Talk:Eye color/Archive 1

Fixed
Fixed a few things, especially concerning whoever made up that crap about green eyes. Also, fixed "light blue eyes" to be called gray as dark, since clearly the opaque over the translucent makes the blue eyes appear gray, though they are really blue. Also fixed the definition of the word "hazel." Few people sadly seem to do research on this eye color with the general masses confusing it for just combination eyes. Also added the unusual eye color section.

EDIT: Though oddly enough someone likes the change some information back to the previous false facts. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.254.167.236 (talk • contribs) 12:52, 6 December 2005 (UTC).
 * Whoever wrote the previous two entries: Please sign with four tildes (~) so that we know who you are. Also, the above two entries are difficult to understand due to grammar problems. Could you clarify? Or perhaps get the assistance of a native speaker to help you articulate your ideas. That way, we can have a meaningful discussion. InFairness 02:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

==Color Light switch When the poo I While color change in young children is mentioned, I am aware of several people in my family whom have eye color changes relatively constantly throughout their lives. Is there a name for this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.10.78.110 (talk • contribs) 14:31, 22 March 2005 (UTC).
 * I've encountered several people who claim their eye colour changes with their emotional state (e.g. several respondents to this survey ). Does anyone know more about this?  Are there really people for whom this is true, or is it just reflections of their environment?  I've spent some time hunting for reputable sources about this, but can't find any.


 * Mine seem to do this. My eyes can flux between brown and green.  The outer edges are green and there is a brown ring around the pupil.  They show greenest when I'm outside or in bright light.  In moderate or dark light they show brown.  Certain mood changes such as arousal can cause them to show greener too, though I'm not sure if that has something to do with ambient light at the time.  My theory is that because of the brown ring around the pupil, a change in the size of the pupil may cause the apparent color of the iris to change.  Various moods and mental states can affect the size of the pupil independently of light intensity

Dunno, maybe I notice more or enviromental reason, my eyes goes from dark brown to light brown and my right eye have a olive rim --MeowKun 03:22, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Expand, please
I've started this article though I'm not an expert on this topic. It seems to me like a lot could be written about the geographic distribution of eye colors around the world. So those more knowledgeable about this should expand it! &mdash;Lowellian (talk)  01:34, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

Is there information available on demographics, meaning what percentage of people have each pigment, which is rarest, etc? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.92.145 (talk • contribs) 21:50, 24 May 2005 (UTC).

What about people with Violet eyes (like Elizabeth Taylor)? Or people with those almost white, blue color eyes (if violet and blue-white are not just somehow blue variations)? And if Grey eyes are different from Blue eyes, why not mention them as thier own eye color? Also what more about susceptibility to light damage in brown-, green-, and other than blue-eyed people? Include detailed images of violet, hazel, grey, and white-blue eyes, if possible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.204.164.138 (talk • contribs) 23:51, 12 October 2005 (UTC).

Oi, yo, can you give more info on them there grey eyes with brown ring and black centre please (this is what my eyes look like) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 150.203.2.85 (talk • contribs) 10:28, 13 November 2005 (UTC).

I know people with golden/yellow eyes as well. Well, Wikipedia does give near-infinite chances to expand an article.Bjones 23:27, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

I added an external link to my eye color generator. Check it out!. Wrote the html code myself, getting the basis from Athro.com. They stole my ideas and html script. I am currently investigating as to why they did so and didn't give me (and my good friend Hunter) credit for our contribution.... Tell me what you think on my talk page.[Ardo] 04:43, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

examples of expanding: cultrual significance (though this could be more relevant to eye), importance to sexual attraction as an indicator into genetic compatibility(or mention of the research) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.12.226.32 (talk • contribs) 16:03, 3 April 2006 (UTC).

To say black people don't have blue eyes when all people with blue eyes have one co.mon ancestor is silly.

Also
Two brown eyed parents can have a blue eyed child because brown is dominant. Therefore, both parents could have a "hidden" blue gene. If the child got both of these, they would possibly have blue eyes, I believe. Since blue is recessive, I am not sure if two blue eyed parents could have a brown eyed child.68.160.190.21 21:39, 26 October 2005 (UTC)

My parents both have blue eyes, but mine are hazel (green with brown in the center.) I suspect eyes do not follow simple Mendelian genomics. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.157.52.131 (talk • contribs) 22:04, 16 December 2005 (UTC).

No, I asked my science teacher about eyes when we studied Mendel and he said eye color was controlled by around a dozen different genes!12.17.189.77 02:54, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Not to be harsh, but if your parents both have true blue eyes and you have hazel, it is most likely you are a mutant or at least one of them is not your parent. Eye colour may be controlled by dozens of genes, but the blue = recessive thing is pretty well documented. Skittle 10:05, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Green eyes

 * Green eyes are most often found in people of Celtic, Irish and Aryan descent.

- That is not true. The word "Aryan" has been around for hundreds of years long before Nazis came to existence. It was used to describe people who speak Indo-European language or the people from North India and Iran. Nazis just invented their own meaning of this word.--Tsnatt4 03:13, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) "Celtic descent" includes "Irish".
 * 2) Aryan sounds a bit vague. It would be better if we had some statistics about the regions where the green eyes are more common Bogdan | Talk 09:38, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * 3) Doesn't Aryan refer to Iranian peoples and not Germanic? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.91.92.145 (talk • contribs) Time 21:48, 24 May 2005 (UTC).
 * It may now, but the phrase was created by the Nazis. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.243.185.208 (talk • contribs) 23:22, 5 August 2005 (UTC).

I believe the reason the Nazis used this term is because the Aryan people originated in Europe before coming to these regions. This would explain how the term was manipulated and how the lighter eye colours reached this region. Smart194 22:24, 26 June 2006 (UTC) - From my understanding, green eyes also occur among Slavic peoples of all three regions: West Slavs, East Slavs, and South Slavs. User:Le Anh-Huy 21:38h, 14 Feb 2006

- I've read that some parts of India also have people who carry the green eye gene.


 * hi. I've a number of questions:
 * is that celtic thing true? I've always thought that was "common" in southern Europe, for instance greek goddess athena was known because of her green eyes.
 * None of my parents have green eyes, and I've them. My father eyes are Blue (ocean blue) and my mother eyes are brown.
 * BTW, blue eyes are pretty common in southern Europe, but the most common are, in fact, brown ones. So the info about Black and Brown seems correct. But the info about green ones is that correct?
 * What about colour variations, when I was little people said that I had blue eyes, but they changed (lucky me, I dislike blue eyes). Or that was due to light?
 * What about light sensability of people with clear eyes? For instance in a sunny day like it was today in here, I had some problem with excess of light.
 * thx -Pedro 18:58, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Confusing Grey Eyes Sentence
"Very light blue eyes can be confused with grey eyes". This doesn't make much sense. This should either be rephrased as "Very light blue eyes may give the impression of being grey," or "Grey eyes are often confused with very light blue eyes." Whichever the sentence is intended to mean. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.243.185.208 (talk • contribs) 23:26, 5 August 2005 (UTC).
 * Be bold. mikka (t) 23:40, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

confusing use of the word dominant in colour section does it mean genetic or 'prevalent'? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.12.226.32 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC).

Michael Ealy
A black person with no Caucasian ancestors CAN have blue, green, gray, hazel, or violet eyes naturally; it is rare, but NOT impossible. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.181.234.82 (talk • contribs) 21:00, 8 May 2006 UTC).

how about Vannessa Williams??? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.161.64.231 (talk • contribs) 22:37, 1 January 2006 (UTC).
 * See the above comments.&#160;—  The KMan  talk  22:39, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, I saw Eastern Asian (with no white ancestry) can have Blue eyes (mostly associated with genetically dieaseas. Plus my mom have hazel eyes with a green rim and her ancestors are all Chinese! Like there is no way I have any white blood in her.... How can u explain that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.161.68.104 (talk • contribs) 21:45, 2 January 2006 (UTC).


 * Well, as far I know It's been suggests that cultural exchanges happened between western populations and Chinese populations at a very early date (2nd and 1st millenium BC) as the result of the migrations of Indo-European people far to the East, and perhaps the best example are the Tarim mummies, a series of Caucasoid mummies which have been excavated in the Tarim Basin (Eastern Central Asia, today the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region of the People's Republic of China).


 * But that's not all, Pliny reports a curious description of the Seres (in the territories of northwestern China) made by an embassy from Taprobane to Emperor Claudius, saying that they "exceeded the ordinary human height, had flaxen hair, and blue eyes.


 * Maybe just the idea of an isolated human genome in China is just wrong, but anyway we can't just diminish the idea of an independent mutation on the many genes involved. Jfreyre 23:22, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

The word "white" is a racial slur and should be replaced with caucasion! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 206.248.153.220 (talk • contribs) 00:51, 3 January 2006 (UTC).


 * "How about Vanessa Williams???"


 * It's the same situation. Do indeed "see the above comments".  This link to an article by a geneticist says the same that I said above: ; but isn't Vanessa's white ancestry obvious, anyway:, , , .  "White" is not a "racial slur", but a colloquially and commonly used racial term.  "Cracker" and "whitey" are racial slurs, and "caucasian" is inaccurate because it specifically refers to the people of the Caucasus mountains (although this term is still widely used as well, as exemplified in the geneticist's article).  To the person with the Chinese mother and who has seen a blue-eyed East Asian "with no white ancestry", you're personal experiences are not compelling on their own.  I've heard nothing of "hazel eyes with a green rim" appearing in unmixed East Asians, and the other posters here sound like they haven't either, so a reference from you would have been good.  See the link I've already posted here about how "you need to have caucasian relatives on both sides" to have blue eyes (or a case of OA or, less likely, a new genetic mutation).  You may have some hidden ancestry from the West (of China or Eurasia), or your mother may be extroardinarily unusual. --Jugbo 23:35, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

(I am the guy whose mom have hazel eyes) well, she said people in her dad village is like that too.... its in guandong province.....  quite poor when my grandpa went to Hong Kong...... I have medium brown eyes and dark brown (not even black, some of them even blonde) hair and really really pale skin..... A lot of East Asian born as brunette too...... —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.161.119.118 (talk • contribs) 05:32, 5 January 2006 (UTC).


 * According to the Mongoloid article: "The vast majority [of mongoloids]...have straight black hair, dark brown eyes, and relatively flat and broad faces. Dark brown hair and lighter brown or even grey eyes do occur, but less so. This is especially true among "Southern", or non-prototype Asians;" and that "Very thick, wavy hair is common in North China and in Korea; and the occurrence of grey eyes and even blue eyes has been seen among a few Central Asians and Mongolians." I'll confess I've never read this before, and it appears I'm ignorant of this occurence in these populations (except of the occurence of caucasoid populations in Central Asia; see Seres and Tocharian).  Could you perhaps post a picture of a light-eyed (gray/blue) or light-haired ("blond") mongoloid? --Jugbo 00:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

A lot of East Asian (mostly in Northeast part, such as Korea and Japan)have brown hair with brown eyes. I have to confess too that I only heard of full Asian have blue eyes but i never seen a real one. But I did saw a full Asian with natural platium blond hair (the sad part is that guy have genetic problems... cant remember his eye color, is like grayish but im not dare to straight). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.161.119.118 (talk • contribs) 05:09, 6 January 2006 (UTC).


 * I recently sent a question to "Ask a Geneticist" on the site "Understanding Genetics", asking about the occurence of non-brown/black eyes and hair in non-caucasoid populations. I'll post a link to their answer when they respond (those interested could watch the page, too). --Jugbo 00:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

hello, any answer from them????? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.161.94.69 (talk • contribs) 02:05, 27 January 2006 (UTC).


 * No, not yet. I'll post it when they respond. --Jugbo 23:02, 30 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I've received an email from these people, but it doesn't seem that they'll include my question on their site, so I'll post their answer here:


 * ''Q: Do light-colored eyes (i.e. hazel, green, gray, blue or violet;
 * ''not simply "light-brown") or light-colored hair (not due to UV damage) occur
 * ''naturally in non-caucasoid populations? I've heard allegations of "blond",
 * ''gray/blue-eyed Chinese (in the south, not west); of green-eyed Melanesians;
 * ''and of blue-eyed and green-eyed "Africans" (I assume sub-Saharan). I know
 * ''that some Australo-Papuans have yellow(ish) hair and that albinism can cause
 * ''yellow hair in African negroids; but aside from these occurences, I've heard
 * ''of no others (especially relating to eye color). Are there any other
 * ''occurences like these? Thank you.


 * ''A: I have heard of some but they are pretty rare, especially when you rule
 * ''out albinism. I have seen rare mutations in the MC1R gene in African
 * ''populations that lead to red hair (see
 * '' for a discussion of MC1R and
 * ''red hair). I have also heard that when sailors first arrived at Easter
 * ''Island, there were redheads there. And that in New Zealand, there were
 * ''light haired, blue eyed people. However, these last two folks aren't around
 * anymore and we don't know if they somehow came there from Europe originally.


 * ''I have heard of light haired Chinese but I have always heard that this is
 * ''due to Caucasians who were there centuries ago. It does seem that light
 * ''hair, eyes, and skin originated in Northern Europe and failed to originate
 * ''elsewhere. We talk about why that might be in our answer at
 * ''


 * Perhaps I was vague with my question and the respondent thought that I wanted more stories about the subject. Although they mention the "rare mutations" that account for red hair in "African" populations and the provided links elaborate on the genetic causes of light hair and light eyes, this person didn't really answer the (intended) question, which was about whether or not these traits actually do occur in these populations independently rather than about what people have heard. So we hear from this person that they "have heard" of the occurence of light hair and eyes in China and that it's due to a "Caucasian" presence, so that the features, ultimately, aren't indigenous to that region. Although it's mainly hearsay, this response is directly from a geneticist on the issue. --Jugbo 18:40, 15 February 2006 (UTC)


 * So is that mean im part white without me realizing it now???? oh wow dunno what to say, then i guess probably i got some central asian blood......MeowKun 02:30, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

China is right next door to India and Pakistan. Light eyes are pretty common there especially in Pakistan and blond hair is not unknown especially in Northern Pakistan, the part that borders China. Might explain it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.82.48.54 (talk • contribs) 13:40, 12 March 2006 (UTC).


 * That's thanks to Aryan invaders who had blonde hair and blue eyes. Aryan in this case refers to the Indian historial context, not the Nazi Germany historical context.  --banzaimonkey 06:00, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Despite what we know about human genetics, we still haven't uncovered the full tale for eye and hair color (not even a decent partial tale). Neither of them are completely controlled by a single gene (or even a few genes). While the most likely cause of blue eyes among Africans is by admixture from populations that have those genes (e.g., rapes by slavers or explorers.), mutations can be passed on for many generations. And, with the Founder effect, it is quite possible to have isolated populations with relatively high allele frequencies. Unlikely, but not impossible. As for the comment about "pure Europeans," there is no such thing. Just think of Europe as going from the Iberian Peninsula to Finland and Ireland to Bulgaria; mix in the Vandals and Goths, as well as the Hordes from the Mongolian Steppes; and you simply don't have a "pure" anything. Keep up the discussions, though. Ted 01:35, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Ok, another que from MeowKun. My hair is not inky black and i can seldom found some copper/blonde hair in my head, what is with that??? Remember I'm from Hong Kong. --MeowKun 03:20, 13 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, perhaps it's not unreasonable to suggest that you have "Western" ancestry. The British occupied Hong Kong for how long? Also, remember that people have always gotten around, so it probably wouldn't be unlikely that there's been a presence of western Eurasians in China since ancient times, as the geneticist suggested. --Jugbo 01:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Both side of my family come to Hong Kong at the early twenties from Mainland China and no so far in my family i didnt see any Caucasian relatvies except my counsin-in-law (aka i dont share ancestry with that guy). Here are some of the photo of my eyes, esp my right eyes because it is lighter then my left eye. Picutre One Picture Two Picture Three Notice there is a slight olive ring around around the eye. Unfortunately its not the best quality I so I will try other chance that I will have. --MeowKun 23:07, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Worldwide percentages?
Is there any estimate of what the worldwide breakdown of eye color is? --Scaryice 10:08, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Photo
This article could really use a better photo of hazel eyes. The one that is there is very overexposed, and it's hard to compare the color with the other photos.--Srleffler 22:09, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

I will be bold and remove it. Benstrum has kept putting it back, but I agree it is a very poor photo. I think a better description of the photo would be "light brown" eyes. If anyone else agrees, say so here. InFairness 07:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Green/Grey
I always thought I had green eyes, but the sentence "A yellow-, amber- or copper-colored ring is commonly seen around the pupil" makes me think I may have grey eyes. They really do look green thoug; do these rings occur in green eyes or is it just grey? Citizen Premier 00:01, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Er nevermind, I think I have blue-green eyes... but how many different colors can get the rings? Citizen Premier 00:03, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

The "grey eye" with a ring is not very clear--it seems to be more of a greenish-grey color to me. I have seen the ring in all different eye colors. My mother had a bright, thin, yellow wire-like ring around her pupils, but otherwise "black" (very dark brown) eyes. There is a much better picture under the article iris (anatomy). I will use that as an example of one (incorrect) use of the term "hazel".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Contact_lens_246462_2036.jpg i think that could be a better grey eye example, although the light shining might just give the illusion of grey rather than light blue. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 129.12.226.32 (talk • contribs) 15:59, 3 April 2006 (UTC).

Genetic link
Having read the article at the former link given for the statement that "In [European] population, brown eyes are genetically linked to brown or black hair", I have decided to remove it because the statement was a vacuous truth. Besides, having brown hair does not 'necessarily' mean that one must have brown eyes in 'any' population. For example, I am of European descent. I have brown hair, but blue-green eyes. So what happened? The statement makes no sense. InFairness 05:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

genetics much complexer
I was reading in forensic stuff some time ago, that desprite all developments, it was still impossible to determine the color of the eyes based on genes, because the large number of genes involved. --KimvdLinde 15:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Black eye image
The black eye image was such that it was unclewar whether this was due to real black eyes or that the eyes were brown but only looked black due to the poor light condition in the image. A image indicating such a specific thing should be 100% clear and not raise doubt KimvdLinde 22:56, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

"Hazel" eye
The pic of the "hazel" eye has been removed because it is a brown eye. Could we please get a real picture of a 'light brown' eye here? &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by InFairness (talk &bull; contribs) 03:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC).

What color is this?
I wonder if we could get a consensus on what color eye this pic is. It seems to me to be a sort of greenish-gray, with the infamous copper/brown ring. I can see how it could be seen as "hazel" (light brown), because it seems to be greenish-almost-bordering-on-brown. I can also see how some might see it as an example of the "wrong" use of the term "hazel"--transitioning from green to brown. I think it would be nice to use in the article, it is such a nice pic. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by InFairness (talk • contribs) 07:44, 5 February 2006 (UTC).


 * I think this is a typical exapmle of a grey eye, read the description, they often have those rings. The argument that it is such a nice picture is not sufficient to add it to a article. However, if it does a better job in showing a typical grey eye, than discussion on replacing it could be in order.


 * Actually, you are incorrect. Grey eyes may have brown/copper/yellow rings. Nowhere does it say (and it would be incorrect if it did) that rings were typical. I understand that you are not a native speaker of English, and I want to clarify my comment above. I did not make, nor would I make, the argument that being a nice pic is the only or even primary reason to place a picture. As you yourself have pointed out, there have been a number of unhelpful pictures placed in the article, and it would be nice to have pictures that are helpful in demonstrating the various colors. The pics for blue, blue-green, and green work nicely. We haven't had one for hazel or brown (at least that was legal). Still, I think the pic is rather a greenish-grey. InFairness 08:19, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Acually, you all are incorrect. It looks indego to me. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.16.111.202 (talk • contribs) 09 00:13, 15 May 2006 (UTC).

Purple Eyes
I deleted this part because it appears to be some really cheesy legend spreading. Also, there is absolutely no documented evidence to show any sign of this and the one source I found (which was from the author of a fanfiction story) suggested that the "Alexandria's Genesis" genetic disorder is the result of alien life. &mdash;The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.24.100.102 (talk &bull; contribs).

This is untrue. Elizabeth Taylor had puple eyes (more properly called violet), although the condition is extremely rare. Someone with a significant amount of knowledge on the subject (which a I don't have) should recreate that section, if only as a sidenote. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.17.189.77 (talk • contribs) 02:56, 19 February 2006 (UTC). The passage previously here was incorrect, they aren't "so-called" purple, they are purple. It is not some dark shade b of bile with a hint at purple or violet. You can see that in the pictures of Elizabeth Taylor with her vibrant purple eyes. A member of my own family who has since lost her eye sight to cataracts as she is going on 98 years old, once had a vibrant shade of purple also. She does not have Alexandria's Genesis but it is part native American.

BTW: Why is the section on blue eyes longer than others?InFairness 05:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I think its also important to note that when people say "she has grey eyes", they really have grey eyes. Pure grey, no rings or flecks.

I think a picture of "violet" eyes should be added - it may help clarify things. Also - organization is a bit scattered in this entire article - can it be improved upon? ewok37 20:35, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

The "Alexandria's Genesis" nonsense seems to be back. I have removed some ridiculous (and needless to say, completely unsubstantiated) claim about people with violet eyes not getting sick and living to 100. Queue pitiful new-age whining about tolerance and open-mindedness in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1... Hyperdeath 14:07, 8 July 2006 (UTC)

removed images
I had a look at the removed images, and could not detect any maniulation. What is wrong with the image tag? --KimvdLinde 16:42, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

- no le, The vast majority of the world's people have dark eyes, ranging from brown to nearly black. Light brown eyes are also present in many people, but to a lesser extent. Most of the original inhabitants of Africa, Asia, and the Americas have brown eyes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.10.40.202 (talk • contribs) 10:42, 20 February 2006 (UTC).

Not completely true
It isn't completely true that Brown Eyes are always genetically linked to Brown Hair. This might be the most common way, but it isn't completely true. Alexis Bledel has brown hair and striking blue eyes, while 72.226.60.206 21:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I already addressed this issue. See above under Genetic Link. InFairness 05:21, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I know a lot of people with Brown Hair and Blue eyes. In the text, southern Europeans are putted in the same level as North Africans and Middle Eastern. As I said earlier blue eyes ARE VERY COMMON in Southern Europe. In fact, it is the second most common colour after Brown ones (my view of things), I dont think we can compare it with North Africa, Middle East and Asia!!! The info in the article seems biased. -Pedro 00:44, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey Pedro. No they're not "very common" in Southern Europe. Not by far. But yes they are the second most common color, because they are the second most common color throughout much of the world. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.57.141.194 (talk • contribs) 07:53, 8 April 2006 (UTC).

Simplyfied genetics
The genetics of eyecolor as described here are a simplified version. So also for the hair-eyecolor link. I am dark blond, and have brown eyes. So, if 95% posseses the link, 5% is still a large number in total. Many of these things are more complex as described here, and an exception is not imemdiatly a indication is is wrong. --KimvdLinde 05:38, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

A "Startling" Mix
I wonder if we could get a consensus on the picture (and associated caption) "Nick_green.jpg". We already have a picture of green eyes, and a very good one, at that. Since we seem to have one picture per iris color, is it necessary to have a second one only for green eyes? Additionally, in the past, it has consistently been placed in the wrong section. Anonymous user 65.34.136.176 continuously replaces this picture. I would like to ask this person a question: Do you really think that the "nick" picture is better than the other one? If so, I invite you to share that reasoning on this talk page. Otherwise, it should be removed and stay removed. There is one picture for each eye color, so why is it necessary to have a second green picture (and in the wrong section, I might add)? Also, the caption is POV; I do not find the alleged color combination ("gray, green and gold") to be "startling". That sounds like a bit of egotripping for the guy who took the picture of himself. I could also call into question the accuracy of the caption: I see a green eye with an unnatural-looking orange band around the pupils. Also, no other caption mentions the origins of the person whose picture is displayed. The image for blue eyes mentions where the color is more prominent; In the regularly appearing Nick caption, the phrase "...in a male of Germanic descent" does not convey the same kind of information. InFairness 07:07, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

A "Startling Mix" II
On April 6 2006, Anonymous User 65.34.136.176 wrote:


 * I sincerely believe that this photo is not in anyway superflutuous, [ sic ] or out of character at all. I can understand changing the caption, but I really like the photo and believe it should stay on.

I wish to address the issues that he raises and solicit input. The image Nick_green.jpg has repeatedly been placed on the site by an anonymous user, I think, mostly with no reason given. Only the latest time has he offered any reason. But is the fact that he "really like[s] the photo" enough to justify its inclusion? I would point out a number of reasons I do not find it to be as helpful as some of the other photos.


 * 1. It is of one eye, and much of the eye is obscured by the reflected light in the room. One might also question how the actual color in the photo was influenced by said light. In the pics of brown eyes, green eyes, and the single, large gray eye, a reflected light is visible in the picture, but in none of these does the reflection obscure the portion of interest (i.e. the iris) in the same way as in Nick. Other pictures also include both eyes and little else. The former picture for blue eyes was even replaced because it was seen by others as too different from the other examples. (How I hated to see Bluey go! It was a great picture!) I wish someone would find a good pic of grey and brown eyes in the same style.


 * 2. Each of the other eye colors have one, and only one, example. That seems to be the pattern established for this article. Each of the other pics gives a fairly straightforward, undisputed example of the "pure" colors mentioned. If we want to have another section dealing with eye colors that don't quite fall into one of the six identified human eye colors, that might be the appropriate section for it. As it stands, it seems to be quite |superfluous.


 * 3. The caption that regularly appears, and appeared again in the last placement (the statement about "understanding about wanting to change the caption" notwithstanding) is unhelpful, as detailed elsewhere on this talk page. The caption that replaced it is perhaps less helpful, apparently describing a completely different image ("gold" eyes—something I just don't see, unless gold is really means green).


 * 4. To top it off, it is almost always placed in the wrong section, usually blue-green. The only thing "startling" about the picture is the disrutption in the article its placement creates (the large white space).

I invinte anonymous user 65.34.136.176 to address these points and those raised in the above entry. So far, he has chosen to not engage in helpful discourse. I am beginning to suspect that this may be a bit of trollery to get some people to jump through hoops and waste time and server space addressing. I could be (and hope I am) wrong. However, at this point, nothing has been presented to convince me otherwise. InFairness 06:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I have the feeling that person wants his own eye on wikipedia to brag about..... :-) KimvdLinde 14:56, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * It was I who reverted the removal. I understand that there is already one photo of green eyes, but I believe this one is relevant too, but yes, the caption is a bit POVish. I think that the photographer who took the photo and uploaded it understands whose eye it is and would like to share for all wikipedians to enjoy. If you want, you can go ahead and change the caption, but I believe that this is a fabulous photo that looks great in wikipedia. That is all. Bubby the Tour G 20:38, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Nothing to say? Isn't this supposed to be a discussion? Well, I feel like putting that image back in, since you are not responding. Don't leave me hangin', homiez!!! Bubby the Tour G 04:07, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

It would appear, judging from the warnings on your talk page, and the bizarre home page you link to, that you are indeed looking for trouble. I am still waiting for you actually address the issues I brought up. You have not. The two responses above indicate that you are not interested in actual discussion, but rather wasting others' time. I will not address you or the issue further until you demonstrate otherwise. InFairness 05:27, 20 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Hey get it straight buddy, you should read the no personal attacks policy. Your insults won't faze me at all. You don't have anything on me, because I am not looking for any trouble at all. In fact, it seems that you are looking for trouble with me. I already did address the issues above, if you actually noticed them. If you don't feel like addressing me or the issue anymore, then lots of luck to you. By the way, that homepage is my own, and I can do whatever I want with it. If you consider it bizarre, too bad. At least I win on that behalf. Have a nice day. Bubby the Tour G 03:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I will let your own words speak for themselves. I am sorry you choose to take any observations personally. But you, who have been warned repeadedly on your own talk page about making personal attacks, shouldn't you be rather more careful about casually making such charges? Have you actually read the policy? Once again, you have refused to address any issue that I have raised. You resort to red herrings to change the subject. I dare you to address any of the issues I raised above. Also, "at least I win on that behalf" [sic] does not make sense to me. Would you please clarify what is meant by that? InFairness 20:16, 22 April 2006 (UTC)


 * With that comment about me winning on that behalf, I was referring to you talking about how my homepage was bizzare, and I said that too bad, and that it is my homepage and that I can do whatever I want with it.
 * I already did address the issue, once again, scroll up a bit. If you don't feel like responding, then don't. The world isn't gonna end.
 * By the way, I was warned ONCE about not making personal attacks, not multiple times as you put it, about an unrelated issue. The other two were for including facts and information about YTMND within articles (not vandalism as he put it) which one admin just didn't like. But that is between that admin and me. Bubby the Tour G 22:17, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

South Asians with blue eyes
This article implied that only people of Iranian speaking origin on the subcontinent like Pathans and Parsis have blue eyes. This is not true. Blue eyes in South Asia are found among Indo-Aryan peoples from the north as well as eastern origins. Actress Aishwarya Rai has blue-green eyes and is of South Indian origin.

The term "South Asian" denotes not only India, but Thailand, Myanmar etc. Shouldn't the article be more clear in that aspect? Because the only areas of south that are mentioned are Pakistan and India. If those are the only locales know to have those colour eyes in their populations, shouldn't it be specified?? Vihrea 03:42, 28 May 2006 (UTC)


 * "South Asia" refers to the Indian sub-continent, consisting of not only India and Pakistan, but also Nepal, Bangladesh, sometimes Bhutan, Sri Lanka, and the Maldives. Myanmar, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, and East Timor are Southeast Asia. --Jugbo 01:21, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Purple eyes copyright violation
The section on purple eyes is a copyright violation see, here. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 23:33, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

New Hazel eye pic
I put in the new hazel eye pic, I'm pretty sure my eyes are hazel I just can't get a very clear picture of them. Any suggestions? Also I read up on the talk page above and noticed the discussed importance of having one picture per iris colour. I feel that hazel should be an exception because hazel has a huge variance in colour. Vihrea 03:02, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Eye color change
i found this site whilst searching the internet- http://www.eyecolorchange.com/ is it really possible to change your eye color? or is this just another scam?

This guy is of african descent but has blue eyes- http://www.thetech.org/genetics/ask.php?id=126 -K June 3 '06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.203.192.143 (talk • contribs) 03:39, 5 June 2006 (UTC).


 * Well, there is a difference between being born with a certain eye color and changing eye colors as you age. First of all, yes it is possible to change eye colors. Most white babies are born with blue eyes that may later change to green or brown. I have blue eyes and since I turned 18 they have become mixed with green in the center. That site looks a bit stupid, though. --Sean WI 19:32, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

yeah, but is it possible for african or asian babies to change eye color as they age? well, it should be possible, but it must be very rare right? And, is there any way to change eye color though use of medication or even diet? -K June 5, '06 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.203.192.143 (talk • contribs) 02:47, 6 June 2006 (UTC).


 * Read the article you presented on that African-American with blue eyes. The person most likely had European-American ancestors at some point on BOTH the father's and mother's side, possibly in the early 1800s. People living in Sub-Saharan Africa and East Asia will not have light eyes unless there is a unique genetic mutation. The website in question (obviously a gag) mentions light-eyed Asian rulers. They did not state whether or not they were East Asian mongoloid rulers. They could very well have been Greco-Bactrian, Persian, Tocharian, or Kushan (among numerous other dynasties). Anywho, someone with better knowledge on the subject should also answer. --Sean WI 03:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

Grey eye photo
I think there should be a better grey eye photo provided. This one doesn't really look as grey as some. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.145.57.166 (talk • contribs) 22:21, 6 June 2006 (UTC).

I have now put in a picture of my eye (grey)67.71.62.114 08:05, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Blue eyes: structural color? Melanin monomer?
I'd always heard that the blue of blue eyes is from frequency-dependant scattering. There are many online references which mention this: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22blue+eyes%22+%2B%22blue+pigment%22. Some of these say that the stroma cells act as unpigmented scatterers which send out the blue light. But our current article claims that the blue comes from blue-colored molecules of indole monomer. Who's right? --Wjbeaty 20:41, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. The unsupported claim in the current article was added by an incidental visitor Dan60226 on January 29. Until that date the article said that an iris without melanin appears blue due to selective scattering of light; Dan60226 replaced it by the claim that the iris appears blue due to the indole monomer, without a reference. He did not say that the indole monomer is a pigment that absorbs non-blue light, so if the indole monomer is responsible for the blue color it might still be an unpigmented scatterer. Ceinturion 23:43, 7 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Okay, a look at the article on Albinism suggests that sufferers of said condition are known to have blue, purple or sometimes pink eyes. (I'd always heard that "albinos have pink eyes because they don't have any melanin.") This leads me to believe that either A) eyes could come in slightly different structural shapes resulting in different colors of melanin-free eyes, or, more likely, B) albinos with blue eyes simply have a small amount of melanin in their irises, and that, in fact, blue is not the structural color of melanin-free irises. Modus Ponens 02:37, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Clean Up?
The section on colours seems very messy and hard to read. There are sub-headings and paragraphs everywhere. Could someone who is experienced with how to edit please make that section more aesthetically appealing?--Shaliron 05:09, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

Celebrity eye colours
I'm not sure if it's appropriate to place images of celebrities in the article, I really think it should have more a scientific approach. If it is absolutely necessary a new article could be created listing celebrities and their eye colours, they shouldn't be in the same article. --Vihrea 07:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I totally agree! --Wiki edit2 11:06, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

i don't get it...celebrities are people..and those pictures are of people...and some of the pictures for hair color are of celebrities. they aren't exempt of science. Colorfulharp233 01:14, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

On the other hand, if you look up eye colour or hair colour in an old fashioned encyclopedia (in text form) you're not likely to find references to famous people with certain colours of eyes. I truely believe they should be seperated or we could just not have celebrities at all....yes, even Elizabeth Taylor Vihrea 22:10, 17 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I don't think we should include celebrities' eye or hair colours in either article - unless we can't find any other examples of a certain eye or hair colour, of course. This particular article has all the examples it needs already. CameoAppearance 10:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Besides, too many pictures of celebrities have been greatly enhanced. They are not acurate examples.--Wiki edit2 12:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

New Brown pic
Wow, does anyone else find the new brown eye pic scary? It looks like the person is terrified. I liked the old one MUCH more. --Wiki edit2 12:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I definitely agree that the previous image was much better. The new pictures makes it look like there are no or very few veins in the eyes...seems photshopped or something....--Vihrea 00:12, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Missing information?
I remember coming across this article a while ago (primarily because on of the photos I uploaded was added to the page). Coming across the article again I've noticed that the entire genetics section, references, external links, etc have all beenn removed. ( Then and Now) Just curious if this is intentional (I don't see a discussion on this on the talk page) or somehow all that information got lost in a revert. --ImmortalGoddezz 16:53, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was my fault... sorry about that; it's because Firefox keeps cutting off longish articles. I'm going to see if I can do something about it. CameoAppearance 21:00, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I fixed it already, btw...Strange, my firefox doesn't seem to cut off long articles. Have you downloaded the lastest release?--Sean WI 21:36, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm honestly not sure; by the way, it doesn't do that every time, just much more often than I'd like it to. CameoAppearance 05:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

Color contacts?
It might be worth mentioning in this article that color contacts are now widley available and look extremely realistic. In fact, I'm wearing violet right now. It looks realistic but stands out due to my black hair. But anyways, back on subject, since there is no Color Contact's article anymore, it just might be worth mentioning. If I have the time I'll grab some citations and what-not and do it myself. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shadow Blood (talk • contribs) 05:15, 9 August 2006 (UTC).


 * Colour contacts do not look extremely realistic, they look like floating coloured pieces of plasting on top of an eye. The only way they can look realistic is if the person already has light coloured eyes and the coloured contact acts as a filter. If a person has dark eyes a colour contact looks extremely fake. Printed graphics on lens cannot reproduce the multi-dimensional colours present in a real eye. --Speakslowly 20:45, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

To many Hazel eye pics!
Some people went crazy on posting Hazel eye color pictures. Yes, we know there are different variations of Hazel eyes, that doesn't mean we have to post a picture to match EVERY SINGLE ONE. Im going to try to make them smaller so they fit on the page, or 2/3 should be deleted. Ruhe1986 23:35, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Green eye color rarity
This is a statistical certainty when considering that the inhabitants of most of Asia, Africa, and South America have brown-colored eyes. Blue-colored eyes are, in fact, common amongst European inhabitants, particularly since the alleles that possess this trait are found amongst at least two chromosomes, while they only appear for one for the green eye color. I will try to find a definitive article that confirms that green eyes are more rare than the colors listed, although this will obviously be difficult. 64.109.165.58 22:18, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Quality of Pictures
Could we please get some professional quality photos instead of users' own pictures of themselves taken on webcams, they are blurry and a couple of them were disgusting, the first blue eye photo features someone with horrible greasy skin and is generally quite unatrractive, the first green eye picture is poor because the eyes are not looking straight on at the camera, and again when maximized this image shows someone that looks quite greasy, maybe due to bad lighting, and the obvious unprofessional style. Angryafghan 10:21, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I hate to break it to you but that's what human skin looks like up close. And unless you find a professional to take photos and release them to wikipedia for free, we should stick to user made photos taken on "webcam". Most professional photos are touched up, airbrushed and heavily edited to look appealing. The "webcam" that I used to take one of the blue eyes photos is a 5.1 megapixel camera with 12x zoom. It's clearly marked on the photo. Hitokirishinji 18:39, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Altaic eyes
From my understanding, green eyes also occur among Slavic peoples of all three regions: West Slavs, East Slavs, and South Slavs. Among Asians, it seems only Central Asians and possibly Mongolians could have naturally occurring blue eyes, as if it were a continuum from Caucasians. My grandmother was of East Asian descent (Vietnamese), and had brown eyes with blue rims, and I have seen several exmaples of Asians with "hazel eyes with a green rim". I am also of East Asian descent, but I have brown eyes. There is a so-called "Tat-C" or "TC" gene which is said to be the missing link between people of European descent and people of Asian descent. ie. if a full Asian had somewhat "Western" features, or if a full European had a somewhat "Asian" appearance, that they have some common distant ancestry. You find these appearances all over Eurasia, from Eastern European and into Altaic Asia and even northern China and in Japan. Does this mean my grandmother had Altaic or Central Asian origins? Le Anh-Huy 05:06, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Eye color and Mendelian inheritance models
The determination of eye color does not follow the simple rules of Mendelian inheritance which helps partially explain how two brown-eyed parents can give birth to a blue-eyed child.

This sentence makes no sense whatsoever, due to the simple fact that the Mendelian model of dominant and recessive genes. - LeaHazel 23:27, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


 * I've reworded it to the following: Although it was once thought that brown eye color was always dominant and blue eye color was always recessive, the fact that two blue-eyed parents can give birth to a brown-eyed child has shown that the determination of eye color does not follow the simple rules of Mendelian inheritance. -AED 00:58, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

"Indian Eyes"
'' "Indian Eyes" are called such because they are found most commonly in those of Native American descent. Similar to Violet Eyes, Indian Eyes are believed to be caused by a serious lack of pigmentation in the eyes, with what pigmentation there is being a brown color. They are characterized by the reddish tint to the eyes, which can often be quite striking. They are also known to change shades depending on the lighting conditions. In high light, like pictured, they have a marvelous "marbleization", in which the weak pigments of the brown appear in the foreground, over the dark reddish background. In low light, they often appear black.''

I have removed the preceding paragraph per WP:V. No reliable sources were provided for any of the assertions nor was I able to find any. -AED 03:28, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Blue-green
Whatever happened to this eye color? Is it no longer considered a color? There is not a single instance of "blue-green" or "green-blue" in the article. BirdValiant 06:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The information that was previously in place was not verifiable and it is not practical to list every color in the Munsell color system. Part of the trouble is that that the grading of colors is inherently subjective and what appears to be blue-green to one person may appear to be blue or green to someone else. The image that went along with the previous "blue-green" section has been saved as it demonstrates this subjectivity extremely well; that image now appears toward the beginning of the article. -AED 06:38, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * What about eyes that have a blue color on the outside of the iris and a more green color on the inside, around the pupil? It seems different from the current picture in that the one in use seems more gray. Like this one that I think used to be on this article, and is still on other languages.  BirdValiant 18:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Geographical origin of mutations
''Statistical study of the occurrance of light hair (flaxen or red) and blue eyes shows that both traits have a central concentration in southwest Finland along the coast of the Gulf of Bothnia, from which increasing distance shows a decrease in the frequency of those traits, thus indicating the geographical origin of the mutations. ''

I have removed the preceding paragraph per WP:V. The citation does not give sufficient information to track down a reliable source for the assertions nor was I able to find any. -AED 08:02, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

More clear Blue Eyes Picture
User Nick4gwen replaced an earlier blue eyes picture for unknown reasons. I inquired him about it but he has not replied. The new picture I uploaded is more clear than the previous one and also is actually more "blue". The picture uploaded by Nick4gwen looks almost more like "grey blue" than true "blue".

Also, I snapped the photo to be purposely more in line with the "green eyes" picture, from an above angle looking down. Hitokirishinji 18:42, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

nom for GA status
Seriously this is rather good —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 88.105.103.98 (talk • contribs) 20:41, 12 October 2006 (UTC).

Colour Change with Emotion
It seems a relatively commonly reported phenomenon that some people's eyes change with emotions. For example, people have told me that my eyes vary from grey to blue to green depending on my mood. Now, that could be due to some other factors, but it seems that it should at least warrant mention, even if it isn't the case. A brief google search turned up this article on Herons that speaks about colour change occurring with emotion within that species, so there might be some credibility to it. http://www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-854981-4.pdf Jamincan 01:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)