Talk:Ezhava/Archive 9

Pic on the page
Hi ,

Ezhava is a progressive community in Kerala, who organized under spiritual leader Narayana Guru.

Present-day Kerala chief minister Pinarayi Vijayan, opposition kpcc president Mullappally Ramachandran and Indian ruling party bjp president K. Surendran and even Indian foreign minister V. Muraleedharan all are from Ezhava community in Kerala. These are just some examples.

The pic ssb added in the Ezhava page is a defaming pic, maybe some IP vandal pushed you to add the pic.

Instead, you can add this Ezhava/Thiyya girl pic : A Pretty Thiyyar Girl ,19th century British Photograph

The other one you added is defaming the whole community. As the position of a woman shows the community progress and history it would be best to add this historical British photograph.

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.39.78.249 (talk) 14:36, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I don't understand how the first two paragrapghs are relevant to the other three.
 * I don't understand how the image is defaming, please explain this, as I don't see how it's defaming I cannot justify it's removal.
 * The other picture has been added, so your 4th paragrapgh is null.
 * SSSB (talk) 14:41, 22 December 2020 (UTC)


 * you know in kerala, this open breast system are there for both Nair and even to other castes. You can find many pics in Wikimedia commons regarding the open breast pics. But later after the movement of narayana guru and other social reformers people in kerala changed their way of dressing.


 * A Mappila (Muslims of kerala) pic : https://english.mathrubhumi.com/polopoly_fs/1.640432.1446294616!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_822/image.jpg


 * A Nair lady : https://english.mathrubhumi.com/polopoly_fs/1.640431.1446294640!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_822/image.jpg


 * Nair ladies open breast pic : https://www.slideshare.net/GodsOwnKerala/ancient-fashion-of-k-erala, slide 29.


 * These pics are available in Wikimedia commons, but no one is adding those pics, Because these are the evil practices of everyone in kerala which they changed long back, some 150 years back.


 * Also the pic you added is just an outlier, some random farming class very poor ezhavas of malabar, does not represent the whole community.


 * That is why i recommended to remove that pic.


 * Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.39.78.249 (talk) 14:51, 22 December 2020 (UTC)


 * You may use this pic too A Thiyyar Moopan Painting by one of the disciples of Raja Ravivarma — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.39.78.249 (talk) 15:20, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * So, it still isn't a defaming pic.
 * The advantage of that picture is then that it shows how the poorer members of the comunity live, and if there are other images on commons with open breast women then this enforces the idea. I think it might be beneficial for you to look at WP:CENSOR.
 * I might be misreading your comment but you seem not to want to include images before this social reform. I have 2 questions:
 * Why does the article not mention this social reform?
 * Why shouldn't we include a pre-social reform image?
 * Because I am currently not following your arguement. SSSB (talk) 15:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Why shouldn't we include a pre-social reform image?
 * Because I am currently not following your arguement. SSSB (talk) 15:49, 22 December 2020 (UTC)

Photo of Ezhava
can anyone set this photo of ezhava ?

A Thiyyar Moopan Painting

This is a famous painting of a Ezhava(thiyya) moopan by a disciple of Raja Ravi Varma — Preceding unsigned comment added by 1.39.77.99 (talk) 09:13, 24 December 2020 (UTC) ✅Heba Aisha (talk) 09:40, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Please do not entertain such requests as the person who keeps asking for inclusions is a block-evading sock WP:BE. 106.66.186.78 (talk) 12:04, 24 December 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 December 2020
The caption of the first image is incorrect. File:Thiyya group photo.png is "a group of Thiyyas", a sub-group of Ezhavas. 2409:4073:418:F822:A1B5:59D4:86A7:97EA (talk) 09:17, 28 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Caption changed as requested. SSSB (talk) 10:31, 28 December 2020 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 January 2021
This can be used as the first image, captioned "An Ezhava couple in the 19th century". 2409:4073:81:9C5E:932:A072:FD0D:F72B (talk) 09:09, 11 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Added in the "Past occupations section". I think the lead has enough images as it is. SSSB (talk) 09:15, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:58, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
 * A Thiyyar Moopan Painting.jpg

Request to remove the picture ,"The group of Thiyyas in 1905"
The picture depicting a group of Thiyyas is very defaming as the chest portion of the women are not covered....It is explicitly defaming the whole community....If the reason for keeping that picture is to state that Ezhava women did not have the privilege to cover their chests, Then why not keep an image of a Nair woman with her chest uncovered....More than defaming the community the picture is so explicte...I am very sorry if I sound rude, but please consider my request...I am here in Wikipedia just for building an encyclopaedia.... Anyone please reply to my post.... Thanks AARYA SAJAYAN (talk) 12:15, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Defame - "To damage the reputation, character, or good name of (someone) by slander or libel." I fail to see how that image fits the definition. You might also want to take a look at WP:CENSOR. I really don't see why this image should be removed. SSSB (talk) 12:26, 17 February 2021 (UTC)


 * SSSB, That image is showing explicit nudity...I mean according to moral that image is showing Ezhava women without covering their chests...It is indeed shameful to see a group of women being portrayed without covering their chests...That image surely defames the Ezhava community....I know Wikipedia is uncensored but there must be moral values...A simple definition does not resolve the issue, The photo is publically exposing two Ezhava women... Isn't that shameful for their families... Please reply for my question..I am very sorry if I sound rude....But SSB I'm trying to convey that the it is publically showing nudity of Ezhava women...Thanks... Please reply.. AARYA SAJAYAN (talk) 13:46, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
 * They are possing for a photograph, the fact that the women have thier breasts showing (so partial, not full nudity) clearly indicates that they live in a cultural where showing breasts is acceptable. I don't see how this is shameful, I see no evidence that the women, or their families feel any shame, and this issue has nothing to do with morality. I shall re-iterate, they are posing for a photograpgh bare-chested, I therefore see no problem with this. SSSB (talk) 14:17, 17 February 2021 (UTC)


 * SSB, They are posing with nudity does not mean that they lived in a society where women could go topless, They were literally forced to not wear an upper cloth..They did not take casual photos,It would be taken by surveyors or other Britishers...Mr I'm from Kerala and I know a lot about Ezhavas... They were forcefully discriminated and suppressed...This photo being publically portrayed hurts the sentiments of the Ezhava community, That is why so many requests are being made to remove that image.... Thanks for Replying to my post.... Please reply... AARYA SAJAYAN (talk) 15:43, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
 * In order for me to remove this image I want a reliable secondry source that a) verfies that photographers made them remove their tops and b) a source that says that Ezhava women were never topless in day to day life at the time of this photo (c.1905). Because from where I am sitting They are posing with [partial] nudity does not mean that they lived in a society where women could go topless sounds contradictary. SSSB (talk) 16:03, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks SSB for your genuine replies...I just felt sorry for the Ezhava Community as I live around them.... That is why I felt sad for those Ezhava women who were forced to not cover their chests by the Upper castes... Thanks...I would be very happy if you helped me to clarify my doubts about Wikipedia further ahead on...Thanks AARYA SAJAYAN (talk) 16:29, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

SSB, See the history of Channar_revolt or Maru Marakkal Samaram, and also see the proclamation of 1859. evident reason for a source that says that Ezhava women were never topless in day to day life at the time of this photo (c.1905). Maybe the British officers or Indian feudal lords that time forced to remove these lower castes' upper body when they posing for a photograph.

Also the photo added in the beginning A Pretty Thiiyar Girl ,19th century British Photograph is not naked it took at 1898.

Do we need to harass the sentiments of ezhava/ thiyyar with such a photograph made on the above-mentioned forced circumstances?

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 March 2020
Can you use this pic for showing the ancestral thiyya house architecture in the beginning? It has been used in Malayalam Wikipedia taking it's social and historical significance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.173.252 (talk) 09:58, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌ the building is mostly hidden by a tree, it therefore doesn't really show architecture at all. Additionally it doesn't really have a place in an article that doesn't discuss architecture. SSSB (talk) 10:28, 9 March 2021 (UTC)

Architecture is not described but you can add it in history section. also the building and the ancient tree is important and I it the style of photograph which capture the surrounding ambiance as well. Tharavadu is unique to kerala and each castes has their own like for nair there is 4 kettu, 8 kettu for namboothiris there are manas and for thiyyar there are malikaveed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.95.175.182 (talk • contribs) 08:42, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 09:53, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

you can use this image for thiyya as this is historically important how thiyyar were in ancient British India.Used in Malayalam Wikipedia (https://ml.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%B4%A4%E0%B5%80%E0%B4%AF%E0%B5%BC). you can use this in past occupation or in history

Also the only certain castes in kerala follow Tharavadu system. A Tharavadu is an ancestral home. For Nair castes tharavad will be of Nālukettu and for Nambudiri it is of mana or illam. same way for thiyyar it is of malikaveed architecture type tharavad, which is unique. You can add this image for in culture section side bar showing how a thiyyar tharawad (a thiyyar house) looks.
 * With regards to the image of the house I will re-iterate what I said before: the building is mostly hidden by a tree, it therefore doesn't really show architecture at all. Additionally it doesn't really have a place in an article that doesn't discuss architecture. You can't see what a thiyyar house looks like because it is almost completely obscured.


 * As for the first image. Firstly, it's not in the Malayalan wikipedia page linked to this article through wikidata, but I don't speak Malayalan so perhaps they have duplicate articles. If this is the case this is something that you might want to set about resolving. Secondly, for future reference, that is irrelevant. Finally, I will add it, but as the article makes no mention of this relationship it really ought to be added. SSSB (talk) 11:30, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:21, 11 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Young Thiyyar gentleman in British service holding title of Amsham Adhikari,Rao Bahadur and Menon in south malabar.jpg

Request to Remove the image "Group of Thiyyas 1905"
I am raising this issue once more to convey the following things,

Ezhava women were not covering their chests not due to their wish, they were forced to remove their upper clothing by the Nambudiri Brahmins and other upper castes of Kerala. They were suppressed to the Avarna caste and had to live like slaves.

And if the women wished to cover their chests they had to pay a special tax known as Breast tax (Mulakkaram), Not only the Ezhava women were forced to remove their upper clothing but all castes below the (Nambudiri Brahmins, other Brahmins, Syrian Christians and Mappila Muslims) were forced to remove their upper clothing or had to pay heavy taxes.

Please see following Wikipedia articles, Channar revolt, Nangeli, Breast tax etc for further details, there it is clearly cited by reliable sources.

If Wikipedia is not censored and an image of nude Ezhava women can be added to a Wikipedia article then why is this image, A Nair lady : https://english.mathrubhumi.com/polopoly_fs/1.640431.1446294640!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_822/image.jpg is not included in the article about the Nair's, there in that Article showcases all women with their breasts covered when in reality most Nair women dressed like the one in the above.... Please reply about the topic after going through all the given sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by AARYA SAJAYAN (talk • contribs) 12:08, 12 March 2021 (UTC)
 * My initial thought is: if they were legally not allowed to cover thier breasts, the better approach would be to specify that in the caption. To remove the image on those grounds would be WP:CENSORship of history. SSSB (talk) 12:12, 12 March 2021 (UTC)


 * , you can add the picture of Nair women with bare breasts if there is no copyright issue with the picture. There js nothing wrong with that. Regards Kichu🐘 Discuss 12:30, 12 March 2021 (UTC)


 * , See the history of Channar_revolt or Maru Marakkal Samaram, and also see the proclamation of 1859.
 * evident reason for a source that says that Ezhava women were never topless in day to day life at the time of this photo (c.1905).
 * Maybe the British officers or Indian feudal lords that time forced to remove these lower castes' upper body when they posing for a photograph.


 * Also the photo added in the beginning A Pretty Thiiyar Girl ,19th century British Photograph is not naked it took at 1898.


 * Do we need to harass the sentiments of ezhava/ thiyyar with such a photograph made on the above-mentioned forced circumstances? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 59.89.240.203 (talk) 07:55, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I have included in the caption that they were not allowed to cover thier breasts. I still do not see a reason to remove the image, that would surely be WP:CENSORship. SSSB (talk) 09:40, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * In order for me to remove this image I want a reliable secondry source that a) verfies that photographers made them remove their tops and b) a source that says that Ezhava women were never topless in day to day life at the time of this photo (c.1905).


 * This is what you said in the above talk section.
 * I have provided the exact proofs for this.In 1905 thiyyars and ezhavar attained right to wear upper cloths.They attained this from Channar revolt or marumarakkal samaram of 1813 and with the proclamation of 1859.
 * This pic is of 1905, 50 years after the proclamation itself. So its clear that these poor family were forced to remove cloths while posing for a new and awsome thing of that time , even the rich of that time could not afford - A photograph.


 * please see it once again.


 * Wikipedia Image use policy states : 
 * Moral issues
 * Not all legally obtained photographs of individuals are acceptable. The following types of image are normally considered unacceptable:


 * Those that unfairly demean or ridicule the subject
 * Those that are unfairly obtained
 * Those that unreasonably intrude into the subject's private or family life


 * So this photograph is the violation of rules 1 and obviously 2 mentioned above.
 * Today ISIS have taken many photographs of US Citizens who are forced to pose in naked.
 * Will that appear in Wikipedia a 100 years later ?
 * Sameway British officers forced these poor people to remove the cloths while forcing for a photograph (A very expensive luxury of that time), because in 1905 and from 1859 onwards these people attained rights to wear upper cloths , which is also evident from This pic of 1898 59.89.240.203 (talk)
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Noncreativephotographer (talk • contribs) 12:03, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree that this image violates Those that unfairly demean or ridicule the subject (something which I was not aware of) and I have removed the image. SSSB (talk) 12:22, 15 March 2021 (UTC)


 * Thanks SSB for removing that image, I am living in Kerala now and I'm coming from a Nambudiri Brahmin family, I'm very aware of the cruelties done by the uppercastes in Kerala, especially in Kerala where the caste scenario was quite disastrous. I felt very sad and sorry for all things those people beared....That is why I wanted that image to be cleared.... Anyways I'm very Thankful. AARYA SAJAYAN (talk) 14:32, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 April 2021
Can you use this ancient traditional wedding photo in section History-Legende where they have mentioned the martial origin of the community as Another version of the story says that the king sent eight martial families at the request of a Chera king to quell a civil war that had erupted against him. The traditional wedding attire of thiyyar bridegroom and companions with raised swords in hand shows their martial lineage.

The traditional attire of Thiyyar (Tiyya) Bridegroom and companions who dressed as warriors and holding raised sword in their right hand,in 1912,showing the martial tradition of the community.Thiyyar marriages are called as Mangalam,the corrupt word for Mangalyam.
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: Photo added in the culture section. I don't see the relevance to this being in the legend section. SSSB (talk) 08:39, 21 April 2021 (UTC)


 * Ok . better if you add the year too, that is year: 1912,place : Kozhikode in your way in the description of the photo ( it is there in original photo description )
 * 100 years old photos have their historical relevance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.201.197.144 (talk) 04:10, 23 April 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 08:16, 23 April 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 May 2021
In the first paragraph "In the present day, the Ezhavas are classified as an Other Backward Class by the Government of India under its system of positive discrimination."

This is already added in apt place in right section under Position in society already.

Request to remove that redundant sentence from the beginning of the article in first para.
 * ❌ for now: I don't understand your argument. The lead is supposed to summarise the articles content, so this seems perfectly fine to me. SSSB (talk) 08:41, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

See it is not important which reservation category in government list they belong. The thing is already added in Position in society. If you look other caste pages in India, it is not a convention to add that in the very beginning ...for eg look Yadav,Iyer,Pulayar, Mudaliar or look for any caste pages. It is not a import thing which category in reservation this caste belongs, may be you can add down,here it as been already added.

Also, it is not sourced also.

Request to remove that sentence, as the same sentence is already added down- in which governent reservation category they belong.
 * Thank you for your input! As mentioned before, the lead summarizes the rest of the article's content, so the OBC description has been included in the lead as a summary of the content in the "Position in society" section. Also, the OBC description is sourced in the "Position in society" section, so it does not have to be sourced in the lead section. Thanks again!  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 12:52, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and sourced the claim in the lead section as well. Thanks again!  P.I. Ellsworth   ed.  put'r there 12:57, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 May 2021 (4)
Alummoottil Tharavad is an aristocratic Ezhava family hailing from the central Travancore region in Kerala. During the 17th and 18th century the Tharavad was responsible for supplying infantry and light cavalry for the army of the Maharaja of Kayamkulam and Travancore. Although, involved heavily in the military machinery of the kingdom, the business empire, wealth and assets of the Tharavad would rather have qualified it in the Vaishya sect, if it existed within Kerala Chaturvarna ladder. http://alummoottil.com/home.htm#:~:text=Alummoottil%20Tharavad%20is%20an%20aristocratic,Maharaja%20of%20Kayamkulam%20and%20Travancore.&text=Sponsored%20by%20Ezhava%20Community. 59.97.59.135 (talk) 17:33, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:38, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 5 May 2021 (2)
Lord Ayyappa was trained at Cheerappanchira, an Ezhava Kalari located at Muhamma, Alappuzha. Many ezhavas were soldiers in Royal service. 59.97.59.135 (talk) 16:56, 5 May 2021 (UTC)


 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format also provide a reliable source for the changes. Outlander 07@talk 17:06, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Alummoottil Tharavad is an aristocratic Ezhava family hailing from the central Travancore region in Kerala. During the 17th and 18th century the Tharavad was responsible for supplying infantry and light cavalry for the army of the Maharaja of Kayamkulam and Travancore. Although, involved heavily in the military machinery of the kingdom, the business empire, wealth and assets of the Tharavad would rather have qualified it in the Vaishya sect, if it existed within Kerala's Chathurvarna ladder. 59.97.59.135 (talk) 17:09, 5 May 2021 (UTC)


 * ❌ for now: You are asked to provide a reliable source for the changes to be made. Outlander 07@talk 17:14, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

Could you please add these after checking the facts? Abhiram Chekavar (talk) 11:10, 6 May 2021 (UTC)


 * It is the responsibility of the person making the request to supply sources to verify their claims. These sources need to be provided before this request can be implemented. Additionally, where should this be added? SSSB (talk) 11:25, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 May 2021
The theory related to caste system in kerala regarding the Jain was wrong. The nairs are kshethriya they are not given shudra status Allow to edit such things Kailash1234 (talk) 13:13, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. R.C Outlander07@talk 13:16, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

This wikipedia page is providing misinformation.and showing one sided things only
The page lacks proper information about notable ezhava personalities and is totally misleading Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 14:54, 1 July 2021 (UTC)


 * That's what the page List of Ezhavas is for. R.C Outlander07@talk 15:23, 1 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Misleading how? Unless you tell us why it is misleading/biased we can't help to improve it. SSSB (talk) 15:51, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

This page is spreading misinformation and is dragging some other community into the plot
The page is spreading misinformation and is very misleading since it is not talking about ,impotant personalities of ezhavas ,instead is talking about some.imaginary figures from some other community without showing full facts. the page is purposefully trying to spread one sided contents ,and is defaming a community.we would have to move legally ,if it remains uncorrected. so i request the administrators to make suitable changes ,because the details of alumootil family ,etc was removed recently by some fake news pedrators and about some misleading people and instead misinformation is spreading. also this page dont talk about panickers a prominent community inside ezhavas. so in all cases this page is completely spreading one sided misinformations. I hope admins would make proper changes before faving further actions. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 07:14, 2 July 2021 (UTC)


 * As pointed out above, this article is about Ezhavas in general (culture, history etc.) Important indivduals are (generally) not within this article's scope, but within the scope of List of Ezhavas instead. If you feel that there is an Ezhava who warrants a mention on this page, please bring up that specific example, as it is not clear which important personalities you wish to add. Likewise, could you specify which specific imaginary figures you are talking about. If you think that this page is missing facts, then please list (with wp:reliable sources) facts you would like to be added to the article.
 * I completely reject the notion that this page is being deliberately biased or is defaming to the community. You ask Wikipedians to make suitable changes, but I cannot do this unless you tell us specificly and explictly what you would like to see added/removed. Please phrase requests in the form of "change x to y" or "add x to y".
 * Finally, threating legal action will not get you anywhere. SSSB (talk) 08:50, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2021 (3)
I would like to add one more verified image image. " https://i2.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Picture1-16.jpg Source: an ezhava family from the early 20th " century from the book "glimpses of travancore ". Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 19:09, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: We cannot use copyrighted images owned by others. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:14, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2021 (2)
I would like to remove the second image called chogan.jpg as it is sterorypical instead add i.ages from verified source https://i2.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Picture1-15.jpg Source : fom the book by L.k iyer and source is provided with it Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 18:59, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: We cannot use copyrighted images, same as below. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:15, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Image request
https://i2.wp.com/www.opindia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/Picture1-15.jpg The image of ezhava gitls from the book by L.k krishna iyer please upload this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Redbutterfly0987 (talk • contribs) 18:43, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * We cannot use copyrighted images owned by others. SSSB (talk) 21:30, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 31 March 2021
Lord Ayyappa got trained in the Kalarippayattu martial arts at Cheerappanchira Kalari that belonged to Ezhava tharavad in Muhamma, Alappuzha. 117.206.43.67 (talk) 07:50, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. SSSB (talk) 08:44, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Maybe he thought about adding about Cheerappanchira. Image is available Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 14:48, 2 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok, I will explain, also I can see many requests to add ezhavar's old Kalari traditions below such as aloomootil etc. Let me explain this firstly , as you are all foreigners, you might not be knowing the Hindu god Ayyappan in Sabarimala. He is a warrior hindu god born in kerala and Sabarimala is one of the top pilgrimage site in India.

This great Hindu god Ayyappa trained and studied warfare from a Thiyya Kalari called Cheerappanchira. Since this great hindu god learned warfare and fighting from this thiyya kalari. it is notable to add in the page, which would be symbolising the Thiyya's kalari traiditon. Already a section is there called Chekavar in the page you can add this pic to it somewhere as an example, since we could not add all historical kalaris in this Wikipedia article but can add this one as an example.

Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira

Also please don't change the description of the image.

So all together, under chekavar section or somewhere near History (which says ,There are myths of origin for the Ezhava. According to some Malayalam folk songs like Vadakkan Pattukal[13][which?] and legend, the Ezhavas were the progeny of four bachelors that the king of Ceylon (Sri Lanka) sent to what is now Kerala at the request of the Chera king Bhaskara Ravi Varma, in the 1st century CE) you can add this pic to give a proof of thiyya kalaris

The image caption it is said Cheerappan Chira Kalari, Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar Kalari, which trace their origin to Kadathanadu. Here the article says Thiyyas were from North Malabar and is sourced, then how it would be a Thiyyar Kalari even the Cheerappanchira article itself says as an Ezhava Tharavad located in Travancore? R.C Outlander07@talk 13:42, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

They were from kadathanad area, present day vadakara. So it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.222.167.243 (talk) 13:52, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

As it is like a contradictory statement a reliable source would help better for the proposed changes. R.C Outlander07@talk 13:59, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. – Jonesey95 (talk) 15:32, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

Ok, right. Please add this photo in the history section which shows ezhava ancient ezhava kalari tradition, for explanation please see above-posted things.

Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. R.C Outlander07@talk 15:52, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

few reliable source : https://www.mathrubhumi.com/spirituality/specials/sabarimala-2019/features/cheerappanchira-moolasthanam-malikappuram-1.4337851

https://www.newindianexpress.com/magazine/2015/jan/24/In-Memory-of-a-Warrior-Deity-709189.html

Why are you reverting the edit request status? R.C Outlander07@talk 16:13, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yellow check.svg Partly done: The provided source doesn't mention their Kadathanad tradition so the image caption has changed as apposite to the main Cheerappanchira article. R.C Outlander07@talk 16:29, 11 May 2021 (UTC)  R.C Outlander07@talk 16:29, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

This one would serve the purpose: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIOD9NUKvYM, watch from 3mins

From the stream 3:23, it is heard they taught the Kadathanadan Poozhi style to Lord Ayyappa and no mention was made of their origin. As it is a caste-related article a scholarly material will definitely serve the purpose rather than legendary newspaper articles and video documentaries.WP:RS. R.C Outlander07@talk 07:50, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

The page is spreading misinformation. Chirappanchira is a panicker Ezhava family from southern kerala ,also the page dont speak about alumootil channar,varanappilly house ,muloor house etc. and is spreading misinformation. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 07:18, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cheerappan_Chira_Kalari,Room_used_by_Lord_Swamy_Ayyappa_when_he_was_staying_and_training_in_this_ancient_Thiyyar_Chekavar_kalari,which_trace_their_origin_to_Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma_worshipped_at_Shabarimala_is_from_cheerappanchira.jpg This is chirappanchira ezhava family. sree narayana guru's picture is worshipped there .and it is situated in alappuzha or southern kerala where the name of the community is ezhavas ,also recently information about varanappally family ,alumootio family got deleted by some people who want to spread misinformation. I request administrators to verify things multiple times before writing. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 07:24, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

If you think the image caption is misleading, a discussion can be started regarding the same on Wikimedia Commons here. R.C Outlander07@talk 05:02, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 2 July 2021
I would like to state that the citation of the image you have published in the history is false and from an unverified source.please change the citation of the image in the history. Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 18:53, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

The image of chirappanchira kalari from the history section is showing a misleading and unverified website please look into that and make necesaary changes. Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 19:10, 2 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please explain the issue with the image. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:18, 2 July 2021 (UTC)

The citation of the image is false Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 00:40, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

"[[File:Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira.jpg|thumb" the above is propogated with a false amd unverified citation and non matching source [[User:Redbutterfly0987|Redbutterfly0987]] (talk) 08:50, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021
I would like to remove the content "The Malabar Thiyyar group have claimed a higher ranking in the Hindu caste system than do the others, although from the perspective of the colonial and subsequent administrations they were treated as being of similar rank" from this page as this is misleading in all ways in a page called "ezhavas" as this is itself is a claim without validity or relevance here, and is going to unnecessary topics ans is creating a negative atmosphere regarding a community. Also i would like to note that the description about a community or page of a community shouldn't be misused for political disputes. So please remove it as it is totally irrelavent and invalid in a page called "ezhavas ". Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 01:41, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant. The sentence is also sourced, so it is a claim that is verified. SSSB (talk) 10:45, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021 (2)
I would like to remove the image "" as it is misleading in a page called ezhavas amd it not relevant here. Such images should be added in a separate page of the community. This is misleading in a page called "ezhavas" Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 01:56, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant. SSSB (talk) 10:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Irrelavant and outdated infirmation
I would like to remove the sentence "Thiyyar dynasties such as the Mannanar existed in Kerala. " from the article since it is very much irrelevant in a page called "ezhava". Also there is clearly no need of mentioning it in a page called "ezhava" when the page itself mentions that the claim is in dispute also recent govt order have granted separate identity to both communities. So in such a sensitive situation it is extremely unacceptable such writing in a page called "ezhavas". Also i humbly request to unbiased administrators to allow only images and information related to ezhava in an ezhava page, as otherwise it is potraying the community negatively in its own page, which might be rare among wikipedia pages. I hope administrators wouod have understood the sensitivity of such an issue in community ridden indian society and i request administrators to make sure that the content of the page is relatable to the hading "Ezhava " provided. Otherwise it would come under defaming the name of a community. I hope unbiased administrators would take necessary steps by understanding the sensitivity of the issue. Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 08:17, 3 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant. Also see my repsonses to some of your previous edit requests above SSSB (talk) 10:52, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021 (3)
I would like to remove the image From the section since it is irrelevant in a page called "ezhavas " and i belive that a platform like wikipedia shouldnt be used for political disputes or to defame a community under some fake names. The page mentions about "ezhavas" while the information is about some others. Some people are trying to create unenecesaary controversy or publicity using some other name. The page is about ezhavas and the administrator should make sure that the information given in this page is about ezhavas rather than some others who want to create controversy. I can say this because i am a part of this community and i feel 1. The wikipedia page called " ezhavas " lacks most of the information about ezhavas. And is filled with the content of other community who is trying to defame or create a negative information. 2. In The wikipedia page called "ezhavas", except one , all of the the images and other contents are created by some other community to gain publicity or to create controversy through the name or description of a community. Also i request the admin to take this into further consideration and only allow pictures or information of ezhava caste in "ezhava "page and dont give others history or others information as ezhavas. Please consider this in future too. The information about ezhavas should only be provided in an ezhava page. Others should create their own page. Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 02:23, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant.

A platform like Wikipedia shouldn't be used for political disputes (apart from to document them) but I don't see how this image's inclusion contributes to that, or is defamatory.

If you feel that it is inappropriate for Wikipedia to consider Thiyyar and Ezhavas as synomous, please start a WP:SPLIT discussion. SSSB (talk) 10:51, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * , I don't know about splitting, but Redbutterfly0987 has a point regarding the images, the images are almost entirely about Thiyyars. It should be addressed. 2409:4073:41A:DC51:7C4F:9AC1:95B3:FB25 (talk) 11:45, 3 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Splitting is not going to happen and has been discussed here. I think it is quite reasonable for someone to argue the usage of images with unverifiable captions to support the supremacy over the other. The images and their captions might a part of POV work and should be scrutinized.  R.C Outlander07@talk 12:21, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That wasn't Redbutterfly0987's point, their point was that Thiyyar and Ezhava are not synonymous, but Wikipedia's stance is that they are. They are just regional names for the same group. Therefore, as far as Wikipedia is concerned, it a Thiyyar image is an Ezhava image. And even if that were not the case, I count 4-3 in favour of Thiyyar, which is as close as you are going to get with 7 images. SSSB (talk) 12:54, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Nope that was my point since i the images are entirely about thiyyas Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 16:32, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021 (4)
"I would like to remove the image [[File:Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira.jpg|thumb" as this is a false image and the source amd citation shown in this image is mismatching . Also the image is very misleading as such an image is not seen in any source and also the description of the image is very much misleading as it talks about "thiyyar " and such an image or decsription is not mentioned in any of the sourves available including the official site of chirappanchira family or any credible sources.so i humbly request to the admins to make necessary changes as soon as possible as a platform like Wikipedia need to be protected from vandalism.


 * undefined Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 08:46, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: According to the lead of this article, and some results I found in search engines, Thiyyar and Ezhava are considered to be the same. Therefore, I fail to see how this content is irrelevant. Also see my repsonses to some of your previous edit requests above SSSB (talk) 10:54, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Sorry the image is fake as it is leading to a site called "theeyavamsam" and the description and the image dont match. i wonder how such a misinformation is spreading through a locked page. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 16:47, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:49, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

High level of vandalism propogating through this page - if allowed like this it will create more issues.
I would like to bring into the notice of admin that high level of vandalism is propogating throuh this page with/ without the support of admins I would like to make the situation a bit clear before you ask for formats. 1. The heading of this page is "Ezhava" ,while the irony is that in the first pragraph itself 2 images are being conpared i dont know the reason for that. and one is the image of a thiyyar girl .and the second one is the image of a farmer ezhava couple while the page dont specifies any separate occupation or race or any distinctiveness of the both. so it is clear that this is a propogamda to create stereotypes or a form.of racism that too when other images of ezhavas are available which is a big cyber offense. Also the same page was criticised for spreading a cropped image of thiyyas as ezhavas that too in the comparing section .later it got removed after heavy critics. 2. Second point. The page is providing an outdated citation and with the help of that is trying to defame both ezhava and one other community. we can clealry say that because we are natives and can defenitely understand the emotional sentiments or consequences that may happen after propogating a big vandalism through a playform like wikipedia 3. If thiyyas and ezhavas are exactly same according to admin then what is the reason for specifically mentioning thiyyas and ezhavas in certain areas? So indont know the intention behind it. But the fact is that the second paragraph itself mentions that thiyyas do claim upper status in hindu heirarchy than others and ironically the page is spreading images of thiyyas only in a page called ezhavas. so if you consider both as exactly same then remove the separate mentions of thiyyas and ezhavas. also the page itself mentions dispute beetween ezhavas and thiyyas. So i would like to know the point in giving lot of thiyya images and one stereotype ed painting of ezhava couple in a page called "ezhava " while the page itself mentions dispute at the end that means all of the images in this page are related to dispute. An eg is given below. https://malayalam.samayam.com/local-news/kannur/thiyyas-are-not-ezhavas-says-theeyyakshemasabha/articleshow/80742726.cms Also i would like to point out that there is already a page called thiyya in wikipedia so i dont see ezhava photos there. these mentioned facts clealry states that about 70 percent images and contents provided in this page is heavily vandalised and influenced and is filled with disputed claims. so i humbly request admin to take some time and read the whole article of this page and please understand what is the page trying to do. Also in in the history section, the image of chirappanchira kalari family provided is totally fake as the image is leading to a site called thiyyavamsam of kadathanadan tradition. While the description is some other .the souce provided is also invalid. And the page is abusing one other community too. 3. Also in a page called ezhava except one all images are from thiyya community who have dispute with ezhavas as mentioned by the page itself. so it is a big evidence to point out the attempts of vandalisation happended in this page. in short this is a page with disputed claims. Other wise the title of the page need to be changed to thiyyas rather than using our name 'ezhava' especially when dispute is there. This page is also talking bad about others communities. While we "ezhava " as per the name of this page dont want to indulge or participate in the defamation of others through our name. Inshort this page is deliberately, trying to misuse the name of 'ezhava' for political purpose of some others. 4. Now on a closing note i would like to mention that as a member of the community as per name of this page ,i can clearly say that this article is the most vandalised article on wikipedia working under some hidden agenda to defame and abuse mainly 3 communities namboodiries ,nairs and ezhavas by using the name of 'ezhavas '. Either with the support or by misleading the adminstrators for sure. As per lot of people pointed out ,one or more people are deliberately working behind vandalising the page of different communities in kerala ,so as 'ezhavas'. I would like to make this in attention of the administrators and other readers that please protect your self from misleading contents and misappropriation. Also i would like to say that we all are extremely humilated and hurted by the intellectually weak and cherry picked at the same time stereotyped content of this page. This is indeed a serious issue which should be reported to more higher authorities to prevent heavily disputed and vandalised contents through a great platform like wikipedia. Also we are planning to take possible legal actions against such defamations and stereotypings made by this page and for misusing name of ezhavas. The thiyyas and ezhavas are people who are living in different geolocations and have extremely different cultures. I dont know through which angle you are comparing with others and defaming ezhavas in a page called ezhavas unless someone have an intention to purposely do cyber bullying of these communities. So as i mentioned ,these images are cherrypicked and uncomparable related to the disputes mentioned in the page itself. so we would like to move to further actions and complaints if these facts remained vandalised again. and this not any legal threat but fight for justice and truth and an example of fight against cyber bullying ,stereotyped racism and misusal of identity and other online crimes which are spreading nowadays. remember justice delayed is justice denied. so i hope the adminsitrator will take the emotions of these communities seriously as it is tarnishing the name of different communities through this page .It is not a simple issue in community ridden indian society ,again i hope admin understand the intensity and seriousness of the situation. No one can misuse the name of a community for propoganda and it is unjustifiable,otherwise the editors are requested to change the name of the article from ezhavas to some other like "propoganda of caste fanatics " or thiyyas or any things else ,rather than tarnishing our name ,else i am compelled to make it in your kind attention that the admin or the people who allowed this kind of stereotypes would be solely responsible for the defamations ,humilation and other afer effects that happens. waiting for a justified and satisfactory repsonse from admin .thankyou. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 13:36, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * I'm not able to cover all of this now, but: 1. The heading of this page is "Ezhava" ,while the irony is that in the first pragraph itself 2 images are being conpared - this is no longer the case. They are both captioned at being Ezhava (as the article lead identifies "Ezhava" and "Thiyyar" to be synomous (they are local names for the same group) The page is providing an outdated citation and with the help of that is trying to defame both ezhava and one other community. - can you please specify which citation is concerning you. If thiyyas and ezhavas are exactly same according to admin then what is the reason for specifically mentioning thiyyas and ezhavas in certain areas? - this is no longer the case. so if you consider both as exactly same then remove the separate mentions of thiyyas and ezhavas. - done, with the exception of the dispute section where a distinction is justifed (as we are reporting the claim that they are distict) Also i would like to point out that there is already a page called thiyya in wikipedia so i dont see ezhava photos there. - the page Thiyya redirects to Ezhava. SSSB (talk) 17:19, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:50, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021 (6)
Thiyas and Ezhvar are different pls refer the book Lanka Parvam by T Dhamu .they are not the same cast or tThiyya is not a sub cast of Ezhvar both have different linage 117.213.113.5 (talk) 17:57, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * ❌ - the majority of sources consider them to be the same. We, that is to say Wikipedia, therefore follow this stance. This has been discussed numerous. Please note that this argument is included within the article. SSSB (talk) 18:11, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 July 2021
I would like to add one image to the article as i think that it would improve the content. Ref : Glimpses of travancore (page 129):https://dspace.gipe.ac.in/xmlui/bitstream/handle/10973/33949/GIPE-005128.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y Page 129 I humbly request admin to add the image as it would improve the coverage of images from all sections of ezhava. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 13:21, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Run n Fly (talk) 19:15, 4 July 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:23, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Cheerappan Chira Kalari,Room used by Lord Swamy Ayyappa when he was staying and training in this ancient Thiyyar Chekavar kalari,which trace their origin to Kadathanadu.Malikapurathamma worshipped at Shabarimala is from cheerappanchira.jpg

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 3 July 2021 (5)
I would like to change the sentence from "Thiyyar dynasties such as the Mannanar existed in Kerala. " to "Izhava dynasties such as [Mannanar] existed in kerala  " as that is what the citation provided implies ref: cyricac pulappilly page no:31-32 kindly read it correct the error. Worldofknowledge121 (talk) 16:23, 3 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done SSSB (talk) 16:49, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Users   and  has been banned from Wikipedia for Sockpuppetry and vandalization. As per Wikipedia rule, all edits and edits via edits requests made by sockpuppets have to be reverted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.221.180.157 (talk) 06:27, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not what the rule says. I could revert their edit, but, they raised a very valid point, so if I would simply reinstate the edit with the same argument. So I don't really see the point in reverting it. SSSB (talk) 07:42, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Answered by SSSB ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:49, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Heavy vandalism
It is clear that the page is desperately trying potray one as superior over other, through a page called "ezhava" when the page itself mentions dispute beetween both. Also i would like to know the reason behind comparing two images " and " in a page called "ezhava" When the page itself mention about disputes beetween both communities. There is deliberate attempt to potray one as fakely superior over the other from the side of admins. Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 14:20, 3 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Yes check.svg Done I have changed the captions so that they both use Ezhava. SSSB (talk) 16:51, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks a lot. God bless you Redbutterfly0987 (talk) 18:39, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

Hi, Users   and  has been banned from Wikipedia for Sockpuppetry and vandalization. As per Wikipedia rule, all edits and edits via edits requests made by sockpuppets have to be reverted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.221.180.157 (talk) 06:27, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * That's not what the rule says. I could revert their edit, but, they raised a very valid point, so if I would simply reinstate the edit with the same argument. So I don't really see the point in reverting it. SSSB (talk) 07:36, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Answered by SSSB ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:50, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Heavy Vandalism
This page is Created for ezhava community history, spreading misinformation and trying to hijack another community's history. Ezhava and Thiyyar are entitly different communities but this page shows Thiyyars history and pictures labeled as Ezhava which is criminal offense according to indian cyber crime law. Editers of Ezhava page showing highly criminal behavior against another community. Arsalanactual (talk) 05:04, 19 July 2021 (UTC)


 * Ezhava and Thiyyar are entitly different communities - not according to this article, or the majority of sources that I have seen. As Ezhava and Thiyyar are regional names for the same group (i.e. Synonyms), it is entirely appropriate to use a consistent label throughout the article. Note that Wikipedia is not subject to Indian cyber laws, and until you provide me with that law I'm afraid I simply don't believe you. It makes no sense that you aren't allowed to label Thiyyar images as Ezhava when Thiyyar and Ezhava are the same SSSB (talk) 08:43, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 14:08, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
 * The traditional attire of Thiyyar (Tiyya) Bridegroom and companions who dressed as warriors and holding raised sword in their right hand ,in 1912.jpg

Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:38, 20 September 2021 (UTC)
 * A Thiyyar Moopan Painting.jpg
 * Young Thiyyar gentleman in British service holding title of Amsham Adhikari,Rao Bahadur and Menon in south malabar.jpg

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 30 September 2021
Thiyyas of malabar are not eezhavas of Travancore. Besides that by providing reservation for eezhavas and Thiyyas collectively. eezhavas getting most(11% of total 14%)of it while thiyyas are getting less than 2%. This Discrimination Can only stop ifReservation provided with respect to population. 117.230.173.101 (talk) 03:32, 30 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Wikipedia's long-standing stance (based on reliable secondary sources) is that the Thiyyas of Malabar are the Ezhavas, just with a different name based on the geographic region you happen to be in. SSSB (talk) 07:52, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

Polyandry Among Ezhavas
Polyandry was widespread among the Ezhava community till the mid of twentieth century. Brothers sharing a wife was a norm in the community. Almost all history books states this fact, but it is missing in the article.

Puthukkudy1 (talk) 18:21, 29 November 2021 (UTC) 18:24, 29 November 2021 (UTC)Puthukkudy1 (talk)

Puthukkudy1 (talk) 18:37, 29 November 2021 (UTC) Puthukkudy1 (talk) 18:39, 29 November 2021 (UTC)


 * ✅ SSSB (talk) 09:32, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

Absence of 'Marriage Customs' subsection
Almost all wikipedia pages on different communities have a 'Marrriage Customs' subsection. But it is missing in this article. Marriage rituals and customs like Thaliketttu Kalyanam, Polyadndry, abolishment of Marumakkathayam and the adoption of patriliny definitely deserves special mentions under a separate subsection in the article. It cannot be avoided, as these systems were followed for centuries in the community. Puthukkudy1 (talk) 14:49, 3 December 2021 (UTC)


 * If you give me what text you'd like this section to include (with sources) I'll be more than happy to add it.... Unless I'm misunderstanding you, and all this information is already in the article, and you'd just like it grouped together? SSSB (talk) 16:26, 4 December 2021 (UTC)

White Thiyyas
Relation between Thiyyas of Malabar and colonial powers was such strong that it cannot be ignored in the article. No report of Thiyyas are complete without the reference of 'White Thiyyas'. White Thiyyas are the Thiyyas born out of the temporary union of Thiyya women with European men. All foreign travellers visiting Malabar and all historians have stated this, and it is an important fact which cannot be ignored in any article regarding Ezhava/Thiyya.

Robin Jeffrey, in his book 'Politics, Women and Well-Being: How Kerala became a Model', pg no.50, states that:

'Tiyyas in north Malabar fared better than in south Malabar, perhaps because land was more readily available. They were matrilineal before the British East India company estalished forts at Telicherry and Cannanore in the early eighteenth century, and some Tiyya families permitted their women to form liaisons with Europeans. A small community — the so-called ‘white Tiyyas’ — resulted, and though the suggestion of concubinage with Europeans became a great embarrassment in the twentieth century, such arrangements brought considerable advantage in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Tiyyas in north Malabar, even if not members of ‘white Tiyya’ families, developed a smoother relationship with the European rulers than Hindus elsewhere in Kerala. The British, unlike Kerala's princes readily employed Tiyyas, and Tiyya factotum became a constant companion of some British officials.'

Puthukkudy1 (talk) 11:58, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * Isn't it common for colonial powers and the (for want of a better word) "locals" to mix like this? I would suggest that it's only worth mentioning if there is evidence such relationships were forced or otherwise contraversial. Additionally, I am not sure how you to implement this in the article. Could you please re-work this request in the form of Please add the following to section x: "..." Thanks, SSSB (talk) 15:04, 30 November 2021 (UTC)


 * It was never common for locals to mix with foreigners. Caste Hindus considered it a grave mistake to mix with lower castes or foreigners. In Kerala, caste Hindus or Hindus of lower castes than Ezhava/Thiyya never had such a custom. Thiyyas made such union with white men for financial and social gains. From Barbosa travelling to Kerala in sixteenth century to Robin Jeffrey travelling Kerala in twentieth century, all have explicitly noted this. White relation of Tiyyas was a norm, not an exception, and it lasted for five centuries. Thiyya mix with Europeans and the resulting White Thiyya section are an integral part of Thiyya/Ezhava history, and I dont find any reason not to include it in the article. You may include it as a subsection under 'Customs'. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Puthukkudy1 (talk • contribs) 16:28, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Not done for now: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide reliable in-line sources. Then I will be happy to implement. Thanks, SSSB (talk) 10:20, 1 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Please add the subsection 'Thiyya relation with Europeans' under the 'Custom' section.


 * Robin Jeffrey, in his book 'Politics, Women and Well-Being: How Kerala became a Model', pg no.50, states that:


 * 'Tiyyas in north Malabar fared better than in south Malabar, perhaps because land was more readily available. They were matrilineal before the British East India company estalished forts at Telicherry and Cannanore in the early eighteenth century, and some Tiyya families permitted their women to form liaisons with Europeans. A small community — the so-called ‘white Tiyyas’ — resulted, and though the suggestion of concubinage with Europeans became a great embarrassment in the twentieth century, such arrangements brought considerable advantage in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. Tiyyas in north Malabar, even if not members of ‘white Tiyya’ families, developed a smoother relationship with the European rulers than Hindus elsewhere in Kerala. The British, unlike Kerala's princes readily employed Tiyyas, and Tiyya factotum became a constant companion of some British officials.'     Puthukkudy1 (talk) 11:00, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I've put that quote in my own words and added the relevant bits to the article, as well as the citation for that quote. I haven't quoted the other sources, as I haven't used them (you didn't specify any information you wanted to use from them). As I only added the one reletively short paragrapgh, I didn't add the header. Thanks, SSSB (talk) 11:53, 1 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Thiyya women never married Europeans. It was temporary union or concubinage. You may please correct that. All references I provided states the relation as concubinage, not marriage. Because the European men would have wives back at their homes. You may also add the below statement:


 * 'Ezhavas now commonly remember their past as one in which their women were sometimes prostitutes to Nair men, yet Ezhavas often boast that their women in Tallassery are famous for their beauty, which - given that female beauty is largely assimilated to pallor of skin tone - appears to refer to the results of past liaisons with Europeans'


 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Puthukkudy1 (talk • contribs) 14:45, 1 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I corrected my Marriage error. Could you please clarify where you would like me to add that statement. Thanks, SSSB (talk) 17:01, 4 December 2021 (UTC)


 * You may add it along with the White Thiyya reference under customs.

It would be better to include Sitush here in the talk page discussion. R.C Outlander07@talk 16:42, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Then I'll ping him:. But I'm not going to actively seek him out. If this is an area of interest, it is his responsibility to check on the article. SSSB (talk) 10:20, 6 December 2021 (UTC)

The picture claiming to be an Ezhava couple
This picture is not properly cited. It might be a part of vandalism. Please remove it. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malayalee0121 (talk • contribs) 10:40, 8 December 2021 (UTC)


 * This needs to be followed up at the file's page on commons. The course of action you want to take, with accompying instructions can be found at https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_policy#Reasons_for_deletion. Thank you, SSSB (talk) 11:09, 8 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 December 2021
Add this image of Thiyya family and women  CoachEzhupunna (talk) 13:24, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. Per the discussion at Talk:Ezhava/Archive 9  SSSB (talk) 16:18, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

What is the purpose of these pictures in this article? This editor name CoachEzhupunna does not even have an account. Even if he had an account, the intention is clear, defamation and cyberbullying of the community. This picture was removed from the article Breast Tax, because it was irrelevant to the article. In my opinion, it is based on propaganda against Ezhavas. You have to note, in Kerala, Ezhavas and Ezhava elements are always been victims of cyberbullying and passive, propaganda-based acts of violence. There are reasons for this, since late 19th-century Ezhavas socially elevated their position. They now have modern houses and fancy cars and other modern/mainstream society living styles. The change is very significant. Even in North America, Europe, and other western countries, they have been a visible society that is organized and prospered. There are already 4 chief ministers from the community since the independence. Several cabinet ministers at both central and state levels, lots of IAS, IPS, and IFS officers are also showing this social forwardness of the community. There are millionaires and billionaires from the Ezhava community. So it is so hard for some people who think Ezhavas should be inferior to them or even the members of other communities who were historically lowest to Ezhavas to see this socio-political and economical advancement of the Ezhavas. They find the internet world a safe place to show these frustrations and jealousy. But all the prominent societies in the world (in Kerala Nairs, In India general, Marathas and Rajputs) have gone through these social changes. The prominence/dominance and social status of communities were never unchangeable or unstoppable. The global, national, economical, social, and political factors always play in this matter.

Examples of some vandalism and propaganda based editings

1. In an article named Cheerapanchira, and ancient Ezhava tharavad who has a renowned history of Kalaripayattu and is historically connected with Sabarimala. Someone edited as a "Chova Tharavadu". However it was undone and noted as vandalism, I can't believe someone will just dedicate their time to do something resourceless like that.

2. The picture of the women without covering their breast (claiming to be a Thiyya lady in Malabar) was posted in the article breast Tax, the breast tax was only applicable to Travancore subjects, why the picture of a lady from Malabar is relevant to the Travancore article. So we know the editor's intention.

3. The article named Tharavadu, the name of Ezhava will be frequently edited out from the list of communities who practiced Tharavad system. Everyone in Kerala knows that almost all the Hindu communities in Kerala practiced tharavadu, especially Nairs and Ezhavas. The people who are infected with casteism have a different meaning of tharavad and tharavadi, it should be only their problem, and a platform like Wikipedia should not be used for their dirty business.

I am just giving these examples to mention the intended cyber violence against Ezhavas in the digital world. The Hindu society including upper, middle, and lower castes practiced the system of not covering their womens' upper waist area. It was considered traditionally moral for the Kerala Hindu community. But in 2021, some of us can not accept that, it is our own problem. If you google it, you can find upper-caste women without covering their breath too, why don't you suggest adding them to their Wikipedia articles?. I even remember in the 1980s when I grew up in central Travancore, there were grandmothers (mostly almost centuriens) both in Ezhava and Nair tharavads who just only occasionally covered their breasts. Also, living in Europe, I have seen women who feel comfortable going in public without covering their breasts, only outsiders (mostly Asians or Africans)stare at them, not the Europeans or westerners. So societies always have different opinions about this topic.

So if this picture will be added to the article without considering these factors, Wikipedia articles especially the caste-based articles will be a place for edit wars. We all have to avoid this and let us all work together to have an open-minded and non-judgemental approach to the subjects without any propaganda.

Have a great day everyone. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malayalee0121 (talk • contribs) 17:35, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 December 2021
Please mention the following in the spiritual and social movements section.

Between the Travancore census of 1875 and 1891, the literacy of Ezhava men had been increased from 3.15 percent to 12.1 percent. The 1891 census showed that there were at least 25000 educated Ezhavas in Travancore [1]. Dr. Palpu had support from Parameswaran Pillai who was editing the Madras Standard. He raised the issue of the rights of Ezhavas in a speech at the National Conference in Pune 1985, which was also editorialized in the Madras Standard. Pillai and Dr. Palpu also raised their questions regarding Ezhavas in the House of Commons in England in 1897. Dr. Palpu met with Swamy Vivekanda in Mysore and discussed the conditions of Ezhavas. Vivekanda has advised him to unite the Ezhava community under the leadership of a spiritual leader. He embraced this advice and associated with Sree Narayana Guru and formed the Sree Narayana Dharma Paripalana Yogam (S.N.D.P), registered in March 1903 [2]. By MID 1904, the emerging S.N.D.P Yogam, operating a few schools, temples, and a monthly magazine announced that it would hold an industrial exhibition with its second annual general meeting in Quilon in January 1901. The exhibition was skillful and successful and a sign of the awakening Ezhava community [3].

Reference

1. Jeffrey, Robin. (1994). Cash, Caste and Customs. The Decline of Nair Dominance: Society and Politics in Travancore 1847-1908. Manohar Classics. p.98.

2. Jeffrey, Robin. (1994). The Brahmin-Nair Official Elite and its competitors. The Decline of Nair Dominance: Society and Politics in Travancore 1847-1908.Manohar Classics. p.187-190.

3. Jeffrey, Robin. (1994). "Social Civil War". The Decline of Nair Dominance: Society and Politics in Travancore 1847-1908.Manohar Classics. p.187-190 Malayalee0121 (talk) 09:19, 8 December 2021 (UTC)


 * I oppose this. The content is wrong. Malayalee0121 is adithya kiran chekavar sock.CoachEzhupunna (talk) 13:19, 9 December 2021 (UTC)
 * You can't just assert that someone's a sock without any evidence. If you do have evidence, you have to bring it up at WP:SPI, who look into it further. SSSB (talk) 16:28, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

Thank you SSSB I don't know what is this person's problem with Ezhavas, and who is adithya kiran chekavar?. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malayalee0121 (talk • contribs) 17:42, 9 December 2021 (UTC)

CoachEzhupunna Why are you opposing, have you verified these facts in the book I have cited. Please do not object facts without any explanation. This edit suggestion is made as per reading and thorough cross checking. It is clearly cited.SSSB Please advise if I am wrong. Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.65.104.10 (talk) 15:54, 10 December 2021 (UTC)  Sorry, forgot to sign in before, hope it works.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 16:47, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

SSSB Hope you are doing great. The objecting editor is not giving proper explanation why he is opposing. This information here for the edit are from the book of renowned researcher and writer Robin Jeffrey, and the contents are properly cited. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malayalee0121 (talk • contribs) 14:19, 16 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Extended-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:33, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Table format on the right side of the article page
Could you please make a table format for this page on the right side like other Keralite communities?

Ezhava

An ancient Ezhava temple in 19th Century near Trivandrum

Total population 23% of the Kerala Population [1]

Regions with significant populations Kerala[1]

Languages Malayalam

Religion Hinduism

Reference 1.Radhakrishnan, M. G. (5 September 2012). "Caste-based organisations NSS, SNDP form Hindu Grand Alliance in Kerala". India Today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malayalee0121 (talk • contribs) 12:31, 8 December 2021 (UTC)


 * @SSSB Will you be able to edit this to the article. Thank you. Malayalee0121 (talk) 17:08, 12 December 2021 (UTC)
 * I haven't the time to add an infobox now, but I've added the edit request template, so hopefully someone will get to it (unless I remeber to do it when I get back). SSSB (talk) 09:44, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

SSSB Thank you, take your time.


 * Oppose: The source is giving different info when I compared to other links. The image is not from malabar also. It is irrelevant. CoachEzhupunna (talk) 10:46, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:09, 13 December 2021 (UTC)
 * just to be clear: you aren't opposed to the WP:INFOBOX itself, just to the proposed information? SSSB (talk) 14:17, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

CoachEzhupunna Why should the picture be from Malabar? please clarify, I am confused about your statement, thank you. Malayalee0121 (talk) 23:09, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

SSSB I don't know what are this editor's objections, regarding what content? CoachEzhupunna please share the links you compared, so we can discuss it here together, Thanks. As I asked prior, why the picture is irrelevant in your opinion? Why the picture need to be from Malabar, The community of Ezhava/Thiyya had been living historically throughout the state of Kerala, not just Malabar, that is already an established fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Malayalee0121 (talk • contribs) 14:30, 16 December 2021 (UTC)


 * Extended-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: The page's protection level has changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 13:33, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

This page contains misleading informations
Please remove misleading informations from this page Techbot-2 Architect XL5K (talk) 03:37, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 Feb 2022

 * Extended-protection-unlocked.svg Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:17, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
 * The article is move protected only, not edit protected. But the user may be reluctant to edit because I warned them. That would be a good thing, as the content they keep removing is well sourced. Calling it "defaming" is a sign of a caste warrior. Bishonen &#124; tålk 07:43, 5 February 2022 (UTC).

Defame a community as a whole
''Following the British settlement in Kerala, some Thiyya families, mostly in Southern Malabar, were taken as concubines by European colonisers and subsequently had children. This community was referred to as "white Thiyyas". Whilst this was considered advantageous in the 18th and 19th centuries, this became a source of embarrassment in the 20th century. The Thiyyas in northern Malabar, although less likely to form "white-thiyya" families,''

'''some families, reference book says that too in a small place called Thalassery maybe take it as 10 or 20 families, cannot be taken as the history of a community. Like 10-20 families were criminals doesn't mean generalization.

It is defaming the community as a whole and not a general history.

so please remove these things.

2601:14D:8701:9E40:4042:31B4:A5C0:E237 (talk)

Attempts of vandalisation
This page is getting vandalized by adding unrelated citations to confuse administrators, Most of these claims are by demeaning one and by praising others which are pure hoaxes and personal opinion based. I request Wikipedia admins to kindly look into this matter into concern. I truly believe that Wikipedia should not be a platform to spread hatred and racism against any community. The last two paragraphs( which got removed) in the customs section are a great example of that. unfortunately, they are using women to spread their hatred agenda this is brutual as well as offensive. Thank you Bilgiljilll (talk) 10:30, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * pinging who reverted the last time. &#128156;  melecie   talk  - 10:59, 15 March 2022 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pinging me., I summarily checked the source and it seems to state what the article actually says. Could you please better explain why you are thinking that the source is unrelated to what it states? --DoebLoggs (talk) 11:09, 15 March 2022 (UTC)Thanks

Request to protect the page.
I belive this page need to be locked, immediately there have been multiple attempts of vandalisation and to destroy citations. Just like any other ethnicity this page also need to be locked, as soon as possible. 2409:4073:4D8E:C973:9CCF:17CC:7D0B:AD29 (talk) 20:09, 15 March 2022 (UTC)

You should better ask for Page protection here at WP:RFPP with a reasonable explanation. R.C Outlander07@talk

Protection request
WP:RFPP this page need to be protected. 2409:4073:4D90:237C:95FC:C060:25ED:8E5D (talk) 11:41, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

You should better ask for Page protection here at WP:RFPP with a reasonable explanation. R.C Outlander07@talk

Please protect the page
The "related ethnicity" section faced nearly 6 vandal attacks. Further attempts need to be prevented. 2409:4073:4D90:237C:95FC:C060:25ED:8E5D (talk) 19:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2022
2409:4073:4D90:237C:3B26:3954:3518:61A5 (talk) 10:36, 18 March 2022 (UTC) Hello, thanks for page protection, however, some troubles were made on the page after the lock was dropped previously, I would like to add "traders ", to the second paragraph(starting from they used to work as ), as it is important, in almost all sources it is mentioned, the source  "Social mobility in Kerala " mentioned that around 15 percent of the community were traders. likewise, most of the prominent people from the community such as Kumaran Asan, etc were from merchant or traders families. I remember the word being there a few years ago, probably edited by some user, after the page was unlocked. In addition to that, the further section also details the lucrative trade, especially the coir trade which was performed by the community. Hence I feel it's important to mention trade in the section as it is important and makes the paragraph more informative.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:52, 18 March 2022 (UTC)

Vandalism
Someone is vandalising the page and deleting contwnts please check Bilgiljilll (talk) 17:28, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Again vandalism
I think this page need full protection else, sock puppets are removing sources content !!!!!!!!!Need an action Bilgiljilll (talk) 17:42, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 March 2022
I request to remove this lines from legend section .. Reason, The theory is not made up agenda ,the legend is older before forming these castes , already it is marked as legend , the given referance is the result of a genome study which talks nothing about the paragraph , and usually such opiniative sentences are not present within a legend. The referance is false and the paragraph is opinionative. The paragraph is below :

"This Srilankan Origin theory, which is considered as a made up agenda with caste suppression and intention in mind, is already proved to be wrong with the latest genome study. Also, it is impossible for an immigration community to become a majority community in Kerala, even after several mass conversions to Muslim and Christian communities. " Bilgiljilll (talk) 08:04, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

The given reference does not talk anything about this paragraph. Bilgiljilll (talk) 09:49, 29 March 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:02, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Thank you also I do feel that the upper sections within the community are not at all mentioned on the page, the page mentions more about the political and social movements of the community rather than the community in detail.Their lifestyle as well as culture is also not at all mentioned ,while it is mentioned in other pages Hence i would like to add the line,

Wealthy landlords as well as upper sections within the community were awarded honorific titles such as panicker from the local rulers.These people lived in nalukettu, had their own private temples and owned huge amount of land. "

Source : Osella, Filippo; Osella, Caroline (2000). Social Mobility in Kerala: Modernity and Identity in Conflict. Pluto Press. p. 55. ISBN 978-0-7453-1693-2.

Source in detail : Social mobility in kerala, page no 55, second paragraph. These people played a huge role in the community, but the page is not mentioning them.This is mentioned in the page panicker, but not mentioned in this page .Hence i request you to add this after veryfying the sources, so that the contentcan be detailed and improved. Bilgiljilll (talk) 12:05, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Osella, Filippo; Osella, Caroline (2000). Social Mobility in Kerala: Modernity and Identity in Conflict. Pluto Press. p. 55. ISBN 978-0-7453-1693-2. Bilgiljilll (talk) 12:06, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Osella, Filippo; Osella, Caroline (2000). Social Mobility in Kerala: Modernity and Identity in Conflict. Pluto Press. p. 8. ISBN 978-0-7453-1693-2. Bilgiljilll (talk) 12:07, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

I have provided the reference, kindly do verify it Bilgiljilll (talk) 12:08, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Bilgiljilll (talk) 12:33, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Bilgiljilll (talk) 12:33, 29 March 2022 (UTC)

Page no 55, second paragraph of the reference 2) Bilgiljilll (talk) 12:35, 29 March 2022 (UTC)