Talk:Faggot (food)

Merge recommendation
Brain's faggots is not a distinct enough topic of its own to warrant a separate article. Recommend merge into this article. Also citation needed to indicate that Brain's is indeed the best known brand. Bwithh 19:31, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

go ahead and merge.--I&#39;ll bring the food 01:34, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Merge. Having a separate article for Mr. Brain is like having a separate article for Birdseye frozen peas as well as peas.

Agree on the merge. Sockatume 18:14, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

Is there any evidence as to the regions stated?
I suspect they were & are fairly national, but people think of them as local. The earliest recorded use is in London (1851) Johnbod 21:18, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm originally from Yorkshire and had never heard of faggots until I moved to Cardiff, Wales, in 1968. Faggots were a hugely popular item at the students' union cafe due to their filling nature and cheapness! They were, as the article states, very similar to the "Savoury Ducks" we would occasionally eat in Yorkshire and on Tyneside. However I do remember "faggot stew" as being the main food eaten by the "low life" family portrayed in the 60's show by the comedian Arthur Haynes (the family who drank tea out of "jam" jars!). As this show reflected working class Londoners, this would indicate that faggots were known in the South East of England as the idea of using lowly faggots as the base for an even cheaper dish was obviously expected to raise a laugh. --MichaelGG 02:56, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

I'm from Lincolnshire and they were common up here when i was a kid - late 70's/early 80's - my family are from yorkshire and they seemed to think they were quite popular there

Also, most of the ones i have seen were more cylindrical than round Auto98uk (talk) 09:49, 14 June 2008 (UTC)
 * I take issue with the suggestion that faggots are typical of the Midlands only. First of, I never came across them when I lived there (which might just be a personal omission), but secondly faggots are widely seen as typical for Wales (Welsh faggots).  See List of cultural icons of Wales and Welsh cuisine for instance.
 * So either the article should add references to Wales or just drop the Midlands-reference altogether.
 * Sowhaddayall think? Thanks, Maikel (talk) 09:18, 12 June 2009 (UTC)


 * almôndegas don't have anything to do with faggots, it is made of meat, not liver and heart — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.244.137.218 (talk • contribs) 22:14, 6 December 2010

I grew up in the West Midlands and NEVER heard faggots referred to as ducks, so that bit needs editing! 51kwad (talk) 08:31, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

I've lived in the East and West Midlands. They are always faggots in the Black Country and, I suspect, the whole of the West Midlands. These are pretty well identical to the Welsh faggot. I was in Wales yesterday and Bridgnorth today, finding fairly dense faggots with caul in both. Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and Lincolnshire have "savoury ducks." Growing up in Derbyshire, I just did not understand what faggots were when they were advertised on ITV in the '60's. Savoury ducks contain a much smaller proportion of offal than the faggots further east.The herb flavouring, predominantly sage, is quite strong and a good quantity of breadcrumb means they are much lighter and less dense in texture than faggots. Dorothy Hartley uses the term savoury duck primarily, although she describes them as "forcemeat balls," and her recipe confirms the predominance of bread in the "duck" tradition, with crumbs making up 50% of the total weight. I have no doubt that faggots are well-known in the south as well as the west because I used to buy them occasionally when a student in Kent. I have even bought a mixture identical to faggots in north Germany, where it is fried, either sliced or crumbled, before serving. I'm sure Scots will be outraged by my suggestion that they form a continuum with the haggis: it is easy to find recipes for lamb "ducks" and pig haggis, so the overlap is fairly large. It's hard to believe that northers would fail to try oatmeal instaed of breadcrumbs in a meat pudding some time, especially since Elizabeth Ayrton has a Northumberland recipe for a stuffing that does just that. Sjwells53 (talk) 20:30, 2 November 2019 (UTC)

Recipe
Added recipe for Dad's Faggots but unsure if it is traditional. Any ideas?

jptdrake 05:13, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * "fennel seed, ricotta cheese, grated Romano cheese" er, nope. Not by a long chalk. It's even served in pastry. - X201 11:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

"African-American Country"
The article seems to indicate that faggots are a popular dish in "the African-American Country", which perhaps unsurprisingly has no accompanying article. Presumeably this is a (whilst amusing, silly) reference to the 'Black Country', a region in England, but someone with more knowledge than I should probably change this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.227.28 (talk • contribs) 17:51, 4 April 2008
 * Who knows, maybe it refers to Liberia 24.205.64.27 (talk) 22:31, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

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"Wrapped in kel"?
What's this kel supposed to be? Thanks, Maikel (talk) 13:22, 13 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Kel = kell = caul = caul fat. Maikel (talk) 22:18, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

"Kel" is NOT found in any online dictionary. It is NOT found if "googled". It is NOT an ENGLISH word in WIKTIONARY (it is Czech, Danish, Hungarian, Kurdish, Slovak and Turkish). "Kel" should be (preferably) defined in the article or linked to another page or eliminated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by N0w8st8s (talk • contribs) 00:05, 2 April 2010 (UTC)

So sad.
That this article has been locked. I knew it would happen one day. --Frank Fontaine (talk) 19:22, 3 October 2009 (UTC)


 * [User:MichaelGG|MichaelGG]] I know what you mean....its considered by many Welsh people to be the National dish of Wales...being in Cardiff you must have treied it in the market at " Roaches " although most people thing the best Welsh faggots and peas are sold in Pontypridd market...I always take my freinds there when I come home from denmark for a visit ! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.166.146.155 (talk • contribs) 13:01, 4 November 2009

Challenge
I have to challenge this article. I admit that the smallest book in the world is probably the "Welsh Cook Book", but having said that, if it existed, faggots would be in it. The Welsh name is 'ffagod'. To leave references to Wales from this piece and then lock it is nothing short of racisim. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bob.williams (talk • contribs) 17:34, 26 January 2010


 * Racisim?? Really??Flappychappy (talk) 16:09, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

Contradiction in text
Faggots are usually homemade and are to be found in traditional butchers' shops and market stalls.

I buy them from the shops in six packs called Mr Brains Faggots, I've never made them at home (ingredients are a bit hard to come by), have purchased commercial products from the butchers and market stalls... it unusual are they 'hand' made, sometimes they are square and not 'bundled', so not really faggots of meat, but still called faggots none the less.

Outside Britain?
Are these meatballs ever served outside Britain? If so, are they referred to by different names (to avoid confusion with the antigay slur, which is the only common meaning of the term in, for example, the US)? Stonemason89 (talk) 22:09, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I was wondering that too, that photo looks amazing & I'd love to find that dish here in the US as well! Hanz ofbyotch (talk) 22:15, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

This is a common combination in the Black Country area of the West Midlands, especially so since the 18th century industrialisation onwards, but also for hundreds of years prior.
This is a good example of the confusing langauge and lack of clarity which all too often inhabits Wikipedia.

"This is a common combination in the Black Country area of the West Midlands, especially so since the 18th century industrialisation onwards, but also for hundreds of years prior."

Somebody who is not a native English speaker will have trouble with this wordiness.

Was the faggot a "common combination" from "the 18th Century industrialisation onwards"?

Or was it "for hundreds of years prior"?

It could be both. If so, say so. Just give a date range.

Somebody who isn't a native english speaker should use the wiki of their native language if they get confused. when writing for the english language wikipedia, non-english speakers or non native speakers are not a concern or priority. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.187.212.87 (talk) 20:00, 11 February 2015 (UTC) It clearly means that it was used for hundreds of years, but since the 18th century it was used a lot more. If anything, a slight re-writing of what I have would be logical. 180.200.150.113 (talk) 09:22, 25 March 2015 (UTC)

Mr Brains
Shouldn't Mr Brains frozen faggots be mentioned in the article? as surely they must be the most commonly sold faggots being stocked in every supermarket? or are there rules against mentioning specific brands on wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7D:DA42:200:71E4:C8EB:C640:6AEE (talk • contribs)
 * Personally I wouldn't do this, because although you're right that Mr Brain's are the best known brand in a British supermarket, it isn't encyclopedic to mention this and could be seen as advertising or unfair on the less well known brands. In this source in the article, a person is holding up a box of Mr Brain's faggots.--07:49, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Advertisements
Re this edit: It was the Somerfield advert, as reported here. Rodney Bewes also did a similar advert, shown here.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 14:09, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * I wasn't questioning the Somerfield-ad statement itself (which is why I didn't remove it) when I made that edit; I was just trying to flag the specific source as not having the relevant information, meaning that a better source was required. The BBC News article is definitely better, but sources with more details would be even better (I could do it when I find some time to research it properly). Regarding your comment on this edit, I'm confused: I looked again, and I don't see a "Harm and Offence" section. Are we talking about the same document/source? TastyChikan (talk) 15:37, 28 June 2018 (UTC)
 * As far as I can see, it was the Somerfield advert in July 2004 that set off this complaint. There is another source in the Daily Telegraph here. There doesn't seem to be much confusion. The "Harm and Offence" complaint to Ofcom says "A commercial featured a husband challenging his wife’s repetitive routine of a set meal for each day of the week. While he wanted lasagne, he was told that, as it was Friday, he was to have faggots. He responded: “I’ve nothing against faggots, I just don’t fancy them.”"-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 17:23, 28 June 2018 (UTC)


 * : OK, my mistake; the problem must have been that the search function in the PDF document wasn't working properly in the browser, so I couldn't find the Somerfield section, but it is, indeed, there. This renders this whole thread pointless, so I suggest deleting/archiving it, unless you have any objections, since it's just cluttering and adding no real value to the Talk page. TastyChikan (talk) 18:16, 12 July 2018 (UTC)


 * What interested me here is that Rodney Bewes did a commercial with the same joke (see above) but it didn't lead to complaints. This commercial apparently dates from 1978, which is long before the era of political correctness. By 2004, it should have been spotted that an innuendo with the word "faggot" would lead to problems. Bewes wrote the commercial himself.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 05:07, 13 July 2018 (UTC)

New advertising ban
A cafe in Newport, Wales was banned from advertising on Google, apparently because they used the word "faggot" as a culinary term. There is no direct confirmation of this, but it looks like another example of the Scunthorpe problem where a filter blocks all uses of the word. I've decided against adding this to the article because there are already clearer examples given.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 06:05, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


 * And again here on Facebook in February 2021. I've decided against adding this because it would not add much to what the article already says.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 13:11, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Number eaten by gluttonous man
You say 20 but the article you cite states a dozen, which is 12. Ipaul83 (talk) 19:25, 13 October 2019 (UTC)


 * ✅ The source says "dozen savoury ducks".-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 06:55, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

Misinterpretation in the song "The Great Deceiver"
I think that in the "Double Meaning" section should be added the situation with King Crimson's 1974 song "The Great Deceiver".

The song opens with the line "Health food fa**ot with a bartered bride" which describes a meatball and not a person of a homosexual sexual orientation.

The writers weren't aware of the connection though until the backlash and didn't even mean to say anything bad. (From an interview with the members) Brunoancic31 (talk) 11:46, 21 November 2021 (UTC)


 * This needs reliable secondary sourcing to comply with WP:POPCULTURE. It doesn't seem to have picked up a lot of coverage. There are a several incidents above that I didn't add to the article, because they repeated the basic point, which is that the word can be misinterpreted. A British person usually knows that faggots can be food, but Americans (particularly those writing obscenity filters for the internet) don't. King Crimson are a British rock band, so they probably didn't realise that this problem can occur across the pond.-- ♦Ian Ma c M♦  (talk to me) 14:49, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Redirect to Bouquet garni
Why is there a redirect to the article for Bouquet garni? The article for that doesn't mention the word faggot anywhere so I fail to see the reason why it should be there. If no one is opposed I'll remove it.  Eric food  (talk &#124; contribs) 21:24, 31 July 2023 (UTC)


 * I don't see any opposition so I removed the redirect.  Eric food  (talk &#124; contribs) 18:53, 14 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I believe it was because its similar in looks to the fasces, or sometimes referred to as the faggot. I agree it's unnecessary though. commemorative (talk) 14:21, 27 September 2023 (UTC)