Talk:FIFA 08/Archive 2

Allsvenskan
Should the fact that four swedish team from Allsvenskan (AIK, Djurgården, IFK Göteborg and Hammarby IF) is not included with their correct dress, name och emblem be included in the article? (The players name are correct).Bramado 00:31, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * FIFA has been doing things like this for a while now, I don't know if the fact that teams from Sweden are "genericized" is new for 08, but if it is that would probably be notable, before I think it was only done with some of the "Rest of the World" teams. I would guess that this was becuase of the fact that some leagues don't have the right to license all of the teams within the league, much like clubs in Italy control their own TV rights.  I bet EA negotiated with the league and not with the individual clubs. Grant.alpaugh 05:06, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Playable Leagues
I don't understand why next to each league there is a caveat for those teams from other countries who play in that league. The Welsh teams in the English leagues for example. It isn't like these teams are added by EA Canada/FIFA for the purposes of the game. They play in the English divisions. Shouldn't this kind of information be for the league webpages, and those of the clubs, not in a game like FIFA. Plkrtn 12:33, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Originally there were two flags for those leagues (i.e. the Welsh and English flags next to the Premiership), but that resulted in a huge edit war (see above under "Ulster Banner next to FAI League") that required full protection which was only resolved by placing those notes. As for why they are there, it is for factual accuracy.  NA SC AR Fan 24 (radio me!) 20:56, 10 October 2007 (UTC)
 * But its irrelevant. They are Welsh teams that play in the English league. 90.197.137.115 16:38, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Read the above. They are there for factual accuracy. If they were to removed, it would start a whole new edit war, and the article would be fully protected again. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  NA SC AR Fan 24 (radio me!) 16:51, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Team Ratings?
Can anyone who already has the game maybe post the team ratings from all the leagues and international teams please? If not on the main article then just here in the discussion, if not all the leagues then just the star ratings for the polish league and the poloand internatioal team. It would be also cool if someone could post the ratings of polands starting 11 ill really appriciate it i dont have the game yet but and i want to know. Thanx so much...


 * Yeah, man, I'm sorry but that's just not going to happen. I for one will draw the line here as superfluous information, even though I champion(ed) the cause for the addition of the national teams and stadiums.  The article would become incredibly ridiculous in length because that would require a list of all the teams in all the leagues in the game.  So ya man it sounds like you're a big Poland fan, and it doesn't sound to me like if Poland have an unsatisfactory rating then you won't get the game so just save up and throw down the cash for the game when you can. Grant.alpaugh 04:57, 11 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Nahh its cool I don't really care, I just wanted to know their ratings on the game, but I still will get the game anyway and find out in couple days. Thats the only video game I ever play and I had every fifa since 2001, and yea I'am from Poland so I just wanted to know their team ratings and if u can post it here under the discussion, it doesn't have to be on the main article.

Cleanup
Can someone who is a little better at editing help make the stadiums section a little neater by making the third column wider so that it can not dip so much lower than the other columns in that section? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grant.alpaugh (talk • contribs) 02:03, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Home stadiums of national teams
I understand that for example Portugal's home stadium is not Dragão in reality, but when I edited the list yesterday I tried to remain faithful to the game. And in the game Portugal always play in Dragão. Therefore my question is what this list should represent: reality or the game? I suppose the latter one since this article is about the game. --89.133.241.190 10:58, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd say keep it the way it is in the game. As the article is about the game, shouldn't it first be accurate to the game and then to real life?  NA SC AR Fan 24 (radio me!) 11:50, 13 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree, and that's why the US are listed as playing the the Home Depot Center, because its the only stadium in the US in the game, so they always play there, etc. Grant.alpaugh 07:43, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Controversy
Why have this section? The game clearly states that the teams are correct of Aug 23. I'm going to delete it and it can be put elsewhere in the article if you see fit. ( user:Sevenplusone 22:02, 13 October 2007 (UTC) )

netherlands
it should be noted that they are only a cp-gen team, and unlicensed —Preceding unsigned comment added by Filo23 (talk • contribs) 12:40, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Netherlands (Holland) are unlicensed, as is Nigeria and I'm pretty sure a couple other national teams. However, the team is only "computer generated" in so much as the default squad isn't one that includes players like Van Persie, Sneijder, Robben, Van Bommel, etc.  One can easily go into the Team Management screen and change the squad to reflect current trends. Batman2005 23:50, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

What About...
This article only seems to be about the leagues, stadiums and soundtracks of the game. Whilst I agree tha they should be on the article what about the other tfeatures like: The new "be a pro" feature....DB Contribs 16:18, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
 * They formerly were in the article - just that there was a problem with editors copying material from the official website. If you can write a neutral, original description, then go right ahead.  NA SC AR Fan 24 (radio me!) 19:59, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I'll give it a go. DB Contribs 20:36, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Stadiums (again)
I have the game (i live in Canada) yet I do not see any portuguese stadiums (Luz, Bessa, Dragao or Alvalade). Are they unlockable or are they only in european versions or what? 24.141.47.50 06:29, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:FIFA 08.jpg
Image:FIFA 08.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot 05:17, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Santiago Bernabeu Stadium
Was it omitted from the game or did somebody not include it on the list? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Silental (talk • contribs) 00:41, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Silental 00:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)


 * It is, I'll admit inexplicably, not included in the game. Grant.alpaugh 06:15, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Are you fu@(&*(! serious?!?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.141.47.50 (talk) 04:05, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

It is not in the game. I'm not sure why it keeps being added to the definition. This is misleading. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 135.245.8.35 (talk) 16:25, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Stadiums
Can someone please explain to me why we can't have the stadiums section set up just like the leagues and other section, ie not a really long list but rather two or three columns that make the article shorter and more compactly present the information. Grant.alpaugh 06:24, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Links
How about adding these two official links?

Can You FIFA 08? - [www.canyoufifa08.com]

FIFPlay - [www.fifplay.com] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.165.7.91 (talk) 18:40, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Estadio de las Artes
This stadium is in the game, yet not listed on the stadiums listing. I cannot find a page for it on wikipedia, the closest is Porto's old stadium "Estadio das Antas." But that was demolished in 2004 and looked very little like the "Estadio de las Artes" in the game. I believe this "Artes" stadium should be in the generic section? 74.142.90.195 13:24, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Reception
Can someone please edit the article to include the current ratings from the usual publications like the Pro Evolution article has? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.100.76.73 (talk) 12:39, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Article cleanup
Due to being reverted, I thought I'd explain my actions here: This article in its previous form was a large collection of lists, which is not how an encyclopedia article should be written, and violates what Wikipedia is not (WP:NOT, WP:NOT). Anything that's worth including in an article is worth actually writing about, and we should have as much real-world context as possible, such as a sections on development, gameplay, and reception, and keep the "in-universe" stuff to a minimum. I am aware that other articles on similar games have such lists too, but they shouldn't. How it was, this article would never have a chance of making it past "start" class, and it should be the aim of every article to progress up the quality scale. So these are the reasons I removed the lists and incorporated some of the info into the prose. Cheers,  Mi re ma re  18:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I personally believe that the soundtrack information belongs in the article for sure. That's more than the game's listing of features.  Soundtracks of movies are included, why should this be different? matt91486 (talk) 06:24, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Film soundtracks tend to be (or should be at least) handled in the way I describe above. Take a look at the soundtrack sections of Blade Runner, Casino Royale (2006 film), or Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back (all Featured Articles), they write about the soundtrack (who wrote it, what formats it was released on and when, what awards it won) rather than list it. All three also have a link to the article on their respective soundrack albums, where tracks can be listed. Some FA movie articles don't have a soundtrack section at all, such as E.T. the Extra-Terrestrial, the soundtrack to which even won an Oscar. Anyway, I don't have an objection to writing about the soundtrack, just to listing it.  Mi re ma re  11:07, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well then, why don't you just go and do the same thing to all other FIFA articles that were kept the same? 200.231.177.3 (talk) 11:50, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * It's not down to any single editor to tidy every article, but hopefully all the FIFA ones will eventually look a bit more like encyclopedia articles.  Mi re ma re  12:44, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand your point about not listing the soundtracks in the article. However, there was a general list of FIFA series soundtracks that was deleted, with the intention of putting those soundtrack lists in individual articles.  So there's nothing to link to.  So now the information has just sort of been deleted from everywhere. matt91486 (talk) 18:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, it was me who AfD'd the soundtrack article, but with the intention of notable tracks being mentioned in the individual articles in prose, rather than simply copy/pasted as a list. Each FIFA game has tracks from a few major artists, but the majority are usually tracks by no-name bands that are included to pad-out the soundtrack on the cheap, and are not particularly worthy of mention. The fact that Blur, one of the biggest bands around at the time, provided the title track to FIFA 98 is worthy of mention, whereas the fact that Jupiter One are on the FIFA 08 soundtrack isn't particularly important and adds little to the reader's understanding of the game. That the track is present in the game would undoubtedly be worthy of mention on Jupiter One's page if it hadn't been deleted, but has little relevance to FIFA 08 itself.  Mi re ma re  23:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * The majority of included bands have their own articles, so to imply that they are all 'no-name' bands is a little unfair. Additionally, speaking of majorities, it also seems like the majority of people using the talk page are in fact in favor of retaining the soundtrack information in the article.  edit: OK, well, majority might be a slightly unfair assessment, with it being 3-1 at this point, but I don't think it's that much of an open and shut case. matt91486 (talk) 18:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * And as for you using Wikipedia:NOT as your rationale, I question that. WP:NOT is not applicable for the soundtrack information at all, and I question the applicability of WP:NOT as well.  The list is not a random, unfocused collection in this context. matt91486 (talk) 18:12, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, if you really think a soundtrack listing adds to the encyclopedic quality of the article go ahead and put it back in. It was primarily the other lists that I strongly objected to, and that the use of WP:NOT was aimed at. Personally, I wouldn't, as the soundtrack has little impact or importance to the game itself (indeed much less than most specifically-composed game soundtracks), and you won't find a Featured Article with such a listing in place of prose, but I won't revert. As for my definition of "no name" bands, I think the inclusion criteria for band articles on Wikipedia is a tour and a proper record release. There are millions of such bands around the world, but very few of them could reasonably be considered "name" in the context of a high-profile worldwide video game, IMO.  Mi re ma re  18:42, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can see how the other lists could be seen to violate the directory policy. The soundtrack is the only one that I really would like to reinsert, given the magnitude of articles about it on game websites, etc.  I'll mess around with the soundtrack stuff some over the next few days and see if there's a workable compromise with the information.  matt91486 (talk) 19:28, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Let's be honest here, the article is simply about a video game. I believe the article should have as much information for the game as possible, including all the info you decided to "clean up." The soundtrack and various other parts of the article were relevant enough and I think the removal of them was honestly more of a power trip move. Does one really need to go into that much thought about what to include in the article of a video game, even when all the items removed were largely related? Kpsoso
 * I'm guessing you haven't been at Wikipedia long, or are not familiar with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines, of which there are many covering articles, article contents, and style. As a start I would suggest reading WP:NOT, and the specific guidelines for video game articles, WP:VG/GL. The point is that this is an encyclopedia and articles must be written as encyclopedia articles, not as guides to the game or exhaustive lists and excessive detail.  Mi re ma re  19:26, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Aw, come on, it's like, the Tony Hawk games' articles always had the soundtrack, character list and level list attached to them and no one ever thought about pulling them from the site. So it is for the previous FIFA games. They've been made with pretty much the same amount of information about leagues, national teams and soundtracks and no one ever whined about it. Now for what reason must the FIFA 08 article be an exception?201.9.140.80 (talk) 00:20, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

FIFA 08 soundtrack
Someone removed the list of the songs on the soundtrack. Why was it removed? I also noticed that other things were removed and the article is relatively smaller than it used to be. Who ever did this needs to put it back to the way it was. The article is meaningless now.
 * Please see the above discussion for the reasons for the changes.  Mi re ma re  23:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry but you've ruined this article by removing things Miremare, I don't know why you chose to remove everything including useful information such as the soundtrack but you've turned this article into a shell rather than a good article that is expected on a game of this stature. Compare this to the size of FIFA 07 and its a very poor article. I'm not saying it was entirely you but whoever edited this has chosen to use the wikipedia guidelines as an excuse to turn this into a poor article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.132.34.166 (talk) 23:10, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * All that has been removed are the lists, the most important info from each of which has been merged into the prose. I'm sorry if you don't like the changes, but please understand that lists like that are simply not the way to write an encyclopedia article. If anyone wants to find out what teams or stadiums are featured in any more detail they can follow one the relevant external links. As for the the soundtrack, matt91486 is currently working on section for it.  Mi re ma re  23:35, 17 December 2007 (UTC)
 * What external links? And there already was a fine soundtrack section until that too was deleted. If you don't like the idea of lists being used solely in an article then wouldn't re-writing the section be a better idea rather than deleting all of the information? 81.132.34.166 (talk) 01:00, 18 December 2007 (UTC)
 * As I said, the most important bits were merged into the prose. It's the purpose of any article on Wikipedia to provide an encyclopedic overview, not list every detail. Feel free to add external links if the current ones don't suffice.  Mi re ma re  02:22, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

"Sorry but you've ruined this article by removing things Miremare, I don't know why you chose to remove everything including useful information....you've turned this article into a shell rather than a good article that is expected on a game of this stature"

I AGREE 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.118.237.25 (talk) 00:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

The fact is the article as it was did what it's job is to do. And that's to inform the reader about the subject of the article. The reason wikipedia exists is to prevent countless hours of searching about one said topic. Sometimes following the "guidelines" is not always that productive and when other similar articles are left in their current state then it's almost like an implied prescedent. The fact is the job that was done was not even done correctly by the editors own standards. If you are going to "do the article right" then "do the article right". As you said information like stadiums and music should summarized but have links provided in which the used can go to, to access the complete stadium and soundtrack lists. This wasn't done as it was not done on other various issues within the article. The editing job was done hastily and with little foresight  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.45.117.138 (talk) 01:44, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Manager Mode
I just purchased FIFA 08 for Wii and think the world should know that Manager Mode is not included on this version of the game. Instead, Wii users get "Footii Party," which features three mini-games especially for Wii: Juggling, Boot It, and Table Football, which are described in detail here. Thanks! 64.142.91.171 (talk) 00:12, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Australasia
this is not an actual place, fix it morons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.158.167 (talk) 17:41, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
 * First off, calling us "morons" is no way to get things done and actually violates the no personal attacks policy. Secondly, Australasia isn't a place but a term used to collectively describe Australia, New Zealand, and the islands surrounding it. See Australasia for more info.  N F 24 (welcome, 2008!) 01:04, 29 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand where you two are comming from, but the more widely used term to describe those areas is "Oceania" so would it not be better to use that term rather than "Australasia"?BrendanKBOT (talk) 00:42, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

League of Ireland correction
The game includes the 12 teams from the FAI Premier Division 2007 season only, not every single team that competes in the FAI League of Ireland. Otherwise the teams relegated in recent years such as Shelbourne, etc. would be included alongside the other FAI First Division teams whilst the likes of Waterford United F.C. and Longford Town, relegated at the end of the 2007 season but included in the Premier Division of the game, would be included in that division also. And what of Cobh Ramblers and Finn Harps, who were promoted to the Premier Division for 2008? The article should specify all of this in more detail. Yet it doesn't. --86.45.223.4 (talk) 21:39, 26 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Corrected FAI League of Ireland to FAI Premier Division.  Mi re ma re  01:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Request for comment: Lists of stadia, teams, and music
Are lists of stadia, teams, and music in the game necessary?

Not sure about the music, but I think having a list of the stadia (as not all are included) and teams (for the same reason) is helpful and adds to the page. Acronjsmith (talk) 15:58, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Not having read the article, keep in mind that WP:NOTE and WP:WEIGHT apply. If these lists are notable, then they should probably be included, but also note that long lists don't usually belong in articles. See WP:EMBED for more on that. I hope that helps a bit. DJLayton4 (talk) 03:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

A couple things: While including in game information is necessary for video game articles, such information should be limited to informative, yet concise, descriptions of gameplay, story, characters, and/or the setting. A brief paragraph mentioning some notable teams, venues and similar content is all that is required to convey the information to the average reader. Track listings are sometimes include, though normally in a collapsible table. I think you will most other game articles that have similar types of lists, are not rated GA or FA. The reason behind that is because though such lists can provide some information to players of the game, they do not technically qualify as encyclopedic content. (Guyinblack25 talk 21:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC))
 * Per WP:GAMEGUIDE - "While Wikipedia has descriptions of people, places, and things, a Wikipedia article should not read like a how-to style manual of instructions, advice (legal, medical, or otherwise) or suggestions, or contain "how-to"s. This includes tutorials, walk-throughs, instruction manuals, game guides, and recipes."
 * Per WP:NOT - "Wikipedia is not a directory of everything that exists or has existed."
 * I don't believe any Video game FAs include such lists. Maybe a couple have soundtrack listings.

WP:EMBED suggests that a link to a stand-alone list might be better, so that each reader can choose to see or omit venues, music, etc. That makes WP:NOTE relevant - is the list (as opposed to the game) notable enough to merit an article? With respect, I can't see how WP:WEIGHT applies here. (The fact that FIFA 08 includes Anfield is NPOV; we're only debating its importance.) One small point: is Benelux an important concept within the game (I don't own it) or should we be consistent and list those two stadia by country? Certes (talk) 12:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

Wii Version Differences
Should we include a section about the Wii version not including Manager Mode, Be a Pro Mode, or 5 vs. 5 online play?Greecepwns (#1 Red Bulls Supporter) (talk) 01:31, 30 January 2008 (UTC)