Talk:Evangelos Marinakis

Some possible references
Here are some references which may be useful to improve this article:
 * 1) http://www.capitalpplp.com/overview.cfm
 * 2) http://in.reuters.com/finance/stocks/officerProfile?symbol=CPLP.O&officerId=979402
 * 3) http://shipping.capitallink.com/interviews/2010/MarinakisInterview032210.pdf
 * 4) http://www.maritime-studies.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=419:capital-productsevangelos-marinakis&catid=54:epikairotita&Itemid=189&lang=en
 * 5) http://www.forbes.com/profile/evangelos-marinakis/
 * 6) http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/person.asp?personId=23089967&privcapId=22687956&previousCapId=33275706&previousTitle=CAPITAL%20PRODUCT%20PARTNERS%20LP
 * 7) http://www.capitalship.gr/
 * 8) http://books.informa.com.au/2009_GSA/#/14/
 * 9) http://books.informa.com.au/2010_GSA/#/42/
 * 10) http://www.lloydslist.com/ll/news/top100/article385125.ece
 * 11) http://greece.greekreporter.com/2012/06/27/greek-ship-owners-to-make-greece-debt-free/
 * 12) http://shipping.capitallink.com/interviews/2010/MarinakisInterview032210.pdf
 * 13) http://www.capitalship.gr/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=55&Itemid=23&lang=en
 * 14) http://www.olympiacos.org/en/member/1634/evangelos-marinakis

These were passed along to me by someone else, and I make no guarantees as to their appropriateness or usefulness. I have not checked any of them. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 05:55, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Proposed rewrite
This proposed rewrite was also forwarded to me by the same person who provided the references, above. Please comment on it and incorporate any of it you wish to include.

The superscript notes in the above suggestion refer to the list of links in the section above (#15 = "Greek league chief Vangelis Marinakis linked to corruption scandal - ESPN". Espn.go.com. 2011-06-24. Retrieved 2012-02-22.). While I think there is some useful information in the above suggested rewrite, I also think it is written with too much marketing-speak (it sounds like an official short bio), so anything used will need to be changed to conform with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. ··· 日本穣 ? · 投稿  · Talk to Nihonjoe ·  Join WP Japan ! 04:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Unjustified revert
Dear Nikolaos Fanaris, i just noticed that a series of edits were reverted by you without providing any explanation (WP:REVEXP). So I will revert your edit and I hope you will explain your reverting here.--SakuraF1986 (talk) 12:20, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

User:NikolaosFanaris would you like to justify your reverts?--SakuraF1986 (talk) 12:11, 28 April 2022 (UTC)


 * Avoid removing cited content without consensus. I understand you are a new user but it does not make any sense to remove such a big portion of text without justifying its removal - especially when it comes to the bombing allegations, which is cited and well-developed. Cheers. NikolaosFanaris (talk) 11:28, 29 April 2022 (UTC)


 * QFirst of all I added some new content with reliable sources and you never justified why you had removed them.
 * Second of all the article contains unnecessary details for a legal case that ended in acquittal for Marinakis. These details are coming from the Koreas report, which was the preliminary inquire of legal case. As you might know in Greece the criminal process comprises two basic stages: 1) Pre-trial proceedings (preliminary inquiry, main investigation of offences, process of indictment), which are non-public and non-adversarial, and 2) trial proceedings, which are public, oral and moderately adversarial. So the majority of the information that exist in article are coming from the preliminary inquiry, not even from the main investigation (ανάκριση). As regarding the incident of bombing it's quite important to highlight that bombing was initially related with the The 2015 Greek football scandal and it was one of the accusations (along with Aiding and abetting blackmailing, Fraud etc) that Marinakis was charged by the prosecutor in preliminary inquiry. That's why I merged (NOT REMOVED) the subheadings of "bombing" with "sports", which includes the 2015 Greek football scandal. Even so the accusation of bombing was dropped without being brought to a trial according to the decision of the council of judges and the prosecutor Daskalopoulos. So it's quite a paradox that an accusation which had been dropped by the judges and the prosecutor in pre-trial proceeding, has a whole subheading (!) and I am pretty sure that does not apply with the policy about Biographies of living persons (it is not Wikipedia's job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives).
 * Also searching at history of the article, I saw that the subheading of bombing was added a few months ago by User:Mightberightorwrong, who has been blocked by sysops as puppet of Glucken123. So where is the consensus?

":Closing all this: what's the problem with merging of subheadings and removal unnecessary details (not the information about the bombing itself)?--Diu (talk) 12:24, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

Nottingham forest coach
Wouldn’t it be a proud moment for the supporters of Nottingham Forest to see the number plate C10UGH displayed on the team coach What a way to remember the best coach they ever had 86.8.107.143 (talk) 10:48, 3 May 2022 (UTC)

page protection
Hello, Looking at the page history it seems this page is in need of a protection lock to help with the spam edits in addition to aiding in creating a more well structured and harmonised vision for the page info and style. I will request this now. Connorcp (talk) 11:23, 15 August 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:07, 1 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Evangelos-Marinakis.jpg

Oligarch and Introduction
According to Biographies of living persons "Do not label people with contentious labels, loaded language, or terms that lack precision, unless a person is commonly described that way in reliable sources. Instead use clear, direct language and let facts alone do the talking". As I said in my edit summary "just the fact that he has been labeled as oligarch by three journalists does not imply that this term is widely used and does not justify the inclusion of this contentious label in the introduction of the article". Based on that I removed the label but ip 80.46.66.176 reverted my edit citing that "Sources are reliable and seem to appropriately back the claim" and adding three more from the same journalist (so in total 4 journalists from 8 articles). Still, I don't think that Marinakis is commonly described as oligarch and just citting four journalists (from reliable sources no doubt) does not prove your argument.--SportsGreece (talk) 16:05, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

It is a widely used label for several shipping tycoons involved in controversial activities and accusations of criminal behaviour. You believe he should not be described as an oligarch, but the facts suggest otherwise. I look forward to further contributions to this discussion. Prominent media outlets have described him as an oligarch, and there is no issue with using this label in accordance with Biographies of living persons. 80.46.66.176 (talk) 16:22, 20 May 2024 (UTC)


 * Just to clarify that when you say "facts", you mean four journalists. Furthermore, your persistence on maintaining this label in the introduction is unjustified. According to Manual of Style/Biography "The lead section should summarise with due weight the life and works of the person. When writing about controversies in the lead section of a biography, relevant material should neither be suppressed nor allowed to overwhelm: always pay scrupulous attention to reliable sources, and make sure the lead correctly reflects the entirety of the article. Write clinically, and let the facts speak for themselves. These concerns are especially pressing for biographies of living persons.". Since I have not anything else to contribute, I will also wait for other users to offer their thoughts. SportsGreece (talk) 16:43, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * By "facts," I mean an evidence-based discussion focusing on individuals notoriously involved in the aforementioned activities. Based on your calculations, I see that you have incorrectly presented the number of journalists and analysts. They are six: Kerin Hope from the Financial Times, Alexander Clapp for the New York Times, Rory Smith from the New York Times, Daniel Taylor for The Athletic, Paul Taylor for The Athletic, and George Simms for the iNewspaper. I can provide more examples to further substantiate my claim that Marinakis is indeed presented as an oligarch. He controls numerous media outlets, companies, and football clubs, while also being a politician. This conclusion is based on logic and facts. Also, Roman Abramovich and Ivan Savvidis are both described as oligarchs. Nothing stops from labelling someone with a term that is already used widely in press. 80.46.66.176 (talk) 16:50, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
 * 80.46.66.176: You are right as regarding the number of journalists, my fault. In other respects your conclusion is based on your logic and on limited sources, some of them are not reliable (e.g. statements from political parties). Also, you have failed to provide arguments regarding the inclusion of the label in the introduction of the article, which is against Manual of Style/Biography. I will wait for other users to contribute since there is no consensus. Thanks for the discussion anyway.--SportsGreece (talk) 09:29, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * It is supported by a long list of reliable sources, mentioned above. The term 'oligarchy' refers to a state of monopoly achieved by individuals through controlling or owning parts of a state, making them sole players with significant power and influence. If anyone believes this is an issue, despite the backing, let's discuss it. So far, no arguments have been presented against it, and Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons does not apply to this case. Also, I just saw that you added a need for citation on Savvidis page, which is really funny. Protagon.gr is a reliable source, but the Financial Times isn't? 80.46.66.176 (talk) 10:14, 21 May 2024 (UTC)
 * So far, you have presented some sources (some of them are reliable, not all of them) that use the term "oligarch". That doesn't prove that the term is widely used. And of course you hadn't justified why the label has to be in introduction. SportsGreece (talk) 12:17, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I can't keep going back and forth on this. So far, you have provided no credible arguments against the term, backed by reliable sources. That's the situation. If others come in and disagree with the term, we can continue this debate. Your use of English doesn't help, as I'm not sure what you're trying to imply. 80.46.66.176 (talk) 15:32, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
 * You are not obliged to keep replying to me. On the other hand allow me to complain since you have not substantiated 1) the wide use of the label "oligarch" and 2) your persistence to keep the label "oligarch" in the introduction of the article and not mention it in the article body. SportsGreece (talk) 11:50, 26 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I have explained six times that numerous publications refer to Marinakis as a Greek oligarch due to his activities. These publications confirm the term's global usage. Additionally, the term is commonly used in similar cases of economic oligarchy. I can provide sources, but since nobody has participated in the dialogue, this seems like an attempt to remove the label without seeking consensus. If others agree that the term violates any rules, then perhaps we can reconsider. However, so far, your only argument is that "oligarch" violates BLP, which you have not explained. If you have time, please explain your position and stop accusing others of not backing theirs, as I have done so multiple times now. 92.40.200.82 (talk) 09:49, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

I would agree that the disputed sentence should not be in the introduction no matter how many citations it has because of the particular policy about BLP. D.S. Lioness (talk) 01:03, 10 July 2024 (UTC)


 * All mainstream international sources appear to refer to him as an oligarch. There are articles about economic oligarchs in WP, so seek consensus before removing. Michalis1994 (talk) 09:40, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ... The notability of the article's subject is usually established in the first few sentences. As in the body of the article itself, the emphasis given to material in the lead should roughly reflect its importance to the topic, according to reliable, published sources. Apart from basic facts, significant information should not appear in the lead if it is not covered in the remainder of the article. There is no other section of the article dealing with the claim. D.S. Lioness (talk) 16:42, 13 July 2024 (UTC)
 * The paragraph you added contains vague accusations against him. You accuse him of involving in corruption and organised crime (! ! !) without specifying anything. Meanwhile Marinakis has been acquitted of all charges and this is nowhere to be seen. Either you need to get more involved and be specific or if you don't want to remove the paragraph and let it stay as it is in the introduction. It's much worse now. At least the introduction refers to two specific accusations. D.S. Lioness (talk) 01:06, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * By the way, DIEM 25 article is totally unreliable source due to bias and the rival between Griogoriadis and Marinakis. D.S. Lioness (talk) 01:20, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * All is cited below in the section about drug smuggling and match fixing. Michalis1994 (talk) 11:40, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
 * these are accusations that have been proven false. the introduction you have posted seems to consider them valid. D.S. Lioness (talk) 16:18, 14 July 2024 (UTC)