Talk:Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet

Notability
While hilarious, does this really need an article? Perhaps if it turns out to be the deciding factor in the election, it could be included on McGuinty's article... Adam Bishop 02:47, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * And it certainly will be, trust me. I wrote it with tongue in cheek to be sure, but it definitely happened, it definitely impacted the campaign, and I managed to make a long, complete article. If it were a stub, though, I would agree with you.


 * And I mean, come on, terrorism and medicare have nothing on this. We can't just let it fade into the fog of history. Think of posterity! - Montr&eacute;alais


 * Well, it has certainly swung my vote :) But I'm not sure we'll remember it in a few years...maybe it could be moved to a Slogan: page. Adam Bishop 03:02, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * I would also invite comparisons with such articles as Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead and All your base are belong to us. And hey, this one is from real life. - Montr&eacute;alais


 * True...I wonder if the picture of him holding the kitten would be fair use? Adam Bishop 03:10, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)


 * Better yet, check out this one. Definitely not fair use, though, sadly. - Montr&eacute;alais

I agree with changing it to Slogan:, though it was a statement in press release, not a slogan, so maybe not. It does deserve an article, when described at this detail, frankly, it's gathered more air time on most TV stations than any actual issue has in this election. - user:zanimum

Can we put this on the main page new article section for even just 3 minutes? Pleeeeeeassse? - user:zanimum


 * I'd love it, but I'm not gonna be the one to do it. - Montrealais


 * Maybe some April 1st. Herostratus

Yep. Still notable. 2009 and here I am in wikipedia looking it up for a friend that doesn't believe me it happened. Now off to see if there is one about how Stephen Harper eats babies..LittleMatchGirl (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 12:40, 4 February 2009 (UTC).

Clem
For the record Clem (not "Clem the Demon") is neither evil nor particularly reptilian. Unfortunately, I've been rendered incapable of making any corrections to the page by the fact that I'm giggling too much ;) chocolateboy 21:36, 15 Dec 2003 (UTC)

Ailurophagy
Ailurophagy, is this really a word? I searched for it on dictionary.com with no result and on google with results only pointing to this article! SD6-Agent 04:30, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * It's as much of a word as "coprophagy" (which Salvador Dali was once accused of), though I suspect (with apologies to any dung beatles reading this) that ailurophagy is an easier taste to acquire :-) chocolateboy 12:59, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)


 * rimshot SD6-Agent 22:52, 26 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Deja Vu
In June of 2004 a similar statement linked Paul Martin with the production of child pornography. It was quickly withdrawn and, mysteriously, re-issued.
 * Was he actually accused of being an e.r.k.e.o.p., or does this just refer to the garden-variety smear campaign? If the latter, I don't think it's quite relevant to this page. - Montr&eacute;alais 03:34, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

from Vfd
On 8 Mar 2005, this article was nominated for deletion. The result was keep. See Votes for deletion/Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet for a record of the discussion. &mdash;Korath (Talk) 17:21, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)

Picture
After the incident there were a number of pictures taken of McGuinty holding a kitten. It would be great if we could get one of those to illustrate this article. - SimonP 23:38, Mar 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * I strongly agree, and put a reqimage tag on this page. The link given earlier doesn't work, is one of these publically available? -- Corvus 06:14, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
 * While yer looking for one of those, do we really need the pic of the kitten? I'm fairly sure that people know what a kitten is, and, as the discussion below goes into, it's probably not fair use, anyway. --InShaneee 05:19, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I think it's cute. --[[Image:Ottawa flag.png|20px]] Spinboy No ads on Wikipedia. 05:21, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * ...Agreed...but...speaking ENCYCLOPEDICLY...I resume my suggestion. --InShaneee 19:27, 24 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm honestly torn on this one. On the one hand, it's not very encyclopedic. On the other hand, I submit that an article on something humorous deserves a touch of humor of it's own.
 * As for the search for an image to replace it with ... I did a Google image search for "Dalton McGuinty and kitten" -- one of the images it showed of him holding the kitten had a logo on it (definitely not for putting here), and the other was way too small. --Yar Kramer 19:39, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

How about this picture:

http://www.ctv.ca/archives/CTVNews/images/20030927/ont_elxn_20030927/mcguinty_kitten.jpg

It's from CTV which allows the use of its content for non-commercial use. There's also a photo from the CBC (http://www.cbc.ca/ontariovotes2003/images/mcguinty_kitten_cp092703.jpg), but the CBC does not seem to have a similar clause (even though it's a better picture)-RomeW


 * Hmm ... yeah ... now, if my laptop wasn't currently futzed up, I might be able to expand that first one ... --Yar Kramer 17:29, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I found a photo of McGuinty with snowball. I believe it qualifies as fair use and I have uploaded it.  I also found an editorial cartoon about the kitten-eater, but I'm not so sure the fair use rational will hold up for that one, so am hesitant to upload it.  ONUnicorn 20:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Joke?
Is this actually a serious article? Looks like a hoax to me. - EliasAlucard|Talk 01:51, 21 May, 2005 (UTC)


 * As a native Ontarian, I can assure you this is indeed true. - Lucky13pjn 01:29, May 21, 2005 (UTC)


 * This actually happened, I hate to say. --Spinboy 01:30, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Featured Article Candidate?
Okay, now that's a joke. The article is way too short and way too silly (I don't care if it's true) to represent Wikipedia's best work. Most every day when I take a look at the day's featured article, I know it's ones like them that are the best arguments against the project's detractors. They would have a field day if we ever let "evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet" be a featured article. --BDD 23:21, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
 * It isn't a candidate anymore; it got nominated back in March by GRider as a misguided exercise in making a point and was almost universally opposed. The discussion is essentially dead; I'm accordingly removing the FAC template from this page. Discussion archive is at Featured article candidates/Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet. Bearcat 01:23, 28 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Note, Featured article candidates/Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet was moved to Featured article candidates/Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet/archive1 and the original then deleted. 84user (talk) 06:48, 31 August 2010 (UTC)

Alf image
I disagree with the removal of the Alf image, I think it's perfectly acceptable for it to be here, especially since there is reference made to Alf. -- Spinboy 18:13, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair use makes quite clear that fair use screenshots are only valid in articles that contain "critical commentary" on the television show in question. This article is not about Alf. - SimonP 18:37, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
 * I know where I'm not wanted :p Alf melmac 20:35, 18 September 2005 (UTC)

It is speculated

 * It is speculated that the original kitten-eater comment may have been written by fans of the television show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which at one point featured a kitten-eating demon, a character by the name of Clem. (He played "kitten poker", in which kittens are used as chips, and was reputed to eat his winnings.)

"It is speculated"? Passive Tense Weasel Wordery. Who speculated? Was it a Wikipedian with too much time on her hands? Whole para is original research. My apologies to CanadianCaesar for not writing this quite fast enough to beat his reversion. --MyRedDice
 * OK, my apologies as well, legit concern. I'm now looking at referencing stuff and have restored the Buffy stuff with references to Washington Monthly and Crikey. CanadianCaesar 04:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)

My turn to apologise - there was already a reference to the buffy story - a broken link in the external links section. So I should have checked that first. --MyRedDice

Regarding "Sorry."
I am of the opinion that the pejorative was "Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet" and that "(Sorry.)" in the original source text apologizes for that usage and as such ought to be removed from the introductory line, but I am aware other editors disagree with me so I wanted to explore the consensus on the issue. Thoughts would be most welcome.

I have, however, removed the editors note in the source article. It does not seem appropriate to place that there without there already being a consensus that "(Sorry)." ought to be included.

-SocratesJedi | Talk 17:21, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

(Sorry.) should be included as it retroactively changes the whole tone of the epithet. Snipping out that bit would be taking the phrase out of context. --Cyde Weys 17:31, 5 April 2006 (UTC)


 * No way. The tone is pretty clear with or without "Sorry". "Sorry" may be a part of the original release, but so are a lot of other words that we don't quote. DJ Clayworth (talk) 19:29, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

As an Internet meme
I propose we drop that category, as something with 657 Google hits probably wouldn't qualify. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 05:03, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

Merge proposal

 * Strongly oppose Has survived AfD, influenced an election; merging it with either Dalton McGuinty or the election article would be arbitrary and if merged to McGuinty it would be a POV redirect. CanadianCaesar Cæsar is turn’d to hear 18:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I also oppose, this issue has already been discussed and debated on a number of occassions. - SimonP 18:08, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Strongly support This is silly. If every bad name a politician received got its own page, then certainly the names given to more notable politicians would fill half of Wikipedia. This deserves to be a section under the McGuinty page and nothing more. FWIW, this is my first exposure to this issue. -- Kickstart70 - T - C 02:23, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * BTW, where is the AfD discussion so I can peruse it? -- Kickstart70 - T - C 03:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * It can be read at Articles for deletion/Evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet. - SimonP 04:11, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Strongly oppose a merge -- This is not a common case of just a politician being insulted. It's a valid piece of Ontario/Canadian history.  ColtsScore 08:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - just to put this in perspective, Ralph Klein has been premier of Alberta since 1992 and throughout most of that time he has been called "King Ralph". The King Ralph page itself only has a single line entry on this issue for disambiguation purposes. Dubya is just a redirect to George W. Bush, though this is probably the widest spread of a political nickname in the world. Turd Blossom is mainly about the Texan manure-growing flower, and only lists a mention of Karl Rove. Slick Willie is just a disambiguations page, which points users to Bill Clinton and someone else. I'm not saying that this is not notable, but it's only notable in the context of this politician, and certainly not as notable as any of the examples I have given. I'm not going to get into a knockdown, dragout fight over this, but I do think that if you step back a bit and look at the overall picture, you'll see what I'm talking about. FWIW, this is not a straw poll and voting like this is inappropriate when the intent is to reach concensus. -- Kickstart70 - T - C 17:17, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Who's voting? Everyone is giving a reason.  Anyway, you can dig up some examples that suit your argument, or you can consider that there are articles that reflect some humourous political moments on other incidents- You forgot Poland, Mush from the Wimp (linked in this very article), and anything in Bushism.  I fail to see how Canadian politics are "less real" and thus less deserving of a place in Wikipedia. I also fail to see the relevance of you never hearing of this before; you're from BC.  CanadianCaesar Cæsar is turn’d to hear 18:59, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * As a matter of fact, I HAD heard of this before, and never said that I didn't (clarification, I realize what I said above made it sound like I hadn't...that was unintentional). It made the news here in about a 15 second segment. This is why I say that this IS notable, but not on its own page. This one minor element of the election campaign had a far lesser impact than the examples you gave. -- Kickstart70 - T - C 19:12, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose merge - I think merging it would be like appealing the AfD. Aside from that, Wikipedia has a sense of humour--I think this article should stay.  If this article is merged one could argue Jesusland map ought to be merged with the American 2004 election. Nephron  T|C 22:29, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppsose - Much of the information here would be entirely inappropriate for the McGuinty bio. CJCurrie 21:35, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. chocolateboy 19:16, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Move the photo?
I'm wondering if maybe we ought to move or change the photo - it seems a bit harsh to have Mr. Dalton McGuinty's image on the top. People (such as myself) who are unfamiliar with the article are confronted first by two things: This will lead to either assuming the entire article is a joke (I had to take several moments to really absorb the context) or assuming that the article is intended as a personal attack on the politician. I am not recommending removal of the article or photo - I'm just suggesting we have a more appropriate photograph to describe the situation rather than the person. We can also link to the photo of Mr. McGuinty or include it later in the article. Nimur 17:03, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) A title which implies that someone is actually a reptilian kitten eater
 * 2) A photograph of someone.


 * IMO, that's a bit of an overreaction. The intro paragraph makes the context clear. I think the photo is fine. Shrug. &mdash;Lowellian (reply) 22:27, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

A possible source?
From a quick Factiva search... "Tory mudslinging against McGuinty ramps way up during Week 2 of campaign" by Andrea Baillie, 13 Sep 2003, (c) Canadian Press, which tries to put it in context:

''First he wasn't up to the job. Then he was against seniors, children and young home-owners. Before long, Conservative attack dogs were saying Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty was in need of professional help. By week's end, the rhetoric had turned ridiculous, with one over-the-top news release describing McGuinty as an "evil reptilian kitten-eater from another planet."

''"Things are getting a little bit bare-knuckled," noted Paul Barker, a social science professor at Brescia University College at the University of Western Ontario in London, Ont. [...]

''His strategy on the campaign trail was to "take the high road" and make light of the barbs, joking that Premier Ernie Eves would soon be blaming him for every ill to befall society.

''"(Eves) is going to announce that I am the cause of premature baldness," McGuinty said. "You elect McGuinty as premier, he'll sneak into your home and steal the family pet."

''By the time the "kitten-eater" insult surfaced on Friday, McGuinty's comedic timing was positively Seinfeld-esque. "I love kittens, and I like puppies too," he said. "I have eaten calf, I'll admit to that."''

I'm not Canadian and don't know the politics or media there sufficiently, so I thought I'd leave it here for others to consider adding. Orderinchaos 06:38, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Another article - "'An evil reptilian kitten eater'; McGuinty ignores latest Tory insult" by Jennifer Quinn, p. A01, Toronto Star, 13 Sep 2003, begins: "The e-mail from Conservative headquarters broke some news. It read: "Dalton McGuinty. He's an evil reptilian kitten eater from another planet." Then, in brackets, "sorry." The news release, sent yesterday to reporters all over the province, was a new high - or low - in an already nasty Ontario election campaign that has seen personal insults flung with abandon and rhetoric reach unparalleled depths. Since the very first hours of the campaign, the Tories have gone after the Liberal leader. Eves has called McGuinty "unfit to govern;" has said he's "against your kids being in school every day;" and declared he is "against continuing to lower taxes in this province so we can have more money to spend on things like health care and education." One news release suggested that if McGuinty actually believes what he's saying, he should avail himself of "professional help." For their part, Liberal candidates have called Eves "incompetent" and untrustworthy - accusations that were quoted in the "kitten-eater" e-mail, which began, "there came a fork in the 'high road.' The Liberals took it." McGuinty has attacked Eves' policies - and cracked jokes about the insults levelled at him, saying Eves thinks he's the cause of male-pattern baldness." Later, "Paul Rhodes, the Tories' media director, said the only people who didn't see the "kitten-eater" line as amusing were "humourless journalists." "The Liberals understood we were having a joke, and it's clear that our highly refined sense of humour was lost on reporters and editors, who are somehow taking this seriously, which I find peculiar," Rhodes said yesterday afternoon, declining to name who wrote the release, which was sent out by an assistant in the media office. "Even we don't believe that anyone, on earth, is an evil, reptilian kitten-eater from another planet," Rhodes said. "I'm just surprised this was actually taken seriously by anyone." Campaigning in Woodstock, Eves said he wouldn't apologize, but noted the release "went over the top." "Somebody had a weird sense of humour and we will try to ensure that it doesn't happen again," the Premier said during a hastily called news conference. "There's a lot of repartee that goes on back and forth among campaign camps and I think someone in there either had way too much coffee this morning or had too much time," he added. "It certainly is over the top." "


 * Once a decision is made on these, the above comments of mine should be redacted to history - it is probably a copyright violation, but has been done solely in the interests of sharing relevant information and having the text of the source on record for examination. Orderinchaos 06:50, 26 December 2007 (UTC)


 * Sorry to bother again, two more - won't bother quoting from them as the content is obvious:
 * "Eves acknowledges insult to McGuinty 'over-the-top'" 12 Sep 2003, The Globe and Mail (Breaking News, no page cited). References the professional help line "earlier in the week".
 * "Dear Mr McGuinty - An Occasional Bulletin from Ernie Eves Campaign Headquarters - September 10, 2003" published 11 Sep 2003, Canada NewsWire. Specifically about tax rises, finishes "Lucky for you, Dalton, that Premier Eves used higher revenues fuelled by tax cuts to increase health care spending by $11 billion since 1995. Because if you truly believe what you're saying, you need professional help." Orderinchaos 06:58, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:McGinty with kitten.gif
Image:McGinty with kitten.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 18:49, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Hyphen
In the kuro5hin link, the words "kitten eater" are not hyphenated. Is this true to the original release, and if so shouldn't the article title reflect this? --00:30, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I agree. The original text leaves it ambiguous if McGuinty only eats reptilian-kittens, or if he is a reptile himself.  I'll edit it to correct.  Angel Thane (talk) 16:46, 27 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Now it doesn't correspond with the article title. --Ysangkok (talk) 22:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)