Talk:Fabrika automobila Priboj

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New sections and informations in article
I have added new sections and organized article to make it more understandable and to avoid confusion and mix of information that is not up to date and that could lead to misguiding readers. Please note that FAP is producer and have current production line so don't mix current and history. I have made history section which is available for information not related with current state of FAP and production lines. Also try to avoid adding information in current producing line based on some third sources without quoted FAP or Serbian government institutions. Who can better know what is producing but manufacturer himself. Adding from some other sources that are not related to government or military sources in Serbia for current production line are not reliable and references with that kind of possible misinformation must be held with reserve. FAP is government ownership and obliged to work with Serbia defense industries and civil sectors. And please don't say that for example Chrysler knows what is Boeing producing. Loesorion (talk) 00:36, 24 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It's unfortunate that so much of the new content was misleading or outright false.
 * Who says that the "FAP 18B was first domestically designed truck"? Isn't it a Saurer 5DF with a new badge?
 * Who says that new military trucks are domestic designs? Presumably somebody turning a blind eye to the same old Mercedes cabs, engines &c that FAP continued to build decades after Mercedes replaced them.
 * You say "Who can better know what is producing but manufacturer himself" - have you browsed FAP's website, where they've made so little change to the old Mercedes designs that they still have three-pointed stars? bobrayner (talk) 01:30, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Yes I have browsed FAP website and pictures are from old models not new. But there is a clear information about current models in production and their technical characteristics. And there is also in sections as references and have you read all references prior your edit or you had done edit after as you previously said I quote:"turning a blind eye..."? to references and their content. Further more in fap.co.rs for example there is not a single word about engines you have added in article as they are now in production I quote:"including the 30-year-old OM 352 and OM 403." And yes I still say:Who can better know what is producing but manufacturer himself? Maybe you know better but I don't and manufacturer don't. To who is to believe now to manufacturer and article with references or you? Big dilemma....Loesorion (talk) 03:58, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

RfC: History and current state of FAP?
Article is improved with many new information's, article organization is changed to be more productive and relevant sources where added. User object new portions of article without valid explanation? Loesorion (talk) 02:10, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

Here it is what I have added and how I had organized article in a goal to improve it prior deletion by user on basis it is "fictional". I used and added references. Prior my edit there where 5 references and after my edit there where 10 references.

History

Fabrika automobila Priboj (FAP) is a Serbian automotive manufacturer of trucks and buses founded in 1952 by decree of then Socialist Republic of Serbia government. On 30. oktober 1953 first trucks are produced based on licence from "SAURER-WERKE" models 4G i 6G (4 and 6 tonnes). In 1959 factory was extended and capacity growth on 3600 vehicles per year. In 1961 vehicles and engines manufacturers cluster "ITV" was formed with FAP as member. First domestically designed FAP vehicles where FAP 10B and FAP 15B introduced in serial production by 1965. FAP 18B was first domestically designed truck with Leyland engine licence build in FAMOS. In 1970 production, technical and financial cooperation contract was signed with Daimler-Benz. First product from FAP based on contract with Daimler-Benz was LP1113 and it was followed by MB 1213 and O 302. By 1975 new manufacturing plant with 50.000 square meters was build and 150 new machines installed. New projected capacity was 10.000 vehicles/year. Licence contract with Mercedes-Benc was extended in 1976. for production of vehicle from 12 to 26 tonnes weight. With developing domestic designs in collaboration with Mechanical faculty in Belgrade and its own research and design center many new vehicles are produced like FAP 1616, 1620, 1626, 1921, 1926, 2226 i 2626. With collaboration of FAP with VTI - Military Technical Institute Belgrade in 1978 it is developed special military vehicles FAP 2026/6×6 and it is produced in following years in different variants to satisfy various roles in military. FAP was producing many different chassis that where used in factory's in Zagreb, Skopje, Belgrade as bases for producing buses and other vehicles. In 1986 licence with Mercedes-Benc was extended for producing 12-26 tonnes gross vehicle weight. In 1984 FAP was again extending factory in newly build industrial zone "Manovica". By own design center trailers where developed from 20-70 tonnes gross weight. Until 1991 FAP had 160.468 square meters of factory space. Trucks and other FAP products were exported worldwide [1][2][3] Today

FAP offers many variants of vehicles, with different engines manufactured by Mercedes-Benz, Cummins, MAN and Famos,[4] FAP is producing vehicles for domestic use and export. Exported vehicles can be found in many countries worldwide like Egypt, Nigeria, Libya, Sudan etc.[5]

Curent Production Line

Current production line consist of military and civilian vehicles. FAP also builds chassis, trailers aggregates(axles, transmissions, spare parts, cabins, shipbuilding parts etc). All current produced vehicles have EURO 3, EURO 4 or EURO 5 engines type [6]. All vehicles listed here are in current offer of FAP.[7] Military Production line Military production line consist of special vehicles designed by VTI - Military Technical Institute Belgrade. Trucks FAP 1118 [8] FAP 2228 [9] FAP 3240

Civilian Production Program Lorries Trucks 1318 B/42 Engine type OM 904 LA EU3 or OM 904 LA EU5 1824 BD/48 4x2 Engine type OM 906 LA EU5 1828 BD/48 4x2 Engine type MB OM 906 LA EU3 1829 BD/48 4x2 Engine type OM 906 LA EU5 2235 BD/45 6x2 Engine type OM 457 LA EU3 2236 BD/45 6x2 Engine type ISL 8.9 EU5 360 Tractors 1836 BDT/32 4x2 Engine type OM 457 LA EU3 1840 BDT/32 4x2 Engine type OM 457 LA EU3 2636 BDT/32 6x4 Engine type OM 457 LA EU3 2636 BDT/32 6x4 Engine type OM 457 LA EU3

Dump trucks 1318 BK/36 4x2 Engine type OM 904 LA EU3 or OM 904 LA EU5 1418 BSK/36 4x4 Engine type OM 904 LA EU3 or OM 904 LA EU5 2024 BK/38 4x2 Engine type OM 906 LA EU5 2024 BSK/38 4x4 Engine type OM 906 LA EU5 2629 BK/32 6x4 Engine type OM 906 LA EU5 2630 BK/32 6x4 Engine type ISB 6.7 E5 300 2636 BK/32 6x4 Engine type OM 457 LA EU5 3036 BK/32 6x4 Engine type OM 457 LA EU5 3240 BKM/32 6x4 Engine type OM 457 LA EU5 or CUMMINS ISLe4 + 400 EU4 4140 BKM/45 8x4/4 Engine type OM 457 LA EU5 Buses FAP produces variety of buses: City buses, Suburb buses, Intercity buses, Minibuses. CITY BUS - A-537.4 CNG Engine type CUMMINS –CGe4-280 –Euro 4 CITY BUS A-537.3 Engine type MB OM 457 hla EU3 or MAN D2066LUH 11 EU4 SINGLE LOW FLOOR CITY BUS A-537.5 Engine type OM 457h LA EU5 SINGLE LOW FLOOR CITY BUS A-547.3 Engine type MB OM 457h LA EU3 or MAN D2066 LUH 12 EU4 MIDIBUS A-402 Engine type CUMMINS B180-20 Chassis There is also a chassis in production. They are used as bases for different kind of vehicles and special upgrades. CHASSIS A-918 Engine type Cummins B 180 - 20

Vehicles history production lines

List of vehicles which are no longer in production. Military List of produced military vehicles in past. FAP 13 13-14K 18 M930 1117 (4x4) 2026 (6x6) 2832 (8x8)[10] Civilian List of produced civilian vehicles in past. 4G 6G 10B 15B G1100 13 18 engine based on licence produce Leyland engine LP1113 MB 1213 O 302 1620 1621 1820 1823 1835 RBDT 2640 RBDT 1922 RBSK 2021 RBK 2023 RBK 2228 2635 RBDT 2628 RBK 2635 RBK 3035 RBK A-637 A-777 Loesorion (talk) 03:46, 24 June 2013 (UTC)

User bobryner is delating parts of artikle and adding I quote:"including the 30-year-old OM 352 and OM 403[ 2] The Mercedes NG cab is still used.[ 2] The Mercedes NG cab is still used" On manufacturers web there is no single model that now uses om 352 and om 403 engine or in last 7-10 years. Does manufacturer knows what is manufacturing now or some third source from 2009 knows better what is manufacturer doing in 2013?Loesorion (talk) 20:56, 27 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Actually, most of the text is found in the 3 sources added by Loesorion]. The text just needs to be wikified and corrected gramatically. [[User:FkpCascais|FkpCascais (talk) 03:35, 26 June 2013 (UTC)
 * That was based on a reliable independent source. If FAP's own website is sometimes - not always - shy about making copies of old Mercedes hardware, we should of course be careful about relying on them for silly claims that FAP is a cutting-edge independent manufacturer. bobrayner (talk) 21:44, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

Article proposed for delation without clear reason
User proposed delation without explanation citing only template.Loesorion (talk) 20:37, 27 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090208140432/http://ec.europa.eu/environment/air/transport/road.htm to http://ec.europa.eu/environment/air/transport/road.htm

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