Talk:Evil clown

Google
What is the importance of including the following in this article: Statistical evidence for the "evil clown" meme:

A Google search shows that an estimate of approximately one in 272 web pages contains the word 'evil' and one in 2120 contains the word 'clown'. By chance, assuming a null hypothesis that the two words are uncorrelated, only one in every 576,640 web pages should contain both words. Google's estimate of the number of web pages containing both 'evil' and 'clown' is roughly one in 18,700, or 30 times higher than that predicted by chance.

The estimate of the occurrence of the exact phrase 'evil clown' is roughly one page in 450,000, significantly higher than the expected rate of finding the two words anywhere in the same document. By comparison, the exact phrase 'good clown' is only estimated to occur in one in every 3,170,000 web pages.

(All calculations to 3 significant figures, as of early 2002).

-- Zoe

No. I vote for removal since it is at best original research and really bad and flawed at that. Wikipedia is not to place to post original research. --mav 05:13 Dec 12, 2002 (UTC)


 * It's flawed, all right, but not all that original. There have been some actual dead-tree type essays on this in Jungian literature (Ann and Barry Ulanov, The Witch and the Clown), where the 'dark' side of the Clown archetype = the "Trickster" of various mythologies.  I can't imagine who'd look up "Evil clown", myself... --- Someone else 05:48 Dec 12, 2002 (UTC)


 * I can't believe this is actually an article on a would-be encyclopedia. And attempting to justify it by boasting stats from a search engine is the height of myopia.--69.81.161.110 23:58, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Is 'recent' an appropriate addition? What does 'recent' mean, exactly? Because a character such as the Joker points to social fears of clowns since at least the 1930s. 24.222.64.85 17:29, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

John Wayne Gacy
Should John Wayne Gacy be added in here? He was dubbed the "Killer Clown" and may have added to the mystique of the evil clown mythology.

-Erskine


 * I second this. He ought to be added.appzter 04:41, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

On the subject, I don't know how to set up redirect pages, but shouldn't "Pogo the Clown" in the article redirect to John Wayne Gacy? Stefano Magliocco 22:09, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Gacy definitely belongs in this article, but his description as "a homosexual American serial killer" seems gratuitous. He was also a white serial killer, a male serial killer, a Illinoisian serial killer, an English-speaking serial killer, etc. What about this one aspect of his identity justifies special attention?
 * This is probably a little late in the day to be adding this opinion, but I agree wholeheartedly with you, he shouldn't be creditied as a homosexual killer, including this and not including the other catagories you mentioned somehow implies that his homosexuality has something to do with the killing, which is just ridiculous. Sky83 (talk) 16:54, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Until John Wayne Gacy came along there wasn't any "evil mystique" about clowns in the U.S. This whole section could be dedicated to him since he is the one who sparked the public's morbid interest in the first place. It looks like your list of "evil clowns" are simply Gacy wannabes. And as such this "evil clown" section should be deleted as it has no relevance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.151.233 (talk) 04:11, 20 August 2013 (UTC)

Evil clowns in movies
Was there a movie where Russian spies posed as clowns? I think the movie featured the main characters giving aliens a glass of water, and near the beginning, one of the characters dealt with opponents by pointing his fingers at enemies and saying "bang". Andjam 00:42, 14 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks for the synopsis - I have been looking for its title (Real Men btw). 9ofzeven (talk) 14:35, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

There was a Stranger in a Strange Land movie? Rearden Metal 00:55, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

The movie "Shakes the Clown" featured clowns acting in arguably evil ways.

Kefka from FFVI?
Would you guys consider Kefka Palazzo from Final Fantasy VI an example of an "evil clown?" His absence from the list jumped out at me. What do you think? --Jason the Delicious


 * On a related subject, evil clowns also show up as minibosses in the video game Dragon Quest II.

Also, what about ?

kefka certainly can be called as an evil clownTowers84 14:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I disagree. I played the game when it was known as FFIII for the Super Nintendo, and I never got the sense that Kefka was a clown in any way. IMO, only the CG portrait created for the Final Fantasy Anthology update makes him seem so. Can any Japanese or Japanese-American readers confirm or deny my opinion? NickJones 14:23, 28 July 2007 (UTC)NickJones

I agree that Kefka should be added as an evil clown. It's hard to tell whether his lines during the game portray him as being insane or as simply thinking he's funny (but actually sane) --71.198.143.141 (talk) 18:49, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

I also agree. Jeremy112233 ( Lettuce-jibber-jabber? ) 01:47, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

sex and the city
whats the name of the episode when Brady has his first birthday and the lawyer doesn't like clowns; by the way which one here is afraid of clowns, Miranda or Brady
 * I think it's called One and it's in series six. Miranda isn't afraid of clowns though, she was just annoyed that Steve's mother had hired the clown without telling her, and that Carrie had already told her she was afraid of clowns and had requested that none would be at the party. So it's Carrie with the phobia, not Miranda or Brady. Sky83 (talk) 16:56, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

What about Michael Myers?
Does Michael Myers count?

22:50, 21 September 2006 (UTC)Enda80


 * Michael Myers is not a clown though. He's simply a killer who steals and wears a mask. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.203.137.27 (talk)

He slew his first victim while dressed as a clown. His adult mask resembles one.

19:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)Enda80

Actually, it's a modified "Captain Kirk" mask. See Trivia for Halloween on IMDb.

Precisely. Resembles a clown. ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.116.67.106 (talk) 12:21, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Subterano
"*In the movie Saw and its sequels, the antagonist sends a clown-like doll on a bicycle to deliver macabre messages to his victims.
 * In the movie Subterano, the antagonist sends a clown-like doll on a bicycle to deliver macabre messages to his victims."

I know about Saw, but based on the trailer at IMDB, it looks like Subterano has nothing to do with clowns. Because of that and the fact that it has the same description as Saw, I'm going to delete it. I don't intend on seeing it, so if it does have clowns in it, feel free to add it back in with something more closley related to it.

Images: not fair use
I am afraid that all images used in this article are copyrighted and their usage here do not fit the "fair use" concept, which allows us to use these screenshots only in discussions of the corresponding films. I am afraid most of them must be deleted. Mukadderat 01:52, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

That Picture
That picture's a little frightening. =( Does it have to be there? 152.23.196.162 14:06, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

homey the clown
while disgruntled is not evil im removing it

Earlier versions of the theme
Michael Myers in 1978's Halloween, at the age of 6 slew his sister while dressed as a harlequin.

http://www.amazon.com/Spider-Gotham-Hound-Slaves-Laughing/dp/155742327X/ref=pd_sim_b_5/102-1170224-7979311 Perhaps in the Spider novel Laughing Death

However, the cliché also appears in these pulps: http://www.comicmix.com/news/2007/06/25/the-shadow-knows/ Shadow #9, our special "Foreshadowing The Batman" volume, reprints "Lingo," one of Walter Gibson's all-time classics which inspired the Batarang, Theodore Tinsley's "Partners of Peril" (the novel that inspired Detective Comics #27's "The Case of the Chemical Syndicate," plus a bonus Tinsley novelette: "The Grim Joker" (featuring a murderous, white-faced crime clown). Next spring, we'll be releasing a special "Foreshadowing The Joker" volume that will reprint Ted Tinsley's "Death's Harlequin" and the 1940 Shadow radio script, "The Laughing Corpse." The latter, broadcast six weeks before Batman #1 debuted, featured a chemical that caused victims to laugh themselves to death, quite similar to The Joker's original M.O. "Death's Harlequin" was on sale the same month as Detective Comics#27 (when we can be pretty sure that Bill Finger was paying close attention to The Shadow Magazine) and pitted The Shadow against a murderous clown who like The Joker was a vision of madness: "The thin lips were drawn away from skull-like teeth. The cheeks were sunken and leathery. Dank black hair lay matted thinly on a baldish scalp the color of old parchment. A living corpse in the costume of a gay Harlequin! With a wide-muzzled gun. And a jeering laugh that made the silence in the room crawl with menace."

Enda80Enda80

The "evil clowns in popular culture section" is too big.
I feel that the section on evil clowns in popular culture is too big, and has become bloated with examples that are useful to no one. For example:


 * 1) Kefka, the main villain of the SNES game Final Fantasy VI, wears face paint and clothing reminiscent of a clown.
 * 2) Phillipe, (a circus clown) is the boss of the England area in the SNES game Final Fight 2.

Who would find these examples of evil clowns useful? Wikipedia doesn't need to list every single example of an evil clown. Gary 01:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)


 * I decided to delete nearly all of them, leaving a few famous examples, like the Joker in the Batman series. I think these few remaining entries serve as good examples of the Evil Clown, without being obscure or drowning the reader in endless examples of evil clowns in animes and video games that few people have ever encountered. Gary 04:24, 8 August 2007 (UTC)


 * It has become too big again. I think the suggested merge should go through, and the "in popular culture" be changed from a trivia list to a prose-based description of the different tropes (e.g. The Joker, Steven King's It, child molestation, alcoholism) OrangeDog (talk • edits) 03:33, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit warring to retain list
This article is already mostly about pop culture. An extensive, uncited list of examples clearly violates WP:IIFO, WP:COATRACK, WP:OR and any number of other policies. I'd appreciate if the various anonymous users who have been continuously adding this information stop, or at least make some attempt to justify the changes. eldamorie (talk) 18:41, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

In Weird Science to the episode "Funhouse of Death" in got a clown in carnival.

the psycho clown are captain spaulding in " the house of 1000 corpse " & " devil's reject ".

zombie clown to the final scene in zombieland.

Adams the clown with 2 chainsaws in Dead Rising.

the clown in blue of the game alone in the dark 2.

Zombozo leader of the criminals circus in ben 10.

Vampire clown hearing the laugh in extreme ghostbusters.

alien in costume clown are fired for make scare the kids in men in black the cartoon.

zombies clowns in Dead Carnival of "Left for Dead 2".

the zombies clowns in the level 2 of "House of the dead : Overkill".

spiders clowns in kiss psycho circus.

Jester in Devil May Cry 3.

Khan in costume clown of the fist broken sword.

the puppet clown in hide the ennemy of the saga saw.

the killer clown in 100 Tears.

the doll clown of Poltergeist.

Horny the clown in Burger Kill.

Buggy the Clown in one piece.

Piedmon one of the shadows masters in digimon.

the cards of the darkness clown and zombie clown in Yu-Gi-Oh!

the clown in alex's nightmare of buffy the vampire slayer.

the clown of carnival in mighty morphing power ranger. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.230.65.225 (talk) 11:04, 28 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Given that the list is always in danger of growing far too large, I fin it surprising that more rigid criteria for suitability hasn't been imposed on the list. If anybody has suggestions for how this may be done, please feel free to contribute. At the moment, I propose that all entries on the list:

This move would considerably shorten the list, removing among others which I may have neglected to pick up on. It's an idea, and it would certainly keep the list from turning into an endless catalogue of everything vaguely resembling an evil clown. Benjitheijneb (talk) 12:38, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * must be directly identified as a clown rather than as being reminiscent of a clown.
 * must be a main character in their particular context, standing in a sustained role throughout the plot.
 * (some as of yet undetermined criteria for whether or not the context itself is of any particular note, or whether the work is a minor one of little cultural significance.)
 * The Joker
 * Captain Spaulding
 * Wiggles the Clown
 * The Ghost Clown
 * Odd Bob the Clown
 * Shaco, The Demon Jester
 * Piedmon
 * Buggy the Clown
 * Donbalon
 * The Robot Clowns from the 1988-1989 Doctor Who Serial The Greatest Show in the Galaxy
 * Sideshow Bob

19th century origins?
Should some mention be given to vengeful clown characters before the 20th century? Pagliaccio of the opera Pagliacci or the jester Hop-Frog from the Edgar Allen Poe story of the same name came to mind. --96.246.226.8 (talk) 02:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much, will certainly add those in. And thank God somebody's got an example to go in the "Origins" section rather than "Popular culture"; it's a nice change from edit warring over an endless list of obscure clowns. Benjitheijneb (talk) 12:44, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Apology from D3323 and a reason
I'm sorry to change the name of the page, but it can't be about one evil clown when there's more than one. ~D3323 6:12pm June 13, 2014
 * The page is about the concept "Evil clown" not about the fact there have been many of them. Can an administrator please revert the page change until it has been discussed and consensus made here on the talk page? Jeremy112233 ( Lettuce-jibber-jabber? ) 01:46, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * ✅. JohnCD (talk) 08:29, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
 * It should be Evil clown, not Evil Clown. Andy Dingley (talk) 08:54, 14 June 2014 (UTC)

South Carolina clown sightings
I suggest that South Carolina clown sightings be merged to Evil clown. Evil clown sightings in a specific local area probably shouldn't have their own article when we discuss the same topic here. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 00:42, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
 * It's been a week, and there have been no objections. I suggest people speak up now if they think there's a reason the SC clown sightings are independently notable. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 17:33, 28 September 2016 (UTC)


 * I'm speaking up. Please wait a while. I think this may deserve a standalone. Let me draw some attention to this post. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:52, 30 September 2016 (UTC)


 * Never mind. I see this is AfD now. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:54, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Right now, I do not think this should merge anywhere. It is filling out and passing GNG nicely. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:12, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

I agree with Anna Frodesiak, with the recent treads continuing and the change from the page of South Carolina clown sightings to the overall sightings and report, this page will only grow and merging would not be ideal.Wshjackson (talk) (15:14, 2 October 2016 (UTC))


 * Hi Wshjackson. Not ideal to say the least. With all those subsections, and a social media section likely coming, it would never fit nicely into Evil clown. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 20:13, 2 October 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅. Wshjackson (talk) (16:57, 3 October 2016 (UTC))

Section order
It was suggested at Articles for deletion/South Carolina clown sightings by User:Tiptoethrutheminefield that the depictions sections could be at the bottom. Not a bad idea. He also suggests possible collapsing of that section. I would disagree with that. So, thoughts on that? Oh, and I suggest that there's an evil clown in your closet right now. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 22:17, 30 September 2016 (UTC)

Boldly fixing article sections
I will. Please revert or modify as you see fit. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 01:46, 1 October 2016 (UTC)

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Coulrophobia
I was redirected to this page when looking up coulrophobia. If this page on the archetype of the "evil clown" is to double as a page on the specific fear, then shouldn't it have a little more clear coverage of it? The phobia was only mentioned a few paragraphs in to the origin and then departs again. There is not even any indication that the phobia would be discussed in any location; it seems merely a sidenote to explain the popularity of the archetype. Should this page not at the very least contain a specific section on the fear? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.197.193.213 (talk) 23:10, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. The term is here and is discussed.Jytdog (talk) 17:19, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
 * There was a coulrophobia page, but it got deleted and merged into this topic. Doczilla  @SUPERHEROLOGIST 21:28, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Halloween 1978
It should be noted that Michael Myers in Halloween 1978 murdered his sister with a Harlequin clown mask! How is this not significant in the evil clown archetype? This is one of the early interpretations. It was years before pennywise, and the film was released two months before John Wayne Gacy’s crimes were discovered! It should be listed on the Depictions section, period! VarneyTrevor1296 (talk) 15:28, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
 * This article is not a list of random characters that were in some way at some time "clowns" and "evil". Unless we have independent reliable sources discussing Myers as an example of the evil clown trope, it cannot be included here. - Sum mer PhD v2.0 23:15, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 30 October 2022

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Judekkan (talk) 18:43, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Evil clown → Evil clowns – Page should be moved to either Evil clowns or Evil clowns phenomenon (choosing the former for brevity), as this is not about one particular evil clown. QueenofBithynia (talk) 18:18, 30 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Comment – Would that be in accord with WP:SINGULAR and WP:NCPLURAL? Graham (talk) 06:27, 31 October 2022 (UTC)


 * I think so (I would think of this as coming under the "groups or classes of specific things" exception in WP:NCPLURAL, but I may be mistaken) QueenofBithynia (talk) 06:56, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Oppose. I don't see any strong evidence that suggests that it should be plural. It isn't an article that is necessarily about a group of people. In other words, plurality is not necessary. aaronneallucas (talk) 19:18, 31 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:SINGULAR. Article titles are usually in the singular form and I don't think this topic fits into one of the exceptions for making it plural. Rreagan007 (talk) 00:38, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per Wikipedia article naming conventions, particularly WP:SINGULAR. This is not about a distinct population any more than firefighter, mermaid, or frog. Doczilla  @SUPERHEROLOGIST 19:50, 1 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Oppose per WP:SINGULAR. The proponent doesn't understand our article title methodology. Their argument could be used to pluralize almost everything aside from single proper names like "Wisconsin" or "George Strait".  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  19:36, 5 November 2022 (UTC)

Killer clowns
The 2016 clowns are back in 2022 74.127.202.177 (talk) 18:01, 4 December 2022 (UTC)