Talk:Evesham/Archive 1

Schools
I don't think that "...a defintive degeneration from Evesham High students..." is either the sort of comment expected of an encyclopedia or a good use of English. And that's aside from the aroma of trivial point-scoring.
 * Agree I think much of the section on schools is not of an encyclopedic standard and is as you wrote is trivial point-scoring. I feel this section would benefit from a re-write. --DonBarton 21:42, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Agree Agree entirely, I've been meaning to tackle this myself for some time but not got round to it (not promising I will) Jjasi 12:19, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
 * OK - I've attempted a total re-write of the schools bit to make it less subjective. Anyone know when Four Pools was opened?  Anyone know when Evesham College opened?  Jjasi 21:15, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

Since someone seems determined to bring in subjective comparisons of PH & EH results I've looked up the recent league tables and contrary to what keeps being posted - that EH now outperforms PH academically - the tables show that on all three measures (GCSE, Value Added and A/AS) that the opposite is true. . Jjasi 09:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The edits by an unregistered user (or possibly users) who keep stating in direct contradiction of the facts that Evesham High School outperforms Prince Henry's academically continue (they have also introduced other factual errors recently). Despite adding comments to the section asking anyone wishing to post such a view to visit this page, enter into discussion and provide their evidence they have not done so and the latest edit on the subject was just pure vandalism. As a result I suggest we lock the page against unregistered user edits for a few days and see if this vandal goes away. Jjasi 13:36, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Have just requested the page be semi-protected (edits restricted to registered users) Jjasi 13:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Cleaning up
This article still has no citations (for a long time now) and those tagged mentions may be deleted. I haven't edited anything, as to do so would cut it down to a stub. Please see the Worcestershire project banner above to enlist some help in improving this article. --Kudpung (talk) 19:25, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Some editing done
I have now done some basic rewriting. The original article was written in good faith, but has been tagged for lack  of required information. and lack of encyclopedic tone. This is in no way intended as a criticism, and should be regarded as flagging of areas that need attention, failing  which, the article may  have to be cut significantly. Worcestershire Wikipedians may be able to help  improve this article. --Kudpung (talk) 04:55, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Last call for Evesham
Evesham is an important  town in  Worcestershire. The article needs seriously bringing  up  to Wikipedia standards. If no contributors can help, this will generally  involve a rewrite by  a project  editor, retaining only  the information  that  can  be reliably  sourced according  to Wikipedia policy. If you have local  knowledge that  can  be reliably  sourced and verified, please go  ahead and improve the article. Do remember to add a summary  to  any  edits.--Kudpung (talk) 12:53, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Arts Centre
I've merged in the Arts Centre article, and left a redirect there. There are three reference URLs from the original article, placed as hidden comments. If they are useful, please add them to the text here. GyroMagician (talk) 17:35, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

Farmers market
I'm pretty sure Evesham has a regular farmers market. Does anyone have any details? It seems relevant, in a market-gardening region. I'd like to add a subsection under culture, if it exists. GyroMagician (talk) 02:34, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Wrathchild
I have removed this from the list of notable people. Firstly, it's a band and not person. Secondly the this glamrock/metal revival band had no notable success with  their music and disbnded already in 1989. Finally, none of the group members continued to make music in any known bands or to  make a solo career. The cited website was made by a former fan, and has been  since taken down. (404). --Kudpung (talk) 20:32, 26 September 2010 (UTC)


 * They had some success in their day - I remember them (not that that makes them notable by itself!). You raise an interesting point that a band are not a person. I don't know what the accepted norm is here? Maybe we should delete Wrathchild, The Photos and Satans Rats on this basis? Maybe they should all go anyway, based on lack of notability (rather than fame)? GyroMagician (talk) 19:59, 2 October 2010 (UTC)


 * I had never heard of them, but  I  had stopped playing  in  bands in  Worcestershire by 1968, and left the country  for good in  the early  70s. I'm  not  worried about  their article in  the Wikipedia -  bands seem  to  get  away  with  murder as far as our policies are concerned, and I  tend to  stay  away  from  music articles when scouring  for things to  improve or delete. I  don't  think  the Evesham article would benefit from  a mention of this really  insignificant  local band that  never made it  to  the charts. --Kudpung (talk) 04:52, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Demographics
Should any of the cited pages be down or no longer avalabe, this PDF on the Worcs CC site contains the full town profile: http://worcestershire.whub.org.uk/cms/pdf/Evesham_Town_Profile.pdf --Kudpung (talk) 21:57, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Cinema
So is the Regal open now? From the website it looks like it's up-and-running, but I didn't see an opening announcement, so I'm not sure. GyroMagician (talk) 10:29, 27 September 2010 (UTC)


 * Very much  so! Reopened in  Dec 09. page updated.--Kudpung (talk) 04:38, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Possible Good Article WP:GAC
All it needs is some info  on  demographics, some  local  political  history (without  of course a tedeitous list  of every  town councillor), a compass, and a short section on  transport. I'll ask Wotnow if he can do the honours with  the refs, and Nev1 if he can give it  a once-over. in the menartime I'll run  the link check  tool. Otherwise, the prose is more or less OK, the references look  sufficient  in  quantity, and all  the other GAC criteria seem  to  have been met. It's length is appropriate for one of the smaller towns in the county. Arguably it  could do  with  a couple of pics more, but that's not a prrequisite for GA. and if nothing  suitable is available for free use  at  Geograph, there's not  much  we can do  about  it .--Kudpung (talk) 05:29, 3 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Well obviously the lead needs expanding to include more from the main body from the article, although I understand this may just be because it's the last thing that gets done (that's how it is for me anyway). -  in  progress
 * It's odd that the history section starts with 1265 and then jumps back to 701; a chronological order would make much more sense.
 * The second paragraph needs a citation.
 * Was Evesham mentioned in the Domesday Book?
 * "...vying for control with the abbey": vying for control of what exactly? I'm not sure if readers will be able to fill the blank.
 * When was the castle razed? And nothing to do with the development of this article, but do you have more information on it and the context of its destruction?
 * The further I get through the history section, the more oddly arranged it seems to be. It's not very long so I'd ditch the sub-sectioning. I get the impression that this was done to avoid making it seem like it was all about the abbey, but early on it was certainly the settlement's main feature. I get the impression the settlement grew around the abbey, although the link is not explicitly made. However, "...led to a growth in the town within the loop of the river" makes it seem like there was a settlement before the abbey, so the origins of the town need to be clarified somewhat.
 * "...until approximately 80 years ago": could this be changed to "until approximately the 1930s" or something along those lines as it won't become dated.
 * The later history seems to be lacking a bit, although this may just be the nature of the subject. It might be worth adding context by mentioning the effects the English Civil War, the Industrial Revolution, and World Wars (major touch stones of English history) had on the town (or even the absence of impact from these events). - in  progress
 * "In May 1924 floods at Evesham ranked 5th in the annual flood list": I'm not sure what this means; is this numbers of floods, volume of water, or something else?
 * The geography section seems to be mostly about flooding, but what about the landscape around the town or neighbouring places?
 * I've left some comments above, and I'll add more later. Nev1 (talk) 20:53, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * While we're expanding the Geography section, shall we merge in the Vale of Evesham stub? I think it would make sense. GyroMagician (talk) 21:49, 6 October 2010 (UTC)


 * Not being sure about the bounds of the Vale of Evesham, I can't support or oppose that suggestion but it does sound interesting. Nev1 (talk) 23:15, 6 October 2010 (UTC)  -  merged


 * The demography section looks generally ok, and I like the comparative stuff.
 * A section on governance is missing; WP:UKTOWNS includes some suggestions; political affiliation of local councillors and the MP, that kind of stuff. The demography section mentions a civil parish, but it's not mentioned anywhere else. Is the town also a civil parish? as far  as available info  permits.
 * Maybe consider moving the bit about unemployment from the demography section to economy, and perhaps adding a bit on percentages of people in full-time, part-time, and self-employment. A reference for the first paragraph of the section would be desirable. The section looks a bit light, although I suppose for a town 22,000 inhabitants that's understandable.
 * The culture section looks good, my only question about it is when was the Regal Cinema first opened?
 * I don't think I've heard the term "first school", why not stick with "primary school"? (see blow -  it  s an official  term,  but  not  many  UK LEAs have a 3-tier system)
 * The rest looks good to me, although a few references could be sprinkled over the transport and sport sections. Nev1 (talk) 23:46, 6 October 2010 (UTC)

Thanks Nev, that was an excellent  review. First school is the term given to  primary  schools in  LEAs that  have adopted the three tier system of First  school,  Middle School, and High  School. The Governance seection is being  worke on  offline and I  have a rough  draft  already  but  it's very  short. A lot has been written about  the regal Cinema, the websites need going  over again  to  find the first  opening  date or year. Flood list ranking  needs a source. Evesham is a civil  parish -  like Malvern, it  calls itself a Town  Council, but  is in  fact  a parish as the Worcs County  Council  and Wychavon District  sites will  show.--Kudpung (talk) 07:17, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Domesday ref GyroMagician (talk) 10:13, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Where does this story of the drunken  knights going  on  a spree come from? It's been remomvd anyway ;) --Kudpung (talk) 11:45, 7 October 2010 (UTC)

Here are some refs that may help:


 * "Probably the monks felt capable of defending themselves, judging by the action of Abbot William de Andeville (1149-59), (fn. 77) who took and destroyed William de Beauchamp's castle of Bengeworth. (fn. 78)". VCH Evesham (see para 10).


 * "But now it is high time that we take some note of the town which had gradually grown up around the walls of the monastery, and was as much under its protection and control as under that of the castle of Bengeworth, when held by those powerful barons the Beauchamps. Indeed the abbots knew how to defend themselves of such noble neighbours as these when the latter proved to be aggressive, for in the year 1158 Abbott William seized Bengeworth Castle (which stood at the foot of the bridge) from William de Beauchamp, and demolished it, in return for the said William having destroyed the walls of the cemetery and robbed the church, for which he was also excommunicated." Noake's Guide to Worcestershire By John Noake Noake.


 * "The Beauchamps also built Bengeworth Castlem on the s side of Evesham, whose abbot destroyed it in the C12 to prevent attacks on the adjacent priory and lands by the 'lawless bands' that occupied it." Worcestershire By Alan Brooks, Nikolaus Pevsner

So, it seems the story is true! GyroMagician (talk) 14:30, 7 October 2010 (UTC)