Talk:FIRST Global Challenge

Possible COI
From its tone and having been prepared offline and posted in 1 edit, this has the hallmarks of a commissioned work or someone with a vested interest. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 05:19, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Hi, I wrote this page. I'm being honest with you here - this wasn't prepared offline, I just never hit save until I was ready. I didn't want to get slapped with speedy deletion because i had written a stub or something. If there's something to improve with regards to its tone, I've tried it - if there's still something wrong, let me know, and I'll try to fix it. I was not, in any way, paid to write this, and I am not employed by anybody to do with FIRST global. In full disclosure, however, I did participate in the event - though I suspect that the regularly contributors of FIRST,  FIRST Robotics Competition and others were also parents, volunteers, staff or friends of those pages. Does the writer of this page have to be completely indifferent and neutral to FIRST Global? Sounds rather impossible. I have no vested interest, my interest is plain - that people know about this, and understand this, because as we've seen from Afghan girls visa problems making international headlines, to Ivanka Trump visiting, to being the front page of the Wall Street Journal, people are interested. Though this is my first article under this account, I've contributed to wikipedia before (until a different pseudonym -- I forgot the password) and my goal is only to contribute and get the word out. Please don't speedy delete this - just let me know specifically what needs to be fixed, and I will do my utmost in good faith to fix it. Thanks. Korfan12 (talk) 06:23, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a vehicle for "getting the word out" about anything. Please read WP:PROMO, which is policy. Jytdog (talk) 23:57, 22 July 2017 (UTC)


 * I have read it. We can rule out scandal mongering and opinion pieces, of which this is obviously neither. I have not, in the edits I've made, tried to advocate for FIRST Global - for example, I have not said it is "a revolutionary new initiative" or anything unsuitable of the sort. Correct me if I'm wrong. As for self-promotion, just as fans of FIRST edit the page on FIRST or FIRST Steamworks, I am a fan, trying in the most objective way to mirror the tone in which those other FIRST pages were written. I have not said it is better than something else, or said that it is incredible or ground-breaking. As for advertising, which I assume is your point of contention, I will try to outline in a headline below each of the edits I made and why I thought/think they are in order. Korfan12 (talk) 01:20, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

This page should not be speedy deleted because...
This page should not be speedily deleted because... (your reason here) --Korfan12 (talk) 06:11, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

given that similar pages exist for FIRST events, including FIRST, FIRST Robotics Competition, FIRST Lego League, FIRST Tech Challenge and FIRST Robotics Championship as well as pages for Dean Kamen, the founder of FIRST and FIRST Global, and Joe Sestak, the president of FIRST Global...

and given that FIRST Global has been in the news under numerous outlets, including The Guardian, The New York Times, the Washington Post, the Washington Times, BBC News, USA World News & Report, Fox News, CBS Evening News, and in numerous news organizations across the planet

and given that it was an event that welcomed over 700 youth from 150+ countries and was attended by the Governor General-designate of Canada, Julie Payette, the US Deputy Secretary of State, the president of the World Bank, the Special Advisor to the President, Ivanka Trump, and over 50 embassy delegations

this encyclopedia page may not be perfect, and may need cleaning up by a more experienced wikipedia contibutor, but it is relevant, significant and I've tried to diversify the sources to demonstrate that this isn't promotion of an event, but bringing into public knowledge through wikipedia as was done for other, similar robotics events.


 * Hey, thanks for creating this article. I agree that the topic is definitely notable, and I don't think you're a paid editor. I do see that Kudpung has a point in that the tone is a bit promotional in some areas, for example FIRST Global's mission is accomplished via the annual FIRST Global Challenge (maybe something like "FIRST Global hosts the annual FIRST Global Challenge"?). That also goes for some language like After years of figuring how best to accomplish Peres' challenge, and so on. Anyway, those are my overall thoughts. Thanks again for writing! Appable (talk | contributions) 06:42, 22 July 2017 (UTC)

Other FIRST matter in WP
I have left a note at Talk:For_Inspiration_and_Recognition_of_Science_and_Technology about how to relate this to all the other FIRST stuff. Jytdog (talk) 23:59, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Cheers. Korfan12 (talk) 01:04, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

501(c)3
Please find an independent source saying that FIRST Global actual has been granted 501(c)3 status by the IRS. It is extremely unlikely that you will be able to find it but I would be happy if you did. You can look at Guidestar, Charity Navigator, the IRS, etc. The reason is that it take time to actually get that status. The organization is only a year old. Jytdog (talk) 00:50, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Why would the primary source not be enough? Genuinely asking. In any case, Charity Navigator registers the International FIRST Association as a 501(c)(3) and though one particular source cannot specify it, it is obvious looking at the first.global website that FIRST Global is the brand under which the International FIRST Association operates. https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.profile&ein=811060352 Am I allowed to edit this now? At what point does it stop being an edit war? Korfan12 (talk) 01:11, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * That was helpful. Have updated.  "First Global"  is a dba.  OK.  Jytdog (talk) 01:39, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Other proposed changes
I kept some of this, but:


 * "muslm" is an adjective, like christian. It isn't capitalized.
 * this bit: in 2016, after thinking of the idea many years prior with Shimon Peres, who wanted to broaden FIRST's scope on a more international level.   The NJ Jewish News piece is actually from 2007 and says nothing about the FIRST Global competition.  The video is an hour and forty minutes and the first 15 minutes are nothing.  Nothing here supports the content.  I will add the video as an EL.

-- Jytdog (talk) 01:14, 23 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Kamen actually personally explains the bit with Shimon Peres in the video. How can I include that bit and reference it properly? Also, note, the video is only of the opening ceremony, not of the competition. Korfan12 (talk) 01:23, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Neither I nor any other sane person are going to listen to an hour and a half of opening ceremony for one line. If that is all there is, it is UNDUE anyway. Jytdog (talk) 01:42, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Language
The article on FIRST reads: "Founded by Dean Kamen and Woodie Flowers in 1989, its expressed goal is to develop ways to inspire students in engineering and technology fields. Its philosophy is expressed by the organization as coopertition and gracious professionalism."

My initial edit on FIRST Global was: "with the objective of promoting STEM education and careers in the developing world through Olympics-style robotics competitions."

Can you explain why I am wrong to emulate the article on FIRST here? Korfan12 (talk) 01:25, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * It is a really bad idea to model what you do based on other articles. There are huge swaths of fancruft in Wikipedia.   See WP:Other stuff exists.  I have added something along the lines of what you have been asking for.  But really, keep in mind WP:Avoid mission statements.  We are not here to promote anything - the organization has its own website where they do that and its own PR people. Jytdog (talk) 01:44, 23 July 2017 (UTC)