Talk:FCA F160 engine

Ferrari F160

Hi Akluch! I don't get why you change name of this engine from Ferrari F160 to FCA F160? Engine is (re)designed by Ferrari and have many similarities to Ferrari F154 engine family. And most importantly it's officially called F160. --FGA cheerleader (talk) 17:04, 21 October 2016 (UTC)

Hi FGA cheerleader, The engine isn't designed by Ferrari itself, neither it is built by it. They provide some parts for it. Letter F in the name can be used for marketing purposes, but still it is not Ferrari engine comparing to F154 or F136. --Akluch (talk) 02:18, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

Akluch, I didn't see your explanation behind your last edit. It's not full. It's true that Ferrari F160 engine share basic block design with Chrysler Pentastar. But that engine block is highly revised. As I said now it has many similarities to Ferrari modular F154 engine family. It even shares bore dimensions with F154. Head design is clearly designed by Ferrari same as block revisions. Some versions of F154 nad F160 even share pistons. And on the following link you can clearly see where engine is produced together with V8: http://www.alvolante.it/news/motore-v6-maserati-306067 And then there is even an official Ferrari document: http://corporate.ferrari.com/sites/ferrari15ipo/files/ferrari_nv_-_2015_20-f_feb_25_final_1_1.pdf I will citate that for you: "We produce V8 and V6 engines for Maserati. In particular, we have a multi-year arrangement with Maserati to provide V6 engines in an initial production run of up to 178,000 engines in aggregate through 2020, which, based on our discussions with Maserati, is expected to increase to up to 260,000 engines in aggregate through 2023 to cater to Maserati’s planned expanded model range and sales volumes." And then F160 is mentioned: " Since 2011, we have also been producing the new F160 3.0-litre V6 Turbo engine exclusively for Maserati. In 2015, we produced approximately 21,500 F160 engines for Maserati." And to put into perspective what Ferrari is outsourcing like (block) casting:"We source a variety of components (including transmissions, brakes, driving-safety systems, navigation systems, mechanical, electrical and electronic, plastic components as well as castings and tires), raw materials (aluminum, and precious metals including palladium and rhodium), supplies, utilities, logistics and other services from numerous suppliers." I hope that now it's 100% clear which design is F160 and where it is produced. --FGA cheerleader (talk) 10:03, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

Hi FGA cheerleader, Citing your source: "Since 2011, we have also been producing the new F160 3.0-litre V6 Turbo engine exclusively for Maserati." - it doesn't say anything that it is designed by Ferrari. F136 is co-designed by Ferrari and Maserati and used (with the differences though) in both Maserati and Ferrari cars. F154 - same story (a successor of F136) - used by both Ferrari and Maserati. F160 - used exclusively in Maserati Ghibli, Levante and lower end Quattroporte and again - derived from Chrysler Pentastar. It is not used in any Ferrari cars. F154 production isn't sourced. I also doubt regarding similarities of F154 and F160. F160 configuration:	60° V type. F154 configuration - 90° V type. If you look at Alfa Romeo Stelvio: it uses downsized Ferrari engine - that very same F154, but V6 instead of V8. The engine configuration for Stelvio is 2.9 L 90° V6 24v Twin turbo Ferrari F154 AT8 Q4 - very clear that it is Ferrari engine comparing with F160 one --Akluch (talk) 09:11, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

Akluch, a Pentastar based block does not mean Pentastar derived engine. As I said it shares bore dimensions with F160 engines. Also there is a resource in this article, you can deny it: Maserati's secret: Chrysler makes its engine blocks, which says: "He said the V-6, with twin turbochargers, was designed by Ferrari and also is being machined in Europe by supplier Weber Automotive GmbH. But demand for the Maserati sedans began outstripping Weber's ability to keep up earlier this year." So we can say it's a Ferrari design. Chrysler has no experience in design of modern turbocharged gasoline direct injection engines. V6 spin-off of F154 V8 engines is called Alfa Romeo 690T. Unlike F154 V8 and F160 V6 it's not produced by Ferrari. It's produced in old Fiat plant in Termoli. Engine blocks are produced by Mazucconi. There is a picture of it on Mazucconi web site and if you compare with California T block it's same just with 2 cylinders less. http://www.mazzucconi.com/uploads/gallerie/14/basamento.jpg Also it's mentioned in this OmniuAuto article: Alfa Romeo Giulia, quanto c'è di tedesco I even doubt that all F154 V8 blocks are casted by Ferrari which has a very limited resources but has excellent engineering team which obviously designed both Ferrari F154 V8 and Ferrari F160 V6 and also a Alfa Romeo 690T V6 engines. So for me the case is solved because we have reliable citation of engine design origins. --FGA cheerleader (talk) 21:31, 25 November 2016 (UTC)

FGA cheerleader, I still respectfully disagree. F160 has different configuration that F154 - it is 60° V type. Clearly it is different configuration. The Pentastar block is not the same as Ferrari block. Second, on Alfa Romeo engine: that engine has same configuration as F154 (90° V type), just downsized to 6 cylinders, and has same F154 designation. So, I disagree with the statement that Alfa Romeo engine isn't Ferrari, but Ghibli engine is. Because it is actually quite opposite. And F154 modification is used in Ferrari cars, F160 isn't used in any Ferrari cars (as I mentioned earlier): so if it is Ferrari, engine, why Ferrari didn't expose it to its cars as F136 and F154? Second, Harlow's words can be considered as said for ad purposes - to push Ghibli sales (which are not that great - but that's beyond the scope of this discussion). I think the cleanest way would be to name this page as Maserati F160 and put designer as Maserati. --Akluch (talk) 01:51, 26 November 2016 (UTC)