Talk:Everywhere at the End of Time/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: DMT biscuit (talk · contribs) 10:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

For the sake of transparency: I am a fan of this album and considered it to be one of my [https://twitter.com/joe_quinnell/status/1374489477700186116?s=20. favourites.] DMT biscuit (talk) 10:07, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Comments to be added.

Sourcing
Not to be harsh but this is bad. There appear to be numerous instances of self-published sources, including from Kirby, vendor and e-commerce sources and student media which appear to amount to WP:Puffery.

Instances of vendor and e-commerce sources/self-published sources from Kirby and adjacent artists

 * Forced Exposure
 * Bandcamp — Bandcamp Daily is excluded and is reliable
 * Boomkat
 * Flur Discos

These can be permittable in small quantities, but, their excess isn't.

Instances of student media

 * The Daily Utah Chronicle
 * The Daily Campus
 * The Blue & Gold
 * DGN Omega
 * Varsity

Instances of self-published sources
What makes any of the following sources reliable?
 * Spectrum Culture
 * SputnikMusic
 * Fluid Radio
 * Dead End Follies
 * Entropy
 * No Wave
 * "His Orchestra, Mantovani — Copyright violation that should be removed per WP:VIDEOREF. The text it relates to is also original research.
 * Betreutes Proggen
 * La Gramola de Keith
 * Raven Sings the Blues
 * Indie Style
 * The Daily Campus

Prose
This is a bit difficult to assess, presently, as I hope you'll remove the text related to the unreliable sources. Still, I can say the quote boxes coupled with the infoboxes are very obtrusive, constitute an overuse and perhaps violate copyright.

Orginal research

 * Modern classical is listed in the infoboxes but isn't mentioned in-line text.
 * Similarly, I've added cn tags to some of the soundbites as their captions don't match the in-line text.

Images
I assume you got the picture of Seal from [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVmuE99Hxyk. this video]. However, this isn't listed under creative commons and you falsely uploaded it as your own work which would violate creative commons requirement. If I am wrong please

Board coverage
This article highlights material that is overly trivial. For example, the Minecraft rendition, unless mentioned by reliable sources, shouldn't be included.

Conclusion
Unfortunately, considering the problems at hand I'm electing to fail the article. Once these highlighted issues have been dealt with, feel free to re-uploaded the article and you can personally contact me if you so wish. DMT biscuit (talk) 13:38, 14 April 2021 (UTC)


 * No need to have a fear of being harsh. In various instances, being harsh is good. The more people point out your errors, the more you learn with it. Everybody was like this at some point: putting unreliable sources all over their articles. I saw your most recent FA, A Crow Looked at Me, along with other FAs/GAs, and I kind of tried to correct possible errors of this article as I saw other reviews. Feel free to be harsher than the confusion and horror of Stage 4. I'll remove those student sources, original research text, the trivial info, and the vendor sources (some of the vendor sources only exist to promote the album, such as the Boomkat ones).
 * Seal's photo, however, is mine; it seems similar but I just took it near where they were filming. Besides, when actively looking, I couldn't find any timestamp of the video that matched my photo; this Google IMG Search link should show the exhibition video, if it was from the video, but it doesn't (when searched, it shows "woolen" for some reason). It was on an old smartphone of mine for some time and I have not found much use for it until now, since there was no photo of Ivan Seal on Commons. I don't know why you finished that sentence with "please" but ok.
 * Thank you for this response and for clarifying the image. I intended to say 'If I am wrong, please say. ' It must have escaped my mind, which is quite ironic—I must have forgotten forgetting :)


 * RE: Your rationale: Spectrum Culture and Sputnikmusic's rationales are sufficient for GA criteria. If we can't conclude that Fluid Radio undergoes the same fact-checking it's best to err on the side of caution. Dead End Follies and No Wave being "powered" through Squarespace and Wordpress mean that those are the generic hosting sites. The websites aren't influenced or affiliated by them. Entropy and No Wave should be removed per WP:BLOGS. Agree with you on RSTB. If we can't conclude the reliability of La Gramola de Keith or IndieStyle than we should again err on the side of caution. Thank you for providing detailed responses; it's nice to see a passionate editor. DMT biscuit (talk) 16:00, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * An update is that Betreutes Proggen is reliable, and has a lot of info about the styles of each individual album. There's this page that shows various writers they have; do a quick CTRL+F for the word "editor" [https://translate.google.com.br/?sl=auto&tl=en&text=Carsten%20Agthe%20(CA)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Interviews%20(u.a.%20eclipsed).%0A%0AMonika%20Baus%20(MB)%3A%20Bühnenfotografie%2C%20Festival-%20und%20Konzertberichte%20(artrockpics.com).%0A%0ATobias%20Berk%20(TB)%3A%20Bühnenfotografie.%0A%0AMichael%20Büttgen%20(MBü)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Konzertberichte%20(u.%20a.%20BBS%2C%20Die%20%5Bprogrock-dt%5D-Show).%0A%0ALutz%20Diehl%20(LD)%3A%20Bühnenfotografie%20(Progrockfoto.de).%0A%0AWolfram%20Ehrhardt%20(WE)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Konzert-%20u.%20Reiseberichte%20(u.%20a.%20Empire%20Music%2C%20Progressive%20Newsletter%3B%20ex-BBS).%0A%0AAndré%20Fedorow%20(AF)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Interviews%2C%20progressiver%20Musiker.%0A%0ABenjamin%20Feiner%20(BF)%3A%20Rezensionen%20(Bennis%20Autorenseite%20auf%20FB).%0A%0AChristoph%20Firmenich%20(CF)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Konzert-%20und%20Festivalberichte%2C%20%23ProgStats.%0A%0AFlorian%20Fischer%20(flohfish%2C%20FF)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Konzertberichte%2C%20Tour-%20und%20Festivaldaten.%0A%0ARaphael%20Lukas%20Genovese%20(RG)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20%23ReleaseCorner%2C%20Konzert-%20und%20Festivalberichte%20(Raphaels%20Blog)%0A%0ASascha%20Glück%20(SG)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Interviews%20(Ex-Whiskey-Soda.de).%0A%0AAnke%20Grohl%20(AG)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Schlussredaktion.%0A%0AKlaus%20Heuschkel%20(KH)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Konzertberichte%2C%20News.%0A%0ADieter%20Hoffmann%20(DH)%3A%20%23VinylCorner%2C%20Interviews%2C%20Rezensionen%2C%20Konzertberichte%2C%20News.%0A%0AAndrew%20Ilms%20(AI)%3A%20Konzertberichte%2C%20Bühnenfotografie%2C%20Rezensionen.%0A%0AGilles%20Iachelini%20(GI)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Interviews.%0A%0AHenrik%20Kropp%20(HK)%3A%20Interviews%2C%20Rezensionen%2C%20Bühnenfotografie.%0A%0AJürgen%20Meurer%20(JM)%3A%20stellv.%20Chefred.%2C%20Rezensionen%2C%20News%2C%20Interviews%2C%20Schlussredaktion%20(u.%20a.%20BBS%2C%20Empire%20Music%2C%20Progressive%20Newsletter).%0A%0AKlaus%20Reckert%20(KR)%3A%20Chefred.%2C%20Konzertberichte%2C%20News%2C%20Gewinnspiele%2C%20Tour-%20und%20Festivaldaten%2C%20Interviews%2C%20Rezensionen%2C%20Schlussredaktion.%20Außerdem%3A%20Anzeigen%2C%20booknerds.de%20(on%20hold).%20Ehemals%3A%20Progressive%20Newsletter%2C%20Ex-Classic%20Rock%20(Print)%2C%20Gaesteliste.de%2C%20Ex-MINT%20(Print)%2C%20Ex-PopFrontal.%0A%0AHorst-Werner%20Riedel%20(HR)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Konzert-%20und%20Festivalberichte%20(u.a.%20Empire%20Music).%0A%0ATimo%20Riedel%20(TR)%3A%20Bühnenfotografie.%0A%0APhilipp%20Röttgers%20(PR)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Interviews%2C%20Bühnenfotografie%20(u.a.%20Intro%20(R.I.P.)%2C%20Booknerds%2C%20DPRP).%0A%0AKristian%20Selm%20(KS)%3A%20Rezensionen%2C%20Admin%2FWebmaster%2C%20stellv.%20Chefred.%20(Kristian%20war%20u.a.%20Chefred.%20des%202014%20eingestellten%20Progressive%20Newsletter%20(Print)).%0A%0AAußerdem%20Gastautoren%20und%20Ex-Betreuer%3A%20Dario%20Albrecht%20(DA)%2C%20Frank%20Bender%20(FB)%2C%20Klaus%20Bornemann%20(KB)%2C%20Arne%20Caspari%20(AC)%2C%20Joan%20Degener%20(JD)%2C%20Mathias%20Diehl%20(MD)%2C%20Annika%20Dormeyer%20(AD)%2C%20Raimond%20Fischbach%20(RF)%2C%20Georg%20Hasche%20(GH)%2C%20Artem%20Lauk%20(AL)%2C%20Wolfgang%20Merx%20(WM)%2C%20Dominik%20Nüse-Lorenz%20(DNL)%2C%20Maria%20Ortner%20(MO)%2C%20Chris%20Popp%20(CP)%2C%20Markus%20Scharpey%20(MS)%2C%20Nils%20S.%20(NS)%2C%20Detlev%20Schmidt%20(DS)%2C%20Tim%20Stecher%20(TS)%2C%20Patric%20Sulz%20(PS)%2C%20Madeleine%20Wegner%20(MW)%2C%20Jürgen%20Wissing%20(JW)%2C%20Deborah%20Wisskirchen%20(DW).%0A%0AUnd%20natürlich%20die%20Redaktionsobermot…%2C%20sorry%2C%20..miezen%3A%20Sofie%20%26%20Selma!&op=translate here] and you can see a lot of em. There's at least three different editors, which I think is enough. And if the top editorial is two cats, then the source is clearly reliable :) ~ Wetrorave (talk) 01:25, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Now, this is the part that interested me the most:
 * User-generated sources That was a concerning part for some time. The article previously had a LOT of TV Tropes sources, which I removed as obvious WP:USERG. But some of those you've mentioned are reliable. For instance:
 * Spectrum Culture has an editorial team, as seen here.
 * Sputnikmusic is a reliable source, as shown on WP:ALBUMS/SOURCES, but only for reviews done by the staff; and the review I think you are referring to, this Stage 4 one, is done by a staff member
 * As shown on its main page, when you scroll down enough, you can see that Fluid Radio is, apparently, a WP:NEWSBLOG of The Wire. I'm not sure if they go through the normal fact-checking process that The Wire does, as the aforementioned WP:NEWSBLOG shows, so this one might not be reliable. In this case, I'll happily remove info sourced by it.
 * Dead End Follies is "powered by SquareSpace," as seen on the bottom of its about page. I'll happily remove info sourced by it as well.
 * Entropy is most likely a blog as well. It uses Disqus for comments, and the description of Beach Sloth is "Beach Sloth blogs hard."
 * No Wave is a blog, as seen in the website's "About" FB section.
 * Betreutes Proggen is powered by Wordpress, as seen here.
 * I'm not sure about La Gramola de Keith, as it says the name "magazine" on the bottom of its main page but I wasn't able to find much more than that.
 * About Raven Sings the Blues, it says here that only one person maintains; unreliable as well.
 * Not sure about IndieStyle. Looked through their page and it doesn't seem to be unreliable but it also doesn't seem to be reliable. I don't know.
 * In conclusion, yes. The article still is a long way to go in order to reach GA. But this is good, this means I'll work better on the article. Wetrorave (talk) 15:37, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
 * Additionally, the Forced Exposure source is only mentioned once in the article, in the "Background" section. It isn't excessive; the other ones are, however.
 * ~ Wetrorave (talk) 15:43, 14 April 2021 (UTC)