flee to an emergency shelter. Gendo fails to activate Unit-01 without Shinji, so Mari hijacks Unit-02 and heads out to fight the Angel alone. She removes the Unit-02's restraints and fights the Angel, but before she could significantly harm it, the Angel defeats Unit-02. Rei's joins the fight with the damage Unit-00 and charges at the Angel with a missile. The missile detonates but fails to destroy the Angel.

The Angel consumes Unit-00 and integrates it to its own body. Upon seeing Rei consumed with Unit-00, Shinji rushes to Gendo and asks to pilot Unit-01 again. The Angel uses its new body to bypass NERV’s defense, and Shinji fends it off, but before he can defeat the Angel, Unit-01 runs out of power and shuts down.

Unit-01 reactivates in berserk mode, in response to Shinji’s rage and determination to save Rei. It easily takes down the Angel, and Shinji uses the unit to reach inside the Angel’s core to search for Rei. Unit-01 then starts transcending its physical limit to grant Shinji’s wish. Inside the cockpit, which transcends the law of physics, Shinji sees Rei floating alone under a liquid-like surface. He pulls her out of the liquid into his cockpit. In the same moment, Unit-01 pulls Unit-00's core out of the Angel’s.

The Angel explodes, and its remains, along with Unit-00's core, are absorbed into Unit-01, fusing them all into one being. Unit-01 then sprouts giant wings of light, and Misato, who has been watching the battle, sees that they are identical to the ones she saw during Second Impact fifteen years ago. Ritsuko notes that the EVA has become as a divine being, triggering the Third Impact and the Apocalypse.

In a post-credits scene, the Lance of Longinus shoots down the Earth’s atmosphere and impales Unit-01 in the middle of its apotheosis, neutralizing it and stopping the Third Impact. Kaworu then descends from the Moon in Mark.06, saying that this time, he will make Shinji happy.

--- What do you guys think of this new attempt? Anthonydraco (talk) 14:49, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

On second thought, this talk page seems dead. I'll proceed to overhauling it now. Anthonydraco (talk) 16:06, 7 November 2012 (UTC)

Lance in post-credit scenes
That's the Lance of Cassius, not Longinus. SomeRandomAnon (talk) 03:23, 25 December 2012 (UTC)

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