Talk:Facial hair

Cultures content
Many cultures seek to pretend that women have no facial hair. Which cultures are these?

I don't know who wrote this. I don't particularly like the wording. Nevertheless, I think the writer means to infer that our culture, and all modern Western culures, like to make this claim. Women simply aren't supposed to have moustaches, and if they do, they secretly pluck out the hairs with tweezers. [[User:Whiskers|whiskers (talk)]] 00:03, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)


 * I took the liberty of removing the aforementioned statement. I think it is simply false, in the wording as it was presented. The page needs quite a bit of work and development. I will poke around with it off and on and it should develop with the efforts of all involved with it. [[User:Whiskers|whiskers (talk)]] 00:06, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Pictures
Here, again, as on the Moustache page, we have some pictures that could be improved upon. The guy with the Verdi beard is okay, I guess, but with a bit of hunting, one could find something more... er, neutral. Same goes for the other photo. I prefer something with historical value, say a famous man. There were beautiful moustaches in the past and men wore them with pride. How about a Civil War officer, or an early officer from the RCMP? [[User:Whiskers|whiskers (talk)]] 00:03, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Section needs work
I think the following section is self-explanatorily bad, and needs serious work.

-- A man's facial hair is often affectionately known as his whiskers (only mammals have true whiskers). However, many others shave their facial hair.

Alas, women rarely grow hair on their faces --

only mammals? men aren't mammals? (tee hee, all ninjas are mammals!) many others? other than what? other than men who refer to theirs as whiskers? the sentence makes no grammatical sense.. ALAS? not only is that not NPOV but it sounds like the writer was some kind of fetishist... no offense..

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Reason for Male Facial Hair?
Thought the article didn't address a key question, i.e., during human evolution, why did natural selection favor men with facial hair? Particularly curious considering how much hair we've lost compared to our primate ancestors. Anyone know the answer? &mdash;Joe Jarvis 19:23, May 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * I reckon it's something to do with the importance of facial characteristics in partner selection and the way hair can augment the face. The illusion of a stronger/broader jaw line and chin is often created by facial hair in much the same way as thicker eyebrows give the appearance of a heavier brow.  Males with stronger, more masculine, faces would have been perceived as more dominant, with the potential for getting a better share of the action either through female preference or the male pecking order in situations where the female had no choice.  I daresay hair on the rest of a mans body was also selected for because it made the individual look bigger.  As for why men haven't become giant puffballs of fluff over the generations... probably because if the hair gets too long it becomes un-manageable through grooming, and any potential benefit towards securing a mate or decent postition in society is lost by the owner's unclean appearance and the likelihood of them harbouring more than the usual share of parasites. Newsmare 21:14, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I must comment that this is a very poorly thought out and unscientific explaination. Though human males do almost invariably have more facial hair than their female counterparts, many human groups, e.g. australian aborigine, Native American melanesia, etc. have little to no facial hair at all. Furthermore, the evolutionary mechanism would be to evolve towards having less hair, given that our austrolepithicus and hominid ancestors had much more facial hair (and body hair) than modern humans, regardless of gender. Evidence points to the fact that over the millenia there has been evolutionary pressure on both female and males to favour less facial hair, but among some groups there has been significantly less pressure on males, Which poses a question with an answer yet to be proven.

I would have to disagree with one thing. australian aborigines actually do grow facial hair. When they get old it turns orange instead of gray. I'm pretty sure I'm talking about aboriginies although i could be wrong. Other than that I would agree.Hellomoto33 00:36, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Not sure about the last one. Aborigines are a diverse group, discrete and isolated communities spread across a continent for tens of thousands of years.  But many of them certainly do grow full, thick beards - as depicted on the Australian $2 coin.

Men who are full blooded 100% Native American (First Nations in Canada) cannot grow facial hair. Those that have facial hair likely have at least some other ancestry. The same gene that enables some men to grow beards better also causes male baldness, ironically, as what causes it reacts differently with different hair follicle types. So it is also very rare to find a full blooded Native American who's gone bald. [Though not impossible, as male baldness is not only caused by genetics but can also be caused by a health problem). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:3D09:167F:F0E0:7C01:FD14:2BB:4FA8 (talk) 22:09, 24 May 2020 (UTC)


 * A beard serves as a mane, which is vaguely protective, I suppose. It does not inhibit survival, nor apparently sexual selection, and as a gender differentiator and yet another sign of sexual maturity it may well be attractive.


 * Breasts swell during menstruation, and in the interests of reproduction larger breasts have been favoured by males. Or perhaps the males which favour large breasts are engaging in sexual intercourse more likely to bear children?  Positive feedback loop, more breasts.  Less body hair on females is attractive in many cultures, dating back to we-don't-know-when.  A less hairy female may be percieved to be younger, nubile, which is presently yet another word for "attractive" (formerly "suitable for marriage").  A degree of hairless thrown up by natural variation may somehow lead to more offspring, both sexes of whom may display or at least carry this trait.  More of the positive feedback loop.


 * Or it may just be an adaption to the heat - like the lengthening of limbs (compare with neanderthals). Maybe a combination of the two or more.  The motives may be inherent or instilled.  I'm certainly not the one to say.  It's all conjecture, and I'm not the first to suggest these.  Just throwing another rock in the pool... I hope I've been useful or interesting... --The Chairman (Shout me · Stalk me) 12:36, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

All of this forgets that not every evolutionary change confers a survival benefit. Some of merely unimportant side-effects which confer no advantage or disadvantage. Beards and body hair may be just such a thing: some people have it, some don't and, it doesn't really affect survival and reproduction.73.15.148.130 (talk) 02:06, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

However, genetic traits even bad have been shown to have benefits Tay-Sachs for example, if a person posses only one of the recessive traits, then they tend to have better spatial recognition, which is surprising as many people who inbred own farms and spatial recognition is highly important if you own a large swath of land. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:270:6F90:4D0A:232A:7BAD:E42 (talk) 10:09, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Stop developing
Added that facial hair doesn't stop developing at 18 and included footnote. I couldn't find a better source, but I'm 20 years old and I'm still developing facial hair. Arthur Curry (talk) 21:18, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Facial Hair Occurences around world
The occurence of facial hair seems more homogenous among Caucasians (any group ranging from North Africans to Europeans, to South Asians). But it seems that among Africans and Asians, there to me quite a clear distinction in terms of the climate: Africans and Asians from drier cliamtes typically seem much hairier that their tropical counterparts. In other words, Asians and African populations seem to have huge variation in terms of body or facial hair. Northeast Asians and Central Asians seem much hairier than Southeast Asians, for instance. And East Africans seem much hairier than West Africans. Is there a known reason why the tropics kills facial and body hair? User:Le Anh-Huy
 * I'm southeast asian and i dont grow visible hair at all in the cheeks


 * Compare Native American peoples (both north and south american native). I've never seen a picture of native Americans with much facial hair, though from what I can tell, the Inuit peoples have a little bit more in general. Otherwise, very little to facial hair regardless of climate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.171.214.155 (talk) 09:28, 29 April 2009 (UTC)


 * Expanding on this issue the link to "Native American with Facial Hair" points to an article of Native American Stereotypes that does not mention hair, mustaches, beards, shaving, etc. in any context.TeigeRyan (talk) 00:52, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Update and Note to 67.171.214.155: Actually I found an old version of that same page, and on this version of the page, it did show picture of noted Native Americans with facial hair, 4 of them in fact.TeigeRyan (talk) 06:20, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
 * I came here to find out about the differences in facial hair occurence and intensity around the world, but only found this. Was this in the article but was it deleted later? Why isn't there anything on this in the article? Podex (talk) 16:44, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Occurance
What determines the amount of facial hair - is it genetics, testosterone. Some men have a perpetual five o'clock shadow, while others can hardly grow any facial hair, or grow it inconsistently. Why is this?

Genetics, probably.

I'm Native American from the Southwest, Arizona. And to answer some of your questions about facial hair on natives, men do grow facial hair but not all over the place like a white man would or possibly any other race, except Asians..but i'll get to that in a few minutes. Native men are more bound to grow mustaches and peach fuzz, not full on beards. As for a head of hair, Natives in general can grow their hair pretty fast, i just had my hair trimmed a good 2 inches a month ago and it already grew back. I do have a step father who is Navajo from the southwest who is surprisingly less hairy than my biological father who is full of hair on his legs. And i cant help but think that it might have to do with climate since my real father is from the north, South Dakota. It is pretty much well known to be very cold up north in the winter, where as in the southwest its rather hot and we hardly get enough snow, so that probably explains why my step father is less hairy. Asians could pretty much relate to Natives, or vice versa. I have cousins in Utah who are half Natives and half Asians. Their father who is Mongolian, however can only seem to grow a mustache, relatable to my step father and biological. As for their hair, its naturally silky, thick and straight like a Native's would be. Soooo....yeah whenever i hear that Natives and Asians could be related i would think so also, height wise and genetically. Poeple mistake me for being an Asian sometimes but im full Native American. Same with a few of my friends. Yup i hope this was at least a good chunk of info. They are facts so yeah (^_^! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.36.47.164 (talk) 06:02, 14 July 2012 (UTC)

Length
What limits the length certain hairs (e.g. eyebrow and eyelashes) grow? Jigen III 09:24, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Every hair folicle has a limit of how long a hair it will produce. These are different in different places on the body. These limits are largely set by the genes, but are greatly infuenced by hormones. Bubba ditto 19:05, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes. Hair located at different parts of the body will grow at different speeds, and will be lost (falling out) at different rates.  Your eyelashes would not grow as fast as, say, your beard (if you are one who can grow one), and will typically fall out before they get too far.  We might see on the elderly unusually long hair at the eyebrows, from the nostrils, elsewhere?  Maybe the hormonal regulation has changed, maybe they spend less time standing in a stiff breeze. --The Chairman (Shout me · Stalk me) 12:45, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

uneven facial hair
i have some patches on my right side of the face with absolutely no facial hair then elsewhere its all stubbly. This isn't the same as the left hand side of my face, which has full facial hair and there is also more eyebrow hair. It's also an unusual pattern which repeats even to chest hair (the left side) and not surprisingly im left handed and footed. What is this? --86.18.156.77 22:20, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Intro language?
IMHO, this should be redone. Makes it seem like the article was written for aliens, especially " Many men develop facial hair in the later years of puberty, approximately between 15-18 years old. Many women also have some facial hair, especially after menopause, though typically much less than men" 152.105.64.11 08:30, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 * May I direct you to WP:CSB?--The Chairman (Shout me · Stalk me) 12:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Beard development
The article suggests that the beards of most men are fully developted before the early twenties, as "some men don't finish developing a fully adult beard until their early 20s or even later". I think that practically all beards continue to develop after the teen years. Therefore this phrase should be reconsidered. Especially the word 'some' is out of place. If a fully adult beard does not mean the full potential of an individual men, but e.g. full coverage, the article should say so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.45.105.41 (talk) 20:55, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Why is this article about the military?
This is an article about facial hair - why does the bulk of it concentrate on whether or not facial hair is permitted in the military throughout the world?! This is an interesting aside, but hardly needs to be the main focus of the article.

Types of facial hair, cultural significance and evolutionary development as a secondary sexual characteristic should surely be the main focus. I'd advocate cutting that whole long (and only mildly relevant) section about the military, or perhaps move it to a different page altogether. Gymnophoria (talk) 15:36, 14 August 2010 (UTC)

No Beards for Jehovah's?
That is just flat out wrong so I took it out, My pop had a 'stach for twenty years while he attended their Kingdom Hall and they never forbid him from growing one. They have some odd beliefs, but that is clearly not one.134.117.251.5 (talk) 23:58, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

"boys as young as 11 have been known to develop facial hair"
Full facial hair or just some growth? If the latter, there is nothing particularly notable about this since it can happen even younger than this; I had a moustache at about 8-9. 81.151.88.239 (talk) 22:03, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

Beard texture/color
Why is facial hair so much thicker/coarser than hair elsewhere on the head? Also, my hair is brown but my beard is black. One friend also has brown hair, another has light brown, but both have red beards. What's up with that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.59.145.14 (talk) 19:24, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Eyebrows, Eyelids, Nose hair also facial hair?
Hello, I have got a comprehension question: Is the hair on the eyelids, the eyebrows and the nose hair also facial hair? If yes, it should be mentioned in the article and in the {Human hair} box. If not, why is it not a type of facial hair even if it is in the face? --Pilettes (talk) 22:41, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Types of Facial Hair Styles
What about chin straps? or a mexican beard? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.202.211.40 (talk) 15:03, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

Proposed merge with Beard
Some details from beard should be merged with facial hair. serioushat 21:54, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Either way, considering that facial hair is present not only on males (though is present usually to a significantly lesser degree on females) and beards are usually present on late adolescent or adults males instead of on late adolescent or adult females, and a beard is a distinct type of facial hair, these two articles should not be merged completely; they should continue to exist as separate articles. Flyer22 (talk) 22:03, 7 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I see that you updated the tag to accurately reflect your above proposal. Flyer22 (talk) 22:06, 7 October 2013 (UTC)

Ethnic variation
Aren't there some ethnic groups whose men grow minimal amounts of facial hair? Is this discussed in any capacity? Obviously the absolute idea that Indian men can't grow facial hair is a myth (like here you can see the Chief in the Blackstone series has a bit of a goatee going on) but it seems to be one of the stereotypes about indigenous peoples of North America (although I don't see it mentioned there...). Is it perhaps, rather than a genetic thing, a result of some kind of practice. This Reddit post claims to convey an 1888 quote from Elijah Middlebrook Haines citing page 234 of this book as the source. In this case he claims a guy told him they do grow beards but in a limited way.

Are there any other cultures where the idea of men having limited beard growth is associated with them in culture? Ranze (talk) 19:38, 15 February 2016 (UTC)

definition and actual meaning
The meaning of beard and facial hair is commonly accepted to be one and therefore the article of beard and facial hair should be merged. these words are often used interchangeably. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.77.207.23 (talk) 13:36, 1 May 2016 (UTC)

hair growth rate
This article is still pretty stubby. What factors influence the growth rate of facial hair? For example, is it closely tied to testosterone levels? Please add such info to article.-71.174.175.199 (talk) 21:58, 23 June 2017 (UTC)

Styles of facial hair
The comparison image in this section has a couple of spelling mistakes (soul path, motton chops) and I'm not sure is of the quality required to belong here. --Lead holder (talk) 13:16, 17 January 2021 (UTC)