Talk:Extreme card manipulation

Pedantic
way too pedantic. you then exclude anybody who does 'XCM' but happens to know a few tricks. what do you make of aladin who shows up in the X Games type Book of Cool? or Ricky Jay? or Rick Smith? ever heard of them? bit inconvenient their existence, huh?! ;o) Grroin 00:16, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

AfD
This article clutters up the landscape. And the authors swallowed my bait - Ricky Jay is a magician. I have seen him off broadway and also broadway with his show "Ricky Jay and his 52 assistants". It was a magic show. He has done tricks everywhere on TV. And the ECM XCM whatever guys say that magicians can't be extreme card people too. come on. Am putting this up for AfD and putting a POV alert for good measure - just does not reflect what 99.99% believe out there; this is clearly a few people promoting themselves or each other or just bitching. Grroin 01:02, 22 November 2005 (UTC)

This page redirects to card magic following this AFD debate. THe history is still in tact if anyone wants to review the content and merge some of it. Sjakkalle (Check!)  07:40, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Reference
I am removing the reference to www.superhandz.com for the statement "The term "Extreme Card Manipulation" (XCM) was coined by De'vo vom Schattenreich in 2004", because the site is affiliated with Schattenreich. Evidence for this is that the about page says "Superhandz has long been a dream of Underground Master Manipulator, De'vo", and that his personal website handlordz.com and superhandz.com both have a Store link to handlordz store. I also could not find this fact stated at www.superhandz.com anyway. --Jon186 (talk) 21:18, 11 January 2008 (UTC)