Talk:FIFA Men's World Ranking/Archive 1

Points
Why is it that the points calculated from individual matches don't add up to the points in the top 25 rankings? According to fifa.com, Germany gained 1432.5 and 1042.5 points from their last two competitive international matches, but their total points is only 1413. Is there something I've missed here? - 131.251.141.124 (talk) 13:16, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The match points are added then divided by the total number of matches. See for example the detailed points totals for Israel's November 2008 FIFA ranking.--Edgar (talk) 07:31, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

All-time highest ratings
The following is a list of national football teams ranked by their highest FIFA score ever reached.

Why did you delete my table, PeeJay2k3? Why do you think is "unnecessary"? Just because England is 8th??? With your point of view almost everything is "unnecessary". Please, respect the work of the others, you are not the Wikipedia's owner.

Position of the US national team
I think people need to realize what the rankings aren't as much as what they are. They're not power rankings (1 would beat 2 would beat 3 would beat 4), and they're not polls (win and move up until you hit a logjam, lose and you fall). They simply attempt to measure each team's results over the last eight years, and, by that standard, it's tough to argue that the US hasn't had one of the world's best eight-year runs. There's also been a lot of hand-wringing lately over the US's rise to fourth, even though their last two friendlies were a home draw with Jamaica and an away loss to Germany. Well, what nobody's pointing out (except FIFA in the news post that accompanied the new rankings, incidentally) is that the reason the US moved up a slot is that Argentina suffered much more than other countries in the rankings with the recent devaluation of old results. The US didn't move up as much as Argentina fell [Odds (William Hill) for World Cup 2006, 14 June: Argentina 13-2, USA 400-1]. Plus, the US has several positive results buffering against the last two matches, to boot, since the US has played more matches than most international squads this year.

And no, Coke's sponsorship has nothing to do with it. It's a mathematical formula and it's completely known.

[Comment: how did Coke & Fifa arrive at the algorithm, though? To a casual observer it seems specifically designed to inflate US performance, carefully manipulating the weakness and imbalance in CONCACAF].

On the other hand, the criticism below about the CONCACAF Gold Cup has merit, since, yes, the U.S. plays several matches against weaker opposition, though CONCACAF does usually invite a couple of guest nations to compete (South Africa and Colombia in 2005, Colombia and Brazil(!) in 2003). Also noteworthy is that Brazil sent their under-23 team in 2003 and still almost won the tournament, only going out to Mexico in the final in Mexico City.

So what's my point? The rankings actually do a good job of what they're designed for, which is to rate past performance, not predict future success. As far as the U.S. is concerned, the team's going to suffer from being a big fish in a small pond for a while, with only Mexico as a serious rival (though Costa Rica is just a little below them), and with such a split between U.S.-based players and European-based players, it's tough to get a completely full-strength squad most of the time. There are occasional grumblings about the U.S. and Mexico bolting for CONMEBOL, but it won't happen because it's a long way from North America to South America, and neither the U.S. nor Mexico wants to give up a likely WC spot every four years.

Oh, and some people complain that the rankings count friendlies. Well, 1) the more games used in the rankings calculations, the better, and 2) you play to win the game. Tickenest 15:39, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[First post in this discussion, 8-05: The most striking thing (to me) in the 'Fifa world ranking' is the way it ridiculously inflates US football performance: the highest ever US position in the ELO ranking is 11th, but according to FIFA, the US in August 2005 was the 6th best team in the world - outplaying France, Italy, Spain, Germany, England &c &c.

Could this be in any way related to the fact that the FIFA rankings are sponsored by Coca Cola? Remember 'cocacolonization'?]

[February 2006: USA joint 6th in 'world rankings'. Odds (Ladbrokes) on USA to win World Cup 80-1 (joint 17th).]


 * Ah yes, just wait until the World cup comes.. [Team America finally score a goal as they lose to Ghana (Fifa ranking 48) and exit]

[Guardian, 12 June 06 - Czech Republic 3 / USA 0: 'This wasn't quite the clash of the titans the Fifa rankings suggested was in store. If the Czech Republic proved worthy claimants to the title of Second Best Team In The World with confidence, poise and excellent finishing, the USA showed how laughable their fifth billing is with a stunning lack of ingenuity']

[BBC - Gary Lineker (Argentina 6 / S&M 0): 'According to FIFA, Argentina is the ninth best team in the tournament, after the likes of Mexico and the USA. FIFA need to watch more football.']


 * The reason the USA is ranked ridiculously high is partly because of the pathetic opposition that they face, they spend most of their time playing CONCACAF nations, which bar mexico, are somewhat weak, though the point deduction for this is minimal and the points for winning the CONCACAF gold cup, whuch lets be straight, to win all you have to do is beat mexico and the US and no one else is going to stop you, the points for winning the gold cup are the same as winning the UEFA cup or Copa America. Philc  T+C 10:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)


 * The algorithm FIFA use is totally to cock. The European Championships are in another league compared to the CONCACAF in terms of quality, yet FIFA ranks these two tournaments equally on scale. The US team should be placed round about 17th (just below Sweden), and Mexico round about 13th. No way should Italy be 9 places below Mexico. This article should have a Criticism section, because a lot of the media can see the unashamed bias of FIFA towards the big bucks of America. -- Boothman   /tɔːk/ . 21:27, 27 May 2006 (UTC)


 * The two tournaments are not ranked equally, though the difference is so pathetic, that I agree, the fifa world rankings are poor way of viewing teams relative strengths, for an accurate view see the Elo football rating. Philc  TECI 19:19, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

The following block from the first paragraph of the Criticism section is highly POV, using weasel words without sufficient references, and it's poorly written to boot. I'm going to see about looking up some proper references regarding the disparity between the US's rankings and skill, and then do a proper rewrite unless there are any objections. ReMarkAble 00:32, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "For example Norway were at one time ranked 2nd,[6] and the United States reached 4th, to the surprise of even their own players. The United States do not deserve to be ranked fourth in the world. USA played most of the weaker teams from around the world, which were very easy to win. These games then led to their fourth ranking amongst some of the more elite teams around the world. The Czech republic, England, Brazil, germany, france, Spain, Argentina, Holland, are all much better than the United States.."


 * It was vandalism, and has since been removed. Philc  TECI 11:22, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

^^ hahaha, that is soo funny.. BUT REALLY, for a country with a population of over 300 million, the results are kind of sad.. and a country like the czech republic with a population of 10 million is better.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.12.155.116 (talk) 03:30, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

T19?
What should T19 mean, please? If it means "tied 19", then why not use it for "T12"? And anyway, what advantage does "T19, T19" have? (Instead of just showing that visually and not requiring the reader to understand that notation?) --Mormegil 13:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

Top 20 Rankings for Men Only?
Does anyone have a suggestion for making this article more inclusive? The POV focuses on men's rankings. For instance, the "Top 20 ranking as of" section lists only men's rankings, though it's not titled "Men's Rankings." And the "Overview" states that women's rankings are "not included" in the calculation of FIFA ranking. While it's true that the FIFA Men's ranking system doesn't include other FIFA organizations (like FIFA Women's or futsal), it's not true that only one set of FIFA rankings exists. There are rankings for FIFA Women's and Fair Play rankings for youth. Deebki 08:25, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
 * see FIFA Women's World Rankings. Philc  T+C 09:40, 7 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Hi Philc. The fact that FIFA Women's World Rankings article exists doesn't resolve the POV in this article.  This article needs to either a) cover all FIFA rankings or b) be renamed "FIFA Men's World Rankings."   Deebki 20:23, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Deebki is in fact right. Seems like it's some form of accidental gender bias. Sijo Ripa 20:58, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Not really in non-US sports it is automatically assumed to be male sport, it is not the FIFA mens World Cup, or the UEFA mens Champions League or the FA cup for men, or the mens Barclaycard Premiership, so why should this be any different. And on the website they are solely reffered to as "FIFA/Coca-Cola World Ranking" no mention of gender, while the womens one is called FIFA Women's World Ranking, so really it is just accuracy, not gender bias that results in the name of this article.  Philc  TECI 21:17, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Philc on this one. You people are dragging something out of teh boundery. And Men's FIFA existed way before women's. So Women's would be a little shorter but no gender bias going on.

Copyvio? (resolved)
I'm not usually the copyright police (I don't even know how to mark suspected copyvios), but it sure looks to me like large portions of this page were copied and pasted directly from the FIFA site. Thoughts?--Inonit 03:26, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No, its a copy edit, if you read it you'll notice that although the format is similar and the paragraphs and bullet points are all about the same size, they actually say different things to what the website says, though explaining the same things. Philc  TECI 22:14, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Isn't it ?? Philc  TECI 22:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Ermm so you're saying you copied the page and shifted some of the words about. Well looking at a single paragraph at random - what we have is this :


 * FIFA :
 * Since its introduction, the FIFA /Coca-Cola Ranking has proved to be a reliable measure for comparing national A-teams. Over the years, some of the details of the ranking process have proved to be in need of improvement, and appropriate revised versions were put into effect at the beginning of 1999.
 * Wikipedia article :
 * Since its introduction, the FIFA world ranking has been used as a measure for comparing national senior teams. Since its introduction some of the details of the ranking process have proved to be in need of improvement, and a revised version was put into effect at the beginning of 1999. However, this system is still considered inferior to the Elo Ratings.''


 * I'm sorry but that's plagiarism, as clear as day. Jooler 03:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[Actually, it reads more like a careful rewrite ('copy-edit') than plagiarism. One could even imagine some embarrassed FIFA footsoldier trying to distance himself from Coca-Cola (on Wikipedia), while arguing in this discussion section that the ever-more apparent problems are not really significant. And I guess FIFA has finally realized that unless they change their system, the improving USA team will soon be the best in the world (well, second to Brazil, anyway, despite losing at home to Morocco &c &c)]

Just for the record, now the text in question has been removed, rewritten and readded to the article, with just as little reference to coca cola, i mean.. urr.. what? no! shhhh... shifty eyes... Philc TECI 00:48, 30 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Jooler's comment is without doubt correct. Copy-editing something then claiming it is a distinct work is pretty much as close to plagiarism as you can get! TheGrappler 19:12, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

[...And it's not as if the 'copy-edit' was neutral... my point about removing references to Coca-Cola, and nodding to the laughable pro-US bias in the ranking algorithm, was that it read like a 'defensive' copy-edit...]

Well, it can't be that hard to fix. Just glom the facts out of it and re-write it. That's an awful big ugly thing of a copyright violation BTW. Scary looking thing ... Wiggy! 01:46, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[It's only a copyright violation if our 'copy-editor' has no connection with Fifa or Coca Cola] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.132.231.94 (talk • contribs) 02:32, 23 June 2006.

Where are the rankings?
I recognise that theyy were a strong bait to page vandals (I have done some reversions of such), but to have an article on a rankings list that doesn't include current rankings seems perverse. Kevin McE 12:06, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The current rankings are there - to the right of the TOC. Poulsen 12:11, 10 June 2006 (UTC)


 * D'oh Kevin McE 12:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

Not Neutral
The article is not neutral, as the editor of the article talked a lot against Brazil. I don't know what I could do, so just leaving comments here. Hopefully someone will look into that. Priyanshu 18:21, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Looks like someone already edited it :) Priyanshu 18:23, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

This list is crap
Just my opinion. Germany which won 3 World cups is in the 19th place and USA is 5th. Sorry it does not pass the laugh test.--Omnicog 18:48, 19 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Ranking take into account the last 8 years. Neither won any world cups in the last 8 years. Philc  TECI 17:39, 20 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Uruguay won two world cups, but last year could not even get past Australia to qualify for the World Cup. Omnicog, your point doesn't bear close analysis. Ordinary Person 12:14, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Constant Vandalism
This article is subject to constant vandalism, including rearranging of the rank, per users wishes, re-assignment of points, constant introduction of POV and sometimes offensive statements, and increasingly often, blanking entire sections, which appears to go un-noticed for several days each time.

Can we get one of those padlock thingys to prevent non-registered users from wrecking this page. Philc TECI 17:56, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
 * You're thinking about semi-protection, where the page cannot be edited by anonymous or relatively new users. See Requests for page protection. Kevin_b_er 15:32, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Best Seven matches
Although the practice of taking only the "best seven" matches of the year was intended to prevent teams that play more rarely from being disadvantaged, it should be clear that teams that play more often will still be favoured by this system. Consider two teams, of equal ability and strength of opposition, Team A plays 20 matches a year, Team B plays 8 matches a year. From basic stats, you would expect the average of the best seven of Team A's matches to be better than the best 7 of Team B's matches. Ordinary Person 12:19, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Tell it to FIFA. Philc  TECI 00:48, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

split old calculation systems onto separate pages?
This page is getting too long. I don't think we need the details of the old (pre July 2006) system on this page. I propose we split that section into its own page.

If I don't hear a good reason otherwise soon, I'll do it when I can.

Wantok 03:25, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Not yet. While the old system probably has undue weight right now, I can see a few ways to make it shorter without losing much depth, particularly as some parts more or less repeat the description of the new system. If it still looks over-long after a thorough copyedit, then split, but splitting now would result in two verbose pages which repeat each other. Oldelpaso 07:24, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * As an example, I've changed the regional strengths section for the old rankings. If something similar is done throughout I don't think a split will be necessary. The most pressing task is to ensure old rankings are referred to in the past tense. Oldelpaso 07:36, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed that the length of the old-system section can be reduced, but is there any point? The old system now is pretty academic - only of interest to those comparing calculation systems.  Given the space it occupies on the page now, even reduced down it would be disproportionately large.  And I think that a detailed description of the old system just adds to the general impression of complexity and makes the article less readable. Having it on a separate page allows us to retain the detail, for those really interested, without bogging down the main page. Wantok 10:08, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I agree on the idea of splitting. If the old ranking system were to be covered in detail, the only way it would make sense would be to go point-by-point comparing it to the new one, and then we could revisit removing that comparison in a year or two.  I understand the desire not to destroy the work that's there, but we should put it on a separate page.--Inonit 16:10, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've created a new page for the 1999-2006 system here: FIFA men's ranking system 1999-2006. I've also gone through and changed to the past tense where appropriate. I propose we replace the current 1999-2006 section with a short summary and link. Wantok 13:58, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I've made that change now - the 1999-2006 method is now split off onto the new page FIFA men's ranking system 1999-2006 and that section of this FIFA World Rankings page has been replaced with a short summary paragraph and link. Wantok 07:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

PhilC, why reintroduce that section on match importance (in the 99-06 section of this page)? It seems strange to have detail on that one factor only, of the seven factors used. I realise it was in the overview but it really didn't belong there before, either. I'll remove it now. I like what you've added to the initial para (from the overview) - makes sense. Wantok 13:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It was the overview section from the 99-06 page which gives a low detail overview of the procedure, I thought it was serve nicely as the summary of the page recquired for that section of this page. Philc  TECI 14:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

men only?
I don't think it's reasonable for this page to only talk about the men's ranking (current intro in fact defines "FIFA World Rankings" as the system used in men's football).

We should have a section for men's, and a section for the system used for women's ranking. Perhaps a separate page for the description of the women's calculation system - which is based on the ELO technique. I believe the youth rankings use the same system as the men's, but I could be wrong there.

Wantok 03:28, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Have you seen this? FIFA Women's World Rankings --Curlingstub.png Earl Andrew - talk 04:12, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Thanks - and indeed the link to the women's page is in the See Also section. I suppose my concern is mainly with the article title.  This article is about men's rankings only, so perhaps it should be renamed "FIFA Men's World Rankings" - with a redirect from "FIFA World Rankings" to it, of course. Wantok 04:47, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The term "FIFA World Rankings" is used far more commonly to refer to the men's rankings than the women's rankings. A Google search for "FIFA world rankings -wikipedia" does not have a result referring to the womens rankings until the fifth page, so I don't think disambiguation is needed. Perhaps a notice at the top saying :This article is about the men's rankings. For women's rankings, see FIFA Women's World Rankings. would be a better solution. Oldelpaso 07:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed that would be a good idea. I think a change of article name is justified, too - for the sake of accuracy.  The article is about men's rankings, specifically.  "FIFA World Rankings" should certainly redirect here, though, for the reasons you've outlined. Wantok 07:20, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think that would be overdoing precision. To me, this situation is analogous to Liverpool F.C., which is about the English club even though there is a Uruguayan club of the same name (whose article is at Liverpool FC (Montevideo)), because the vast majority of searches will expect to find the English club. Probably more pertinently, FIFA World Cup is about the men's tournament with no redirect, and FIFA itself appears to use "FIFA World Rankings" and "FIFA Women's World Rankings" Oldelpaso 07:55, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, fair enough. I've added a link at top of page to the women's ranking page. Wantok 10:04, 21 July 2006 (UTC)


 * No, according to the FIFA website the official name of these is the FIFA Coca Cola World Rankings, and the womens ones are the FIFA womens world rankings, please see the duscussion above. Any gender bias here is on the part of FIFA, not wikipedia, and wikipedia as it should, has accurately recorded the information as the case is. Philc TECI 19:38, 21 July 2006 (UTC) IT'S OBVIOUS WHY IT'S MEN ONLY!! THAT"S WHAT IT SAYS! GO DO WHAT EARL ANDREW SAID IF YOU WONDER WHY!!

Footnote
Question - should a footnote be included, if one has to register with the site in order to read the full article. I refer what is currently number 7, linking to an article where the Americans can't believe they're ranked 4th. Surely if there is no article without registration, there should be no link? --Andymarczak 13:35, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, the article used to freeview, I added it (I think), and I certainly haven't registered. Ohwell, I don't know what the appropriate thing to do is. Philc  TECI 14:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)


 * As it's from Associated Press, the story should be somewhere else that doesn't need registration. The Wikipedia policy has some suggestions for finding other online copies. Wantok 01:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Help please
I have started a fairly major task: to include the highest and lowest in these rankings into the infobox for every national side. This was inspired by a rainy day and a request on Talk:Republic of Ireland national football team. I duly made the changes to Template:Infobox National football team and have so far only altered Republic of Ireland national football team and the 10 members of CONMEBOL. The task basically consists of soucing the info at http://www.fifa.com/en/mens/statistics/rank/compare.html?static=5 and pasting the following code in each teams article, somewhere within the infobox brackets, with the relevant dates and rankings replacing these data(which are for Rep of Ireland). Perhaps anyone taking on part of this task could "baggsy" a set of nations here, to prevent duplication of effort. Kevin McE 00:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

1st ranking date = August 1993 | FIFA max = 5 | FIFA max date = August 1993 | FIFA min = 57 | FIFA min date = November 1998 |
 * Oceanea done as well, but the remaining confederations are biggies... Kevin McE 11:30, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I've done the UK nations Fedgin 11:33, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well I've done the rest of UEFA (apart from Ukraine, which is under edit protection)...Kevin McE 01:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Note that there is a discussion ongoing in Template talk:Infobox National football team if these informations should be kept or removed.--Kwame Nkrumah 19:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Result of discussion was keep Kevin McE 08:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Sept 06 update
I have done the FIFA rankings update for Sept 2006 for all federations apart from Africa and Oceania, but I will not be able to get at Wi9ki for about a week: anyone game to have a go at them rather than leave it out of date. If anyone is feeling really co-operative, or bored, the FIFA max/mins as in the heading above still need doing for CAF Kevin McE 08:53, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

The table needs to be updated for November 2006, but I don't think I know much enough about wiki formatting, so perhaps someone could do something?--81.236.17.8 18:54, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
 * erm: I updated it on the day the new rankings came out. Not sure what this user is expecting to see. Kevin McE 20:14, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

Explain Please
Can someone please explain the following The equation to give ranking points is given as

Ranking points = (Result points) x (Match status multiplier) x (Opposition strength multiplier) x (Regional strength multiplier) x (Date multiplier) x 100

Based on this, any team beating another team in the top 10 during the world cup finals would gain approx 3x3x1.90x1x1x100=1710 points

This is more than the total number of points that Brazil at the top of the table have.

Am I missing something? Should the the x100 multiplier be removed. Are the points on the table an average? Graemec2 09:18, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

IT SHOULD BE 10, NOT 100


 * I'm guessing from the figures that they're an average; but it needs explaining. --Robdurbar 20:41, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
 * As the examples make clear, a team can get a maximum of 2400 points from a single game (Andorra beating Germany in the World Cup final?) so I assume the ranking is your average point score of all your matches. The maximum possible score would then be (somewhat less than*) 2400, which I guess fits with the 1500-1600 that the current top nation has. 213.112.249.100 11:02, 23 November 2006 (UTC)


 * ) unless all your five minimum matches in a single period are world cup finals against the highest ranking team... ;-)

Despite their claim of "transparency", the FIFA site is not very clear about how exactly the rankings are calculated using the specified criteria. As near as I can tell, each side receives points for each match based on the formula: Ranking points = (Result points) * (Match status multiplier) * (Opposition strength multiplier) * (Regional strength multiplier) * 100

These points are averaged for matches four over twelve month periods (0-12 months, 13-24, 25-36, 37-48), with 5 being the minimum divisor. If you play less than 5 matches in any of the 12 month groupings, your total points are still divided by 5. Then, they multiply the most recent 12 month average by 1, the previous 12 months by 0.5, the previous 12 months by 0.3, and the oldest 12 month average by 0.2. Finally, they add these four products to achieve the total points, which is the published point total.

It would be really helpful if the FIFA procedure page went into a bit more depth. They go into great detail in how to calculate points for individual games, but say little to nothing about how those points are averaged and how the date multiplier figures into it. 72.11.3.172 (talk) 05:45, 19 June 2008 (UTC)


 * I think it's pretty clear. But if you need more details, see this pdf file detailing the point totals for the top 20 teams in the October 2007 ranking. --Edgar (talk) 06:08, 19 June 2008 (UTC)

Comparison with ELO Rankings
'Significant changes were implemented in 1999 and again in 2006, in order to allow FIFA's system to compete with the Elo ratings, which were considered a more accurate, credible guide to the teams' rankings.'

This appears to be a highly biased statement. I mean the FIFA rankings obviously have their problems - I'm not a massive fan - but I've never heard anyone say that the ELO ratings are considered any better (in fact, one hears very little of them). If this could be changed to a sourced comment stating that 'some commentators' consider the ELO rankings better, then fine; but for now its got to go. --Robdurbar 14:26, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Criticism...
I don't understand why it is so surprising that Norway was on the 2nd place in October 1993. They did beat Turkey 3-1, Poland 3-0, England 2-0, and played a raw against Holland. Right now they are at 51st, that I understand...
 * and results like that are why they were so ranked. But very few football fans if asked in 1993 to name the best two sides in the world would have placed Norway among them: that is why an editor found it surprising.  But who is to say that the statistics are wrong and common perception is right...Kevin McE 23:12, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

I like how Argentina are second place after getting their asses whipped 3-0 by Brazil...If France beats Brazil, why are they 4th, and if Argentina loses to Brazil by such a large margin, how are they even in the top 5?! Plus, England deserves to have a low spot and Italy does too... 2-1 Faroe Islands?! COME ON! World Champions my ass. Brazil, France, Germany, Portugal, and Spain are the best.

dude, i'm sorry, but argentina is the best team in the world according to the rank. and it was very funny to say that spain or portugal are good teams.. (what did they win and when anyway?, eternal and everlasting losers.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.32.56.2 (talk) 20:40, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

"A" Match
Could anyone explain me about the All international "A" matches? I quite don't understand what the meaning of this. I found it in the first criteria in the FIFA Web. Thank you --Manop - TH 23:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
 * "A" in the sense that it is in contrast to a "B" international, or an under-age selection, an A match is more commonly referred to (in the UK at least) as a full international: it is the designation given by FIFA to games in which the nation's strongest team could be selected, although in practice it often is not. FIFA lists all A internationals (its designation" since 1980: prior to that, whether games were full internationals is not always clear, and is in effect a matter of the intention of the FAs involved.Kevin McE 00:42, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

What is Guinea doing on there?
Guinea has never qualified for a World Cup or done anything else.They've never won an African Nations Cup well Poland's won the Olympics.And they're ranked higher than Poland.What a joke. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.68.34.126 (talk) 23:28, 18 December 2006 (UTC).
 * What is Guinea doing on there? Reflecting their position as calculated and reported by FIFA: there would be no justification for the Wikipedia article doing otherwise. There is no real surprise that they hold this position: they were higher a few months ago.  Citing a 1972 Olympic vitory by another team shows that you have not read the article closely enough to realise that the rankings are based on the last 4 years, and that Poland's rank is entirely unaffected by that win.  You might find it surprizing that Guinea is so highly rated, but unless you can scrutinise their results for the last 4 years and demonstrate that FIFA have miscalculated, then their ranking is no more than a reflection that reputation and performance are not always closely correlated, which is, IMHO, what makes such rankings interesting. Kevin McE 23:48, 18 December 2006 (UTC)

But,the thing is,that Poland actually has done better in the past 4 years than Guinea.They did qualify for all the world cups in the past 4 years and Guinea's Africa Nations Cup Runner-Up place was in 1976 (the only thing they've ever done) which was not in the past 4 years.So,Poland should probably be ranked ahead.
 * Your perception is that Poland have done better in the last 4 years, but the FIFA World Rankings are based on a formula that considers match results and the statistical strength of the opposition, with weighting adjustments, not subjective perceptions. There has only been one World Cup in the last 4 years, and the fact of qualifying does not earn rankings points: read the article to see how points are gained; as I said above, if you can demonstrate that FIFA have miscalculated, I'm sure they would be delighted to know.  But this page is for discussing the article, not the merits or faults of FIFA's formula for calculation, and all the article can do, if it is to avoid OR, is to report the rankings as published by the relevant authority. Kevin McE 15:39, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

I am almost sure that Rank 23 for Guinea is a mistake made by FIFA. Most probably some of the good results made by Ghana were attributed also to Guinea since the introduction of the new calculation after last world cup. Ghana and Guinea sound almost equal in several languages (like German and English), so they might have been confounded. I even e-mailed my suspicion to FIFA, but there was no reaction at all. But concerning Guinea I have another question concerning the calculation: Normally a team can only win points by playing matches and can only loose points by devaluation of matches already over a year old. But Guinea won 37 Points (from 819 in November up to 856 Points in December), although they played their last match in October 07. And Ghana too have not played since the deadline (November 16.) for November ranking. Or have I missed a rule in the calculation? How can Guinea win points without playing?!

My guess: In this case the matches of Guyana (also similar to Guinea) have been attributed also to Guinea. Guyana wins 35 points and Guinea wins 37 points. Guyana won against Antigua and Barbuda (November 24.), Guadeloupe (November 26.) and Dominican Republic (November 28.). But Guinea itself has not played since October 07. --Rheinländer 13:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC) How many matches has Guinea played and won? Somebody who knows should tell us!Actually,never mind.I just found out that Guinea's match on October 7 was a 1-0 loss to Cape Verde. I also discovered that Guinea's record in the past 4 years (From December 21,2002) was 13 wins;9 draws and 8 losses. I don't think they should be on there.

It could be to do with matches only counting for the last 4 years. If they had some particularly poor results around 4 years ago then the negative scores from these matches are no longer taken into the calculation of ranking points when it updates. Hence they gain points without playing. Something similar happened to Scotland a few months back, they went up to 16th wothout playing any matches coz 4 years ago they drew with the Faroes...

Make no mistake abt it, Guinea is infact 30th in the FIFA world rankings. Thats the debate abt it how a team whos never been in the World Cup and its highest ever finish in the African Nations Cup was second in 1976 can be coming 30th ahead of teams like Australia, Japan, Chile etc...I dont like the system and theres a heap of people that wud agree with me. Another example, how can USA be infront of teams like Uruguay, Sweden, Turkey, Serbia, Nigeria...its simply because they played in the gold Cup or woteva its called where they beat all these mino teams e.g. Guadaloupe who team is made up of players born in places like France, but all the points count and for me there still needs to b adjustments to the system, nevertheless, the Guinea thing isnt a mistake...And btw Poland are top of their Euro 2008 qualifying group infront of Finland Portugal and Serbia atm i.e. as at 12/11/07 does that not count for anything...these rankings are probly not an accurate judgement of each team but u gotta realise that such things are hard to measure i just dont take notice of the rankings...One more example, european teams r at a disadvantage becoz of the fact that europe is highly contested, a team such as Poland wud often have to play a team such as France or Italy whereas an african team wud often play mino nations and although they get less points for winning the european nations are being punished for not beating the worlds best..........In CONCLUSION this ARTICLE is accurate... Sydneyman_Kris 10:24, 14 October 2007 (UTC)


 * I've said it before, and I'll say it again: any team that is listed here appears because it is in the top 30 on the FIFA rankings. This is a discussion page for the article, not for the accuracy or justice of the formula by which FIFA calculate the rankings which are reported in this article.  If you think there is a fault in that process, contact FIFA about it: it is not the purpose of this discussion page.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevin McE (talk • contribs) 20:17, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia
Wikipedia is not a ääähm Nachrichten page! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.59.72.31 (talk) 17:38, 19 February 2007 (UTC).

Friendly matches...
Are friendly matches included in this system? I didn't find any info regarding that in the article.

For example theres a match in August between Norway and Argentina. If Norway win will it count? Will it give extra points because of the distance between Norway and Argentina?


 * See the article: yes, friendlies are included in the calculation, but they are given a lower weighting than competition games: no, there is no weighting given in respect of distance traveled for matches. Kevin McE 13:35, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Australia #1?
Somethings wrong here,i see the rankings and all of the countries are Australia.Did someone mess with the rankings?--Cokepepsi 03:46, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

FIFA Rankings fixed
Well im glad that the rankings are fixed.Some smart guy made all the 30 teams in the rankings Australia and saying australia got a 50-0 win over england!Im glad the rankings are fixed,but want to know who mest up the rankings?It seemed like the rankings almost got completly destroyed.
 * This happens a lot, because this article is a high-risk target for vandals. The good thing is all those changes can easily be reverted, so no need to give it a special emphasis. Artyom (talk • contribs) 07:31, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Only top 30
Why is it that only the top 30 teams are shown in the table? Why not have the table include the top 40 or even top 50? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Richard LVP Real (talk • contribs) 19:29, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

thats what i said —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.12.155.116 (talk) 03:37, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, 30 sounds like a random number to me. I say 25 or 50. Greecepwns 22:17, 26 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greecepwns (talk • contribs)
 * There's a note in the hidden comment that precedes the ranking table in the source code: Please do not extend this beyond thirty countries. Doing so causes legal issues (copyright of the list is owned by FIFA) and also affects the aesthetics of the page. I didn't find any information about the list being copyrighted, but, in any case, expanding the table will cause the article to look ugly. Artyom (talk • contribs) 22:26, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Is it acceptable to use the FIFA rankings for each region on the region pages, such as the top "X" number of teams in UEFA, CONCACAF, etc.? Would it be acceptable to only show the current rankings for whatever nations are currently in the FIFA Top 25? I don't want to make a box only to have it deleted for copyvios. JohnnyPolo24 (talk) 12:41, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I have little doubt that FIFA will not enforce any alleged copyright regarding the full ranking list. Newspapers throughout the world have been publishing the full ranking list and I am not aware of any action from FIFA to enforce such suggested copyright. However, to avoid a long debate on whether such copyright exists or not, I have inserted a link to the full rankings. I hope this will not be removed by an administrator. Zingi (talk) 19:26, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Link already existed at the top of the table: duplication removed. Kevin McE (talk) 10:17, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

Clean up needed
I believe a cleanup is needed. Im quite sure the poor teams at the top of the table (Pak and Bang) are no where near the top countries. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.64.214 (talk) 10:58, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

I put spain and italy as the top 2 nations, but im not sure of the points and more finite details, someone else might want to check my edits. I just wanted Pakistan and Bangladesh off the leaderboard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.210.64.214 (talk) 11:01, 5 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I just want your racist language off this site. Kevin McE (talk) 18:01, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

yeah that just ridiculous, their is just point in dictating the FIFA world rankings to your own liking. this is true even without your racist remarks about your old British Raj. but deciding on which team needs to 1,2 or 3 to your own liking is even more stupid.NH-obi (talk) 16:07, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

A Question
I don't know much about football, buth Argentina keep on winning the Gold Medal at the Olympics. How come they are rated so lowly and rated higher in Rugby? I reckon that Argentina, Italy and Brazil are all better than Spain. This rating system is flawed to my mind. Wallie (talk) 14:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The Olympics are considered an amateur tournament and do not affect the FIFA Rankings. --Edgar (talk) 07:32, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

Criticism
"Another criticism is that a countries points are the average of all matches played over the past four years (with decreasing contribution), resulting in situations where winning a game reduces a countries ranking. For example if England wins against Spain (ranked 1st), in a friendly they will gain (3 x 1 x 2 x 1 x 100) = 600 points for the match. If the average of their previous matches is 1173 before playing Spain (i.e. England has 1173 pts in the FIFA world ranking system), after playing Spain there will be an additional game with 600 pts contributing to the average, resulting in a new average of less than 1173."

1. I've seen this kind of criticism only on message boards. Please provide a source for this.

2. The explanation is flawed, because the 600 points only affect the average of the last 12 months and I can come up with an example where the average of a team with 1173 points will actually rise after winning a friendly.

Please consider rephrasing or something.--Edgar (talk) 10:07, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Papua New Guinea
What's the reason for lowest position of Papua ? I understand 203th place for Anguilla, Montserrat, American Samoa, i also can understand it for San Marino... But Papua ? It's real not the weakest FIFA team. Is it due to the reason that PNG was disqualified for 2010 World Cup ? --79.49.34.93 (talk) 14:18, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Well the only way a team can get ranking points is to either draw or win a match within the 4 year period considered for results. PNG have only played one game in that time, and they lost that, so they have 0 points, so they are joint last.  The lack of points is not a sanction for the WC disqualification, nor have they been banned from playing matches for 4 years, but at least those WC qualifying games would have given them the chance to earn a few points.  As far as I am aware, they are eligible to arrange and play friendlies that will count.  Kevin McE (talk) 17:29, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
 * PNG will play two friendlies later this year.Edgar (talk) 07:08, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps they ought to tell FIFA about that, they don't seem aware of it. Kevin McE (talk) 11:32, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
 * FIFA don't do 'sometime' :) Plans mooted to start Pacific Cup 'Meanwhile, he said PNG, Solomon Islands and Vanuatu would gear up for international matches sometime in September.'Edgar (talk) 06:11, 13 July 2009 (UTC)
 * So perhaps our anonymous friend who started the thread can look forward to PNG rising rapidly up the rankings over the next few months (unless, of course, they keep getting beaten in these games). Kevin McE (talk) 15:27, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Colours in table:why?
Is there any merit in the colours of the top 25 table? I could present a number of arguments against: it might raise accessibility issues for those with colour perception difficulties, it introduces colours that have no obvious association with the entities they represent, it causes an additional task for the monthly edit of the table, it is in the opinion of at least one editor unsightly, it is unnecessary as the team's confederation is already clearly indicated. I cannot imagine that there is any meaningful argument in favour of it apart from some people's appreciation of the aesthetic. So if you think it should be kept, present your case. Kevin McE (talk) 18:13, 18 September 2009 (UTC)


 * I actually find it easier to distinguish each conference by the color than by the conference name, though I have to agree with the majority of your points. (Though I would probably discount the accessibility issue until someone complained.) So if you want to take it out, I would agree. --69.198.54.241 (talk) 20:35, 29 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Belated comment. The colour background would only be a serious issue if it hindered the accessibility of the text. So possible issues with the previous version would have been the red background on blue links (conflicting colors) and blue/purple background on blue links (same colour grouping although the Wikipedia Main Page seems to have other ideas). The others being green and yellow/orange backgrounds would have been okay. Transaction Go (talk) 14:39, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

Honduras won the titleof the year??
I think that's a mistake, someone fix it please. There are some other errors. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.161.242.15 (talk) 20:55, 29 January 2010 (UTC)
 * No, Honduras did win team of the year in 2001. Check the source. – PeeJay 21:23, 29 January 2010 (UTC)

Regional strength calculation formula???
Does anyone know how regional strength is calculated? Only thing I could find was a vague description that it's confederation wins per match over the last three World Cups. However, how does that translate into actual point values? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.49.49.32 (talk) 02:18, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
 * There's a formula here, but it has its problems.--Edgar (talk) 10:29, 15 November 2010 (UTC)

How to obtain average rankings during the Assessment Period
Can anyone help?

I've created my own FIFA Rankings update to keep track of the positions of countries and have calculated the latest points tally up to the day before the World Cup and since the previous release in May 2010. Taking into account the match status, result point, opponent strength and regional strength by my own formulas I have calculated that Brazil, for example, accrued 782 ranking points for their results between the 26th May 2010 and the start of the World Cup. By the same calculation method I have devised that England gained 663 points during the same period.

However, how do I now add these ranking points to an updated table overall to include the average points gained during the assessment period? i.e. Matches played over the last four years (48 months) are included in the calculation, but there is a weighting to put more emphasis on recent results.

I hope someone can aid me in constructing this calculation method.

ComradeBT —Preceding unsigned comment added by ComradeBT (talk • contribs) 20:19, 26 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This link could be of some help. Detailed point totals examples  --Edgar (talk) 09:00, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Nigeria is First!
This page is commonly vandalized. Nigeria was put in 1st place by someone. I changed this, but the should be protection on this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.8.212.56 (talk) 12:06, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Ironically...if there was standard protection on it, the editor in question could still have done the bad change - but you couldn't have fixed it!. Thank you for your contribution. BTW, ESP is the code for Spain -- Club Oranje T 12:24, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

São Tomé e Príncipe and Papua New Guinea
The article states that one member, São Tomé and Príncipe, is not included in the rankings as they have not played a recognised international fixture since their 8–0 loss against Libya in 2003. The report for this match is located here. São Tomé and Príncipe were excluded in November 2007 on completing four years without a fixture, as rankings take into account only results over the last 4 years.